Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

[Wayno]

Should have turned up some. See how in the insidious arachnid threat would have dealt with extreme mode, Pentode, max output volume, full power, 90w Hetfield settings. If the spider doesn't then immediately vacate, you may then have a new drinking buddy/potential bandmate that the missus can't stand to have in the house..

That proper made me (and the missus) laugh. We all have that drinking buddy/band mate that she don't like having round, you know, the bad influence one! Time of year for the big boy spiders to come in to the house here in England too unfortunately for her, especially where I live in deepest darkest Norfolk.

If only I could get a window of opportunity where both the missus and littleun and the neighbours are out for a few hours so I can really crank the beast up and see what she's really capable of now I'd be in heaven.

 

[Markageddon]

That proper made me (and the missus) laugh. We all have that drinking buddy/band mate that she don't like having round, you know, the bad influence one! Time of year for the big boy spiders to come in to the house here in England too unfortunately for her, especially where I live in deepest darkest Norfolk.

If only I could get a window of opportunity where both the missus and littleun and the neighbours are out for a few hours so I can really crank the beast up and see what she's really capable of now I'd be in heaven.

Absolutely..! hahah At least its arguable that the ones with only two legs are easier for her to deal with..!!
And yes some of those other buggers are getting pretty big.

Might be an idea to book a studio/rehearsal pit, so you can open the taps. (As Brundle backflips into the North Sea on the 1st heavy palm mute) :twisted:

 

[Wayno]

I'd love to book a rehearsal room, only, work pressures, credit card/mortgage pressures, few remaining hours when I'm not at work to be with wife and one year old daughter pressures dictate otherwise I'm afraid. However though, in true blues brothers style we should be "getting the band back together!" so I count the hours until we can rehearse at our old space again ( singers office so it's free and out in the country side with no neighbours) then I'll be like a pig in sh!t. Hopefully the wife will allow me a couple hours on a weekday evening to slope off for my fix every once in a while. Some big arse spiders out there too! Hopefully get some real life in the full band mix tones for you guys too, see how she really punches through like your trailer gig, which sounded quality by the way.

 

[Markageddon]

I'd love to book a rehearsal room, only, work pressures, credit card/mortgage pressures, few remaining hours when I'm not at work to be with wife and one year old daughter pressures dictate otherwise I'm afraid. However though, in true blues brothers style we should be "getting the band back together!" so I count the hours until we can rehearse at our old space again ( singers office so it's free and out in the country side with no neighbours) then I'll be like a pig in sh!t. Hopefully the wife will allow me a couple hours on a weekday evening to slope off for my fix every once in a while. Some big arse spiders out there too! Hopefully get some real life in the full band mix tones for you guys too, see how she really punches through like your trailer gig, which sounded quality by the way.

That sounds worth holding out for. Your patience will reward you for real.
Those lucky spiders. 'The spiders from (Earth and blasted all the way to) Mars'

Thanks mate. Yeah Brilliant please do! As many different setups and angles on these mods as we can get. Especially with the diverse types of tubes being used, and cabs, personal settings etc

I may be bringing out the V:25 tommorrow to see if it will do for a live session without micing, through the same cab config as the other clip.
Will post clips of how it went. Even if I end up using the 90watter again.

 

[bandit2013]

I just got a few new toys to add to my mic locker. SE Voodoo VR1 Ribbon mic and a dual channel Cloudlifter. Have to try it out and see how much difference there is. I may even run the EV RE320 or the Shure SM57. I have never used a ribbon mic so not sure what to expect. May need to get out the reactive load box. I was planning on comparing the Roadster to the JP-2C and would not take much effort to drop in the Mark V.

 

[Markageddon]

Here it is: The first time i'd played live with the V25 post swapout.

1x12 and 2x12 no mic or Cabclone, 90 degrees off axis due to cramped space, and where the majority of the crowd were at at this point. Balanced against the other chap's AC30 again with actually faces the cam here.
Room size was like 40x30ft maybe..with open passages to other rooms.

Had to turn it down a little too, as it was blasting em all at the beginning. Twas real loud. That drummer doesn't mess about..!! And the bassist had a nice big fat loud sound happening too.
Another tribute to the Mark's ability to fit in and cut through in any situation.
Im convinced that I can get it louder and clearer too as I am a bit of a noob with the Nova im using in the loop to control muting, and that the settings can be tweaked better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRN7tQv_uTE

 

[Wayno]

Here it is: The first time i'd played live with the V25 post swapout.

1x12 and 2x12 no mic or Cabclone, 90 degrees off axis due to cramped space, and where the majority of the crowd were at at this point. Balanced against the other chap's AC30 again with actually faces the cam here.
Room size was like 40x30ft maybe..with open passages to other rooms.

Had to turn it down a little too, as it was blasting em all at the beginning. Twas real loud. That drummer doesn't mess about..!! And the bassist had a nice big fat loud sound happening too.
Another tribute to the Mark's ability to fit in and cut through in any situation.
Im convinced that I can get it louder and clearer too as I am a bit of a noob with the Nova im using in the loop to control muting, and that the settings can be tweaked better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRN7tQv_uTE

You should post this clip in all the 25 and 35 watter threads complaining about them not being able to hang with a live band! Cutting through nice and clear to me. I've had my problems in the past cutting through the mix but a big part of that is my habit of cutting too much mids. What can I say, I am a full on self confessed Metallica nut and proud of it too! Old habits die hard and I'm slowly getting more mids into my tone as I mature haha.

 

[Markageddon]

Thanks Wayno. You're absolutely right: I had the mid slider up to just below half way. The lows were still respectable and big.
Traditional M shape with big 80. Presence at 3pm. Scoopage would have been suicide. (less so if the 90w was wheeled out :twisted: ) The low and high mid sliders being high compensate well for a fair bit of scoop on the middle mid slider, still giving that massive sound.

Got a clearer vid uploading on one of the tunes taken with a different mic nearby position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAOza60dRbA A bit compressed, but at least its a better angle.

 

[Wayno]

I just got a few new toys to add to my mic locker. SE Voodoo VR1 Ribbon mic and a dual channel Cloudlifter. Have to try it out and see how much difference there is. I may even run the EV RE320 or the Shure SM57. I have never used a ribbon mic so not sure what to expect. May need to get out the reactive load box. I was planning on comparing the Roadster to the JP-2C and would not take much effort to drop in the Mark V.

Looking forward to hearing this. I'm sure I've read before that ribbon mics can be sensitive to high sound pressure levels though so worth bearing in mind. I'm sure you know what your doing though so please don't take that as condescending. Love hearing these comparing vids as even though I may love the tones people get from various different amps they also always seem to reaffirm how good the Mark V can sound as well.

 

[bandit2013]

Basically the SPL rating if specified as such is a measure of performance of a microphone at the point where signal distortion becomes a factor. SM57 only lists the sensitivity and does not specify maximum SLP at which distortion is evident. Some manufactures to list the SPL and will generally be below 155 dB.
The Audix i5 is rated at 140dB so I would assume the Sennheiser e609 and the Shure SM57 would be similar. The SE Voodoo VR1 is rated for less than 0.5% THD @1kH at 135dB SPL. It is a robust and simple mic. Only warning I have been aware of with Ribbon mics is the use of 48V phantom power, that will literally kill a ribbon unless it has a built in preamp that requires the phantom power. The Cloudlifter is exactly that, a preamp for ribbon mics that requires phantom power to operate. It also works great with dynamic mics too. What is unique about the SE ribbon mic is the frequency response 20Hz to 20kHz that is relatively a flat response and no coloring the tone like I have suffered with the SM57. Most Ribbon mics had a high frequency roll off that is quite steep. After the first trial with it I was impressed. I was considering adding the recording to my soundcloud but want to do it again with the Mesa Vertical cab and Horizontal cab in parallel. The EV loaded 412 was not bad and sounded much closer to the real deal but I can get more depth out of the 212 cab than any of the 412 cabs.... Also if I can get the mics in closer for that in your face grind I have achieved by objective. For some time I have been trying to get that dark and sinister tone to appear in a recording without sounding honky or droned out...that is where the Ribbon mic comes in to play, they lack the proximity effect as you get with a dynamic, plus the sensitivity at lower levels is as good as a condenser. Quite a versatile mic. I did get the dual channel Cloudlifter preamp just in case I get another ribbon mic. May opt for the 4 channel cloudlifter to use with the drum kit. I think I see the light.....

 

[bandit2013]

I did a quick recording but I also included the Roadster first (CH1 and CH4) followed by the JP-2C (all channels) and then Mark V CH1 and CH3 (mkIV setting). Tubes in the Mark V are the Beijing 12AX7 (square foil getter) in V1,3,5,6,7. V4 is the JAN/Phillips 12AT7 and in V2 I think is a Mullard CV4004 (you will not hear that as I did not play through CH2). I was trying to get that dark tone from the Roadster on the JP-2C and I just dialed in what I though sounded good with the Mark V.


http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=73939

 

[Markageddon]

I did a quick recording but I also included the Roadster first (CH1 and CH4) followed by the JP-2C (all channels) and then Mark V CH1 and CH3 (mkIV setting). Tubes in the Mark V are the Beijing 12AX7 (square foil getter) in V1,3,5,6,7. V4 is the JAN/Phillips 12AT7 and in V2 I think is a Mullard CV4004 (you will not hear that as I did not play through CH2). I was trying to get that dark tone from the Roadster on the JP-2C and I just dialed in what I though sounded good with the Mark V.


http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=73939

They all sound great. The Mark V comes off real well too. Nice one.

I now imagine a dual rig of Mark V and Roadster as potentially the biggest sound ever.

 

[bandit2013]

I may replace the recording eventually as I am experimenting with the new mic and will have to eliminate the condenser mics as they contribute to the sharpness in the recording. The room acoustics and the drum set reverberation of the amp ruined the recording to some extent.

Running either the JP-2C with the Roadster, or Mark V, or the Mark V and JP-2C at the same time is amazing. Also I did not manage or adjust the settings until after I recorded the JP-2C and realized the first run did not have the attenuator on. Clean channel part was straight without attenuation. That would explain the differences between the three amps as it appears the Roadster was weaker or softer when it actually is not. It is obvious I am no expert at recording anything but will figure it out the more I do it. Some of the sonic content seemed to have been missing. Once I get the ideal I will redo this simple comparison and may even include the before and after effect of the Mark V....If I am eager enough to run the Roadster with all stock tubes (have V1 and possibly V2 as Russian [Svetlana or Mullard CV4004]) I think a stock for stock comparison would be better. This is what you get deal.... JP-2C is all stock tubes as it will remain that way for a while, why change what is already sounding good? I only do a tube roll because there is one or more characteristics I cannot evade (too dark or ice pick).

 

[Markageddon]

why change what is already sounding good? I only do a tube roll because there is one or more characteristics I cannot evade (too dark or ice pick).

Couldn't agree more.
Well said.

This is the reason I feel my search is over, after this mod.

 

[bandit2013]

I have come to terms with a few things.... what to do next? Not really sure. I often question why I even bother....

Kudos to Apeman for the inspiration for the Mark V as I was ready to give up on it.... I appreciate the support you have provided myself and others. Thank you. I may even consider getting another Mark V but may hold off and wait to see what is the next thing from Mesa.

Keep the grinder grinding...

 

[Markageddon]

I have come to terms with a few things.... what to do next? Not really sure. I often question why I even bother....

Kudos to Apeman for the inspiration for the Mark V as I was ready to give up on it.... I appreciate the support you have provided myself and others. Thank you. I may even consider getting another Mark V but may hold off and wait to see what is the next thing from Mesa.

Keep the grinder grinding...

No need to feel down, ripples sent out, lives made better..job done til the next round.
Time to get playing! (Maybe get a 25 or 35 next?) The future is bright, soundwise.
(And bright now in all the right places)

 

[bandit2013]

Perhaps I can rephrase things.... I love the JP-2C but I am beginning to better understand that amp a lot more and as of late it seems a bit over the top. Not in a bad way but I seem to struggle with a Classic Rock tone. It is on the other hand perfect for Heavy Metal in the darkness within which can be fun sometimes. Just like the Roadster in some respects but not drowning in the shadows. The Mark V is a bit brighter in the midrange but yet has versatility that the JP-2C does not. One facet of the Mark V is its character at lower volumes, JP-2C is awesome too but just too loud for most applications. Even the 60W is louder than the Mark V. Not a complaint but I do not always want to be shaking the house down. I must have been spoiled with the TC-50 in some respects so I am bummed it is out for repair at the moment.

The Mod has me thinking on other things with the Mark V. Considering how well the V responds to different 12AX7 preamp tubes, I have not yet decided to roll in some tubes in strategic positions to see what the possibilities are with the tone change using the 12AT7 in V4. Now that I have a few things to aid in recording perhaps I will be able to capture the differences between stock tubes and "other". Since the warranty has expired on the Mark V no reason to hold back on finding out if there is a holy grain in there somewhere. JAN/Phillips is the missing link but yet I think there is something else missing in the puzzle. The Beijing tubes (same tube used by Mesa in 1990) definitely step it up a bit. Have a box full of preamp tubes just waiting to be heated up. off-topic here since this is a tube roll thing.

Has anyone tried the V4 or V6 mode with EL34 tubes?

 

[mace]

Since putting a AT7 in the V4 slot my other amps have been collecting dust, for the most part. The Mark V is definitely my go to amp and is just so very, very versatile. I spend most of the time in crunch on channel 2, with a bit mid-heavy sound. Maybe a bit honky alone, but just heavenly in the band. The TC-50 gets used once in a while, and I'll have a chance to use it at some band practices coming up (i.e., gig volume) and try some different settings to see if the sound can beef up a bit (run the channel masters higher, above 12 o'clock).

I feel bad, the TC-50 is sitting here patiently and Bandit really misses his. Too bad shipping is such a pain or I could loan it out. ha

Anyway, it is pretty clear that the Mark sound is what I'm after and this V4 mod is icing on a very delicious cake.

 

[jnoel64]

Has anyone tried the V4 or V6 mode with EL34 tubes?

When I first got mine, I ran EH 6CA7s for a test run. Despite the reduced gain I initially had (more than likely due to dirty tube sockets), I really liked the tone I got with those. Not exactly a true EL34, but still the EL34 bias. I may have to give those another shot. When I tried the 6CA7s, I had the AT7 in V4.

 

[bandit2013]

I did try the JJ 6CA7 a while back, even though they only survived for two weeks in the Mark V they sounded incredible and that was with out chasing the preamp tube balloon. Not sure if I was tube rolling back then. I was impressed with the tone and distortion character. I believe I followed that up with the KT77 and abused them to no end. That was awesome too. I did pop them in the Mark V again after the V4 just to confirm the KT77 were still usable as they have been in a box for a year or two. Those are closer to an EL34 tone but yet different in characteristic as they are similar to the 6CA7 structure internally as they are both beam tetrodes. EL34 is just a triple grid or power pentode tube and no beaming plates.

I always wanted to try the EH brand. Never got around to ordering them though....