Mesa Newbie - I just purchased an F-100 Head

[jpoprock]

Hey everyone. I copied this over from a Harm Cent forum that I just posted in. Wanted as much feedback as posssible. I just purchased a Mesa F-100 and use it with an Avatar 2x12. My cab came as a 3/4 closed back, but I purchased another back for it to make it closed. I use an 83 Les Paul Std w/ a JB bridge PU as my primary guitar, but I also have a 69 SG Special, and just ordered a Fender Am Deluxe V neck! I still have my Marshall JCM900, but planned on selling it to pay for this Mesa. Here are some of my thoughts after playing it a little bit. This is cut from an email that I sent to my buddy/bandmate/guitar player this AM:

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I stayed home and rocked on that amp for 30min this AM. One thing that I remembered reading about was that this amp is not a "high gain" amp. The Marshall would kind of be considered more of a higher gain amp, with the SL-X being even more punishing.

The Marshall's distortion is smoother and much warmer. Which is funny cuz it has the same exact tube set up! HA! Anyway, the Mesa isn't as warm and doesn't have that nice warm (perfect) type distortion (which I KNOW that Mesa's are like Marshall's). BUT, after playing the Mesa for a while, you kinda get used to it. I think it will do a really good job cutting thru the mix. I will say that the amp is VERY VERY responsive to the slightest little thing. If you back your vol knob off a little, the tone changes quite a bit. Which can be very cool.

So, I messed and messed with the distortion for a while and got a pretty good tone. A nice "rock" tone I guess. It's not warm and creamy like the Marshall, but I think it's pretty good. The main thing with the Mesa distortion, and this is NOT a good thing, is that to my ears, it's fatiguing. There is this "harsh bite" that just doesn't go away. The louder I turned it up, the more I thought, "what IS that?? It hurts my ears!" The Marshall doesn't do that. The louder it gets, the creamier it gets. HA! And with the Mesa, it helps if you dial out the highs and mids a little. But it seems odd to me that in order for it to sound "good", i have to have the gain on about 2PM highs on about 10AM and the mids on about 10AM, and the bass at like 3AM. So, what I'm saying is... EQ is part of it, but it's also the nature of that distortion I think. It just has a bite to it that won't go away. So.. that is BAD. But I think once I get into a live sitch, that Mesa will cut thru well, and the sounds I'm hearing now will probl get filtered out. I just don't know.

I guess it could be the tubes too, but they have a nice orange glow to them. I think they are fine. So, unless I want to venture on a tube changing oddessy, I'll never know! I also have no clue how old the tubes are, if they NEED changed, how to tell, etc. And maybe new tubes won't make a huge diff?

Then I switched to the clean sound... and it was bonerville!! I may change my mind in the "real world" but it is really really nice. Warm, rich, lots and lots of body, nice top end, etc. It's really sweet. If I experience that the distortion sounds really good on stage and blends well with the band, then I think I can be totally satisfied with it. I just need to always remember to never play my Marshall cuz it'll erase everything I've convinced myself of regarding the distortion. HA!!

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So, keep in mind that I play in a cover band that does anything from Motown to Fall Out Boy and everything in between. Funk, Disco, Classic Rock, Modern Hits, 80's classic pop hits, etc. So, I don't need a high gain amp. I need an amp that would sound good playing middle of the road rock ala Aerosmith/Tom Petty/Skynyrd/Zep. I THINK this amp will do it. According to Harm Cent reviews, etc this amp is supposed to have this great low end, perfect distortion, etc. But this just goes to show you and everything is totally subjective!! The perfect distortion to you could be crap to me. The ONLY reason I bought this amp was because my JCM900 is a one trick pony. It's distortion for my needs is perfect. I simply LOVE that amp. BUT, it's one channel, and doesn't clean up all that great. If I were in an original band that played rock all the time, then great! But I need to cover a lot of ground halfway convincingly. So, I needed a two channel amp that had a good clean sound. I figured I've give Mesa a shot. But so far, I'm not all that blown away. I think it's a really nice amp, etc, but I'm not exploding with joy either.

I was also wondering how much more of a diff it would make if I bought a 4x12 cab to use with it? OR, what if I took the closed back off my cab and went back to the partial opened back? That partial opened back didn't sound all that great with the Marshall because it kind made it sound slightly mid/boxey sounding. Typical of a 2x12 for sure. You can't beat the "thrust" of a 4x12 for sure. I know some guys who play their heads thru 4x12 end up thinking "Wow, that sounds much much better". So, I just don't know.

I'm hoping you guys can give me some really good advice!

Thanks! Jason


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[Brewski]

Hi jpoprock, Mesa's take a little time to dial in the tone that you think is good. The treble is the most responsible for these changes and the other dials are intertwined with creating an overall tone. Have you looked at the factory settings and dialed from there? Just a small adjustment will make a difference. Spend some time dialing and it will pay off.

Also, did you buy the amp used? I have an F-50 combo that I had bought used. It had a noisy and flubby distortion, at first, and it made a huge difference when I put in fresh tubes.

As far as speaker tone, I'm not sure what speakers you're running in your Avatar. That would make a difference, but if you've used it with other heads and liked the tone, don't change it. I also have a 2x12 open back cab. It has one Vintage 30 and one G12H30. Closing the back of your cab will give you a little more bottom end and will make the sound more focused or directional. A 4x12 will move more air, so it would add more fullness and volume.

Good luck and welcome to the board.

 

[jpoprock]

As far as speaker tone, I'm not sure what speakers you're running in your Avatar. That would make a difference, but if you've used it with other heads and liked the tone, don't change it. I also have a 2x12 open back cab. It has one Vintage 30 and one G12H30. Closing the back of your cab will give you a little more bottom end and will make the sound more focused or directional. A 4x12 will move more air, so it would add more fullness and volume. quote]

Thanks Brewski. I have the exact same cab as you, except I closed mine up just for a more focused sound. The open cab for me, and on the types of stages I play, produced too much mid for my tastes. I'm not looking for some kind of super enveloping low end thump or anything. But something warm and full. Maybe a 4x12 IS the answer? I dont' think adding another 2x12 will give the same sound as a 4x12 would, but I dunno.

Also, I did buy the head used, but it's mint. Something in my mind tells me that it's got EL34's in it. but I can't be sure. I'll look tonight. It's supposed to have 6L6's in it I believe. I'm not sure which produces more warmth.

Speaking of tubes, do you guys like to stick w/ the Mesa tubes, or are the JJ's really cool? I've used them before, and liked them, but never in a Mesa. Then again, I'm not a tube snob and can't say for sure I'd hear the subtle diff's that they produce.

Thanks guys!

j

 

[Brewski]

The 4x12 will give you more low end wallop. When I replaced my tubes, I went with JJ's. I really like them, as do a number of folks. I can't and won't speak for everyone, though.

You should have 6L6's which give you a more Fenderish warm tone. EL34's are more Brit sounding. If you have EL34's in it, replace them with the 6L6's. I think that will solve a number of issues. The amp is designed to run the 6L6's, rather than El34's. If it came with EL34's in it, that could explain a lot.

Good luck with it, once you get it dialed, it should give you some great tones.

 

[jpoprock]

Quick thing about tubes... so, I can buy a matched set of JJ's for the Mesa, and literallly just pull the old and put in the new in the proper postions and that is it? Instant new tubes?? Because you don't have to rebias... that's almost too good to be true!!

I also wonder if I should get the high gain tubes from JJ rather than the std ones? Thanks!
Jason

 

[Brewski]

Talk to Bob at Eurotubes and he'll fix you up with a set for your amp. They will be plug and play. If you tell him what amp you have and what kind of tone you are looking for, he'll give you a recommendation on whether to go high gain or not. At the time that I was ordering my tubes, he offered a low gain "kit" which included an ECC803S instead of all EC83S's on the preamp tubes. I am currently playing more cleans than high gain.

He'll probably fix you up with a set of 4 Matched 6L6's, and then you go from there.

 

[jpoprock]

If I provide a serial tonight, can you guys tell when my amp was made? Thanks!

Jason

 

[jpoprock]

Well, you won't believe the weekend I've had. HA! So, I went to Guitar Center and thought I'd play their F-100 head thru a 4x12 to see if that changed my mind. It didn't. I plugged into the Dual Recto that was next to it, and it was heaven. HOWEVER, after playing that DR for a while, I realized that the tone was super great, but almost too modern. It would be great if you wanted all the covers we play to sound like the Foo Fighters. HA! But it's a nice nice head. The F-100 sounded almost like "rat pedal" distortion. Very ratty and hot. I just didn't like it.

I spied a used/mint Marshall Lead1960a cab there and played thru that a while. I decided that I had to have it, and got it for $450. It's dead mint too. I'm really excited about it. So as I'm leaving the store, I saw this Marshall 6100LM on clearance for $1100. I asked the guy about it, and he said it's their 30th anniv head and kinda like all the great Marshall's rolled into one. I noticed it had all kinds of advanced features on it, plus a clean channel, crunch, then lead. So, I plugged it in to try it out. I immediately went to the clean channel and was quite impressed. For a Marshall, it was outstanding and very usable for MY needs. Not as good as the F100 clean, but still fine for me. Then the crunch channel... it was more gainey than I had expected it too be, but it could be dialed in. Then the lead... it was warm, full, and pure Marshall. I was simply in hog heaven. It took me literally 30 seconds to realized, "My god, I love the Marshall sound". I played with that F-100 for HOURS and never loved it once (except the clean). So, like the crazy fool I am, I bought that Marshall! HA! Now that I've had time to investigate it, I might have paid a little too much for it. They had $1250 in it, so they lost money on the deal. For some reason, they couldn't get rid of it. The sales guy said that since it's 30th anniv, it will surely be worth more in the future. It's really just worth whatever the user thinks it's worth. I think it's **** near perfect for me, so I guess it's worth it. You don't see them on Ebay a lot, so it could be an amp that one day people will go, "Man, that was the amp to have!". So, who knows! I know that it sounds like a JCM800, a 900, and it has a great clean. Perfect.

Ok so... I get to our gig with my Gibson's in tow, new 4x12, Marshall, and F-100. I played thru 2 sets with the Marshall and was loving it. Then for the 3rd set I announced to the guys, "Well, I guess I'll fire up this F-100 for this last set just to say I actually DID gig with it before selling it. That way you guys can hear for yourself the worst sounding distortion ever!". I fired the amp up and off we went.

"Hmm... this amp sounds pretty good"

"This amp sounds **** good!"

"I can't believe this amp sounds this good! It didn't sound like that at home or in the store!"

"Gone is that harshness that I heard and it cuts thru great, just like that guy on the forum said it would!"

"Time for a clean sound... HOLY CRAP that clean is the business!!"

"Back to distortion... the distortion is a bit angry sounding no matter what I do, but it's a good sound no question."

"Great, now I have a SERIOUS dilemma!!!!"

"Maybe I'll suck it up and keep both amps"

So.. that's how my thought process went. I play again this weekend, and it's in a club that can handle volume well. I'm going to bring both again, this time I'm going to play the Mesa for 2 sets, and the Marshall for the 3rd. BOTH amps are killer, and both sound different. I just don't know what to do.

My very experienced buddy/bandmate had some things to say. He said he thought the Marshall was the safest bet, but that the Mesa did sound great. My Marshall emits a slight "hum" though no matter what. He thinks it's no biggie and that I shouldn't worry about it. I think it's something in the power section that is causing it. But the tonality of the amp is pure creame.

Couple things to consider are, I can take the Marshall back for a full credit within 30 days. I did pay a little more than I should have for it so that is an option. I can then wait and try and score one on Ebay later if I want to, and at a cheaper price.

The nice thing about the Mesa is that I can change tubes and never have to worry about rebiasing. With the Marshall, if I want to change the tubes, I pretty much HAVE to have it rebiased right?? Or can you just put new tubes in and NOT have it rebiased? It's a tough call. I just don't know!

Or like I said, I can suck it up and keep both and alternate weekends with them and be REALLY happy, but broke! HA!!

HELP!!

J

 

[strumminsix]

I've found that I *LOVE* my Mesa when performing live or with others but when playing alone I'm just happy with it.

Something to consider is the hum. It might not be that bad when you are unmic'd but it may turn into big problem when mic'd.

 

[LPClassic]

In my case I would keep both but I'm a gear junkie...hehe anyway, I remember reading some problems with the 30th anniversary that you may want to check first, maybe that's the reason the amp did not go, also the price maybe a little high but if the amp is good and you like it...as you said they are hard to get.
Congratullations on having 2 great amps, let us know what happens on the next play.

 

[Elpelotero]

a rare breed...marshall fan who likes mesa =). the smartest of all!

 

[Tonestack]

I work on a lot of amps, and can say without hesitation that any Marshall built after 1990 is a piece of junk. In fact, JCM 800s built after 1985 (the ones with horizontal input jacks) are junk compared to the pre-1985 Marshall amps. In order to ramp-up production and cut cost, Marshall started board mounting the pots (a.k.a. controls) and jacks on their amps in 1985, and the build quality has steadily gone down hill over the years. The input jacks and pots on Mesa amps are chassis mounted and connected to the board via flying leads. This type of construction, while not as robust as hand-wiring using turret or eyelet boards, is significantly more durable than what Marshall is doing with their amps. If you have to have a Marshall, purchase a pre-1985 model.