Mesa Express 5:25 Loss of Power and Definition

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FXR

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In another thread I talked about having issues with my Express where it seems to just lose power and definition. But the problem is tough to duplicate. You have to play for a good two hours and get her hot. We've tried all kinds of tubes from Mesa and now a different speaker. It's kinda like the guitar cord went bad or was switched to a speaker wire.

I got to play last night, but, I used a Celestion G12-65 speaker to see if mine was a problem. The G12-65 does not bark like the Vintage 30. It's a bit more 80's rock and roll as advertised. I like it, it's very usable. But, my speaker does not seem to be the problem.

I was jamming and she sounded full and loud. Then, as if someone switched it to a lower wattage mode, she just fell on her face.

It takes a long while of operation to have the problem occur. It's hard to duplicate and describe. Best I can say is it loses power and definition and if you're playing live, you're lost in the mix. Turning it up don't help. It was already stage loud to begin with and mic'd.

I've gone and hooked up to other cabs and jammed for a good hour and had the guys that let me come over to use the cabinets call me nuts cause it sounded fine. When it's working, it does sound more then just fine too!

I've got one more test scenario I'm going to go through to verify the issue. I have a professional musician friend that has volunteered to borrow it and make notes since he has experienced the issue in a live setting. Then I'm going to have to send it to Mesa and hope they can duplicate the issue and see what's going on. I bet you can see it on a scope, if you can get the problem to occur.

It's really a bummer that I can't get 4 hours of stage time out of this amp right now. It affects my playing and my attitude. Not to mention all the musicians that see a Mesa fail.
 
Yeah. I'd really love to hear what's wrong with the amp. It always freaks me out when someone's amp acts funny. I'm just waiting for this amp to shaft me.
 
Hey FXR -

Intermittant issues are the worst.

We have to tip our hats to you for the diligence and experimentation that you've done so far. Well done. There are so many different things that can affect the amp but aren't actually the amp. That said, it sounds like you've done all the right things to weed out different options.

You might take a look at the speaker cable that connects to the amp and inspect the solder joint there. Sometimes those can be intermittant and cause what you're experiencing. Other than that and the final experiment you have in mind, sending it back home for a torture test is probably the next best step. It's got the best chance of being exorcized and returned to reliable service and we'll take care of you regardless.

Look forward to results of the final experiments and hopefully getting the amp back on the road without it having to come back home.

Authorized Boogie
 
Thanks Mr. Boogie. The service center at Mesa has been good to me through this ordeal. I have been in good hands all the way. I'm sure my calls to the service center have sounded a bit hair brained at times in my frustration trying to explain this and get advice before shipping her out.

I honestly tried everything I can think of as well as the things I was advised to try. I am confident in that and thanks for acknowledging that.

She's on her way to your good hands now. Based on what I saw others say about similar situations dealing with a repair, I expect a good outcome. Chase that ghost away, please. :)
 
She arrived at the Mesa Boogie Repair Center at 10:40am for repair. I hope she isn't there too long.
 
Let's take a look and see if she can get into a pre-repair listen since it's an intermittant thing - this could be a minute. We'll loop some especially heavy rock riffs into the sampler and let er rip for a minute. More to follow shortly. :twisted:
 
Thanks for getting that rolling. It's been an effort in frustration for us.
 
Well, I heard back from Mesa service today. I will collect my thoughts before I go off here in public. I'm not pleased at all with the way I was treated.
 
FXR said:
Well, I heard back from Mesa service today. I will collect my thoughts before I go off here in public. I'm not pleased at all with the way I was treated.

FXR - Sorry to hear this.

Hang in there for a minute and I'll have a look into this tomorrow morning. I haven't had the chance to check the amp myself but will do and look forward to getting this handled. Shoot me a PM with your contact info if you have a chance and I'll call you tomorrow.

This will be sorted out properly. Hang in there...

Boogie
 
I'm digesting what happened. When I get the amp back hopefully I can just look forward and it won't matter.
 
Kinda like a lost in translation situation. The repair experiment continues in a positive direction.
 
Well the amp is home and with some sorting of OTs at Mesa and a replacement of the PI here at home later, she seems back to normal. But I still want to see the results at the jam next time.
 
Well, 24 hours later and I still have that wow feeling. I'm more optimistic now. Oh the sounds. It's nice.
 
So glad to hear that man. I just got my amp doing a "wow" kinda sound. Blows me away. Threw two 12AU7's in the pre and lowered the pickup height. They're really great little amps.
 
What kind of guitar do you have? I have a strat and found I had to do the tone bleed mod to the volume control to run the guitar low enough not to be loud even in 5 watt mode. Point being, I can see why you would tame the preamp, if we're both talking volume.

I have been playing and it's still amazing tonight. I'm loving where I am right now. It's addictive.
 
Ibanez Xiphos. It wasn't so much a volume thing, I have an attenuator for that. It was just an experimentation thing. Lowered the pickups because I heard it would become more defined, more dynamic, and tame the high end a bit. I had the 12AU7s in there for a while but as soon as I lowered the pickups BAM! Had no idea it would be so drastic. I'm still learning the nuances of a guitar rig, and I have a really really simply rig.
 
I hear ya, I really think I'm still learning. But, I'm hitting really good sound now. The folks at Mesa helped me along a lot.

I'm running RED labeled Mesa EL84s now.

I had a feedback/oscillation issue and tracked it to the PI. In the process, I wound up with JJs in the V1, V2, V3, an EH in the PI at V4, and used a GE NOS 5751 in the reverb V5 slot to round things out.

A Penta 9th Gen I had got to replace the Chinese Mesa that was in v4 didn't help me out, it sounded the same. I'm not going to use Chinese preamp tubes anymore of any brand. But getting rid of the Mesa Chinese in V4 is what cured the feedback/oscillation problem.

In this process yesterday, if things remain the same for a reasonable amount of time for tubes being what they are, my Express 5:25 is fixed and sounds amazing.
 
Two more days later.

The amp continues to sound amazing. I can dial in sounds on demand. I command the feedback and sustain. It's a blast. It's touch sensitive, but very easy to work with. I'm so impressed compared to a few days ago.

So, I figured, yeah, I'm confident in the amp and put back in the Mesa Russian-2 preamp tubes that were replaced in V1, V2, & V3 while leading up to the PI (V4) replacement that squared the amp up sound wise and stamina wise. Wow, they scream. They have a top end edge, shrillness, that is just too much and difficult to dial out though. They work great and are loud as hell.

But, I went back to the JJs that got put in while troubleshooting to the PI replacement of the Mesa Chinese that was in there and letting us down after heating up it appears.

Right now, for output tubes, we are running the Red Rated (low end of the current draw) EL84 tubes Mesa recommended and generously supplied while the amp was there.

For Pre-amp tubes, I'm running JJ's in V1, V2, &V3 an EH in V4 the PI and a JAN 5751 in the reverb. MY Mesa Express 5:25 1x12 sounds amazing. I can't wait for the next jam.

I will never use any Chinese tube of any sort in my Mesa Express. They don't seem to fit mine at all. In fact, they seem to make the amp sound broken, overheat and make mechanical noise. The two I have, a Mesa and a Penta, act exactly the same. The Penta was purchased because of so called "cocktail" recommendations and well because I had a Mesa labeled Chinese, however they are not a tube I care for in this amp.

Back to playing now. It's another day I can jam WOT. Peace.
 

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