Mesa EQ'ing - please explain...

[turmoil]

I've owned my triple rectifier now for almost a year and i sincerely love it to death. i've always been a mesa fan and i was thrilled when i finally got the chance to own one.

i've just been having a tough time getting the right EQ for what i want to do.
I want achieve tone similar to that of this band, Necrophagist - http://www.myspace.com/necrophagistde I play metal somewhat similar to that but what i really like about their tone is that it is heavy but at the same time it's crystal clear and their notes are very defined. i know they play ENGL SE amps which are obviously different from mesa's but i know my recto could get a tone very similar to this.

So i've been reading lots of things about Mesa EQ's and i've read that they are quite different from normal amps EQ's. this is what someone said about mesa EQ's on another forum

What you'll have to get used to is that a Mesa EQ affects the feel of the amp more than it does the actual sound of the amp. For instance, on most amps when you turn down the mids it turns down the mids, and when you turn up the mids it turns up the mids, but on a Mesa amp when you turn up the mids it stiffens the amp up, and less will make the amp more spongy. Also, treble adds more attack, more bass adds more fatness, ect.

is there any truth to that? and if so, could someone please elaborate a little bit more so i might be able to try and understand my EQ situation.

also, i'm playing an ibanez s470FM with EMG 81/85 and a mesa oversized 4x12 cab w/V 30's.

 

[mloiaco]

Yes, IMO, I would say that there is some truth to that quote.
But as a RK owner, I don't think that the EQ is your problem.

The problem is that a Recto is not generally known for producing the distortion that you've described as:

"heavy metal, yet the notes are crystal clear."

The Recto trademark is that it remains filthy, frightening, and in your face.

If you're looking for a tight-focused metal distortion where the notes remain crystal clear, then you'll likely be better off with a Mark IV or a Mark IIc+. Listen to the old Metallica stuff...the distortion is heavy, yet the notes have this amazing clarity to them....that's a Mark IIc+.

 

[Elpelotero]

yea...he summed it up pretty well. Rectos are not known for being tight amps. They're known for their huge chugging sound and monstrous power chords.

By having an oversized cab, it's not helping a lot either. A traditional cab will tighten things up a lot.

However, you can still try a lot of things to get kind of close.

First, get some EMG pickups. Second, turn down the bass knob, possibly the gain knob also. Up the treble, mids, and presence a little bit to get some more attack. Third, invest in tubes. Tubes, along w. emg's, will get you as close as possible to a tight sound on a recto. The tubes are specifically JJ GZ34 rectifier tubes (or you can also try Mesa 5u4g coke bottle tubes). Ask around for advice on the preamp and power section. The 440's will not suit your style IMO. They sag a lot and aren't very clear sounding. There's lots of better stuff out there. Just do your research.

good luck.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

The Recto trademark is that it remains filthy, frightening, and in your face.

+1 thats why we love them!!!

Good advice above...go to a GZ34/5AR4 rectifier, JJ or SED 6L6's, and Tung-Sol or JJ (or a mix of both) in the preamp. Bass @ 12:00 or less, Gain less than 3:00. The presence control can add a lot of clarity, but can also cause harshness if too high.

Also, boosting the front end with an EQ or OD pedal (gain down, vol up) will tighten things up quite a bit.

 

[turmoil]

thank you so very much for the suggestions guys!!
i'll definetly have to try out those tube combinations soon.

also, i have a TS9...maybe i should try running that in front of my amp again.
i was thinkin about a BBE sonic stomp (since i don't use a rack)...do you guys think that would help tighten things up a little bit?

 

[pmb]

Normally a tubescreamer should make your sound a lot tighter. Never used tubescreamers with a rectifier, but they make marshalls pretty tight.

 

[turmoil]

sounds good.
how should i have my levels on the TS9 set so it will just tighten things up?
mainly on the Drive, Tone and Level controls.
thanks!

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Drive: OFF to VERY LOW
Tone: Start at 12:00 and adjust to taste
Level: ALL THE WAY UP

MXR 10-band works really well for this also....all sliders at 0dB, Gain at 0dB, and Level at +6dB (or more to get a smoother more compressed tone). Another trick you can do with the EQ in front is to cut some of the lowest frequencies coming from your guitar and then run the Bass on the amp a bit higher...big fat Recto wall of sound without nearly as much mud.

 

[alejandro]

The Recto trademark is that it remains filthy, frightening, and in your face.

+1 thats why we love them!!!

Good advice above...go to a GZ34/5AR4 rectifier, JJ or SED 6L6's, and Tung-Sol or JJ (or a mix of both) in the preamp. Bass @ 12:00 or less, Gain less than 3:00. The presence control can add a lot of clarity, but can also cause harshness if too high.

Also, boosting the front end with an EQ or OD pedal (gain down, vol up) will tighten things up quite a bit.

There's always some way of tightening things up. Getting another amp is, I'm sure, out of the question.

A few tips on gaining some clarity:

Upgrade a few feet of your cabling. Even one higher-quality cable in the run from guitar to amp can elicit a responsive difference. Lavacable is a one stop shop for such a thing. Quality speaker cable is highly over-looked.

Planet Waves' do-it-yourself vampire-tap effects cable set is better for heavy/hard rock than the George L kit, which is suited to clean, jazz, et cetera. An effects patching kit will save you the cost of outside labor, give you the best applicable length for your pedal array, and allow you a truer signal.

Canare GS-6 is a solidly engineered, entry-level best-buy; everyone can agree that, for the money, they deliver.

GZ34s or 5U4GBs as your rectifiers let you keep your earthen, sub-sonic bottom, but on a tighter leash. The 5U4Gs are definitely saggy. Mesa carries both.

Everybody likes JJ/Tesla or Tung Sol in the pre-amp section, and they really do tighten up your attack and clean up your tone. You can JJ/Tesla all the pre-amp section. I've yet to try a Tung Sol in the V1 position (V2-V5, can be your choice of manufacturer), a number of people swear this is the Great Nubbin for that G-Spot. JJs in my pre section cleaned up presence, compared to the Mesas, which are selected for their reliability (nice) a little more than their tone.

I second the over-drive pedal. Whatever your flavor, and remember, you can mod that TS-9 at a later date.

 

[sistine35]

Here's the deal man... recording is really something totally different and abides by its own set of laws. Unlike standing next to your stack.. full blown ballz out. Your ears going to hear differnt things at different distances.. try getting a long cable, or wireless and backing up from your cab and listen to your amp as an audience. After all this is what matters. Unless you are just playing for yourself. However another thing is that.. I checked out that myspace page for that band, and they have double tracked the guitars numerous times. Which therfore allows you to use VERY VERY low gain settings and record them over and over. When recording them over there are milliseconds of delay between your initial recording and your recent one. This give a more spread sparkling clear sound. Try it for your self. record a track. then double it. 2 left 2 right. pan them out and listen to the difference. Mesa's dont tend to follow the average Eq (idea) . When you stop thinking the eq as bass mids and treble and start thinking of it as. Tightness, Fluidness. and mudd. That is when you have unlocked the secret behind the mesa EQ.


Follow some basic rules when it comes to tone.

Amount of gain - Clarity. The more the less clearn

Amount of bass - Loosness. The more the looser the sound is.

Amount of Mids - Punch . The more mids. The more the amp is going to cut through the mix.

Amount of Trebel - Attack . The more definition

But realize once your roll your gain knob .. this is going to take your bass and trebel settings to a whole new leve. Maybe for better or maybe for worse.


Bottom line is you have to feel the way your guitar plays and try and replicate that through the amp. Dont listen as much.


-Lance

 

[turmoil]

hey guys...thank you so much for all the help! i finally had some time this weekend to go home and play with my settings and the first thing i did was put my TS9 infront and it made a world of difference!!!

i'm still trying to figure out a good tone but you guys definetly gave me some great ideas as far as trying different tubes (right now i just have stock mesa 440 6L6's and 5U4GB's - not sure about the preamp tubes...but probably stock also) and helping me with a new way to look at my eq. i can't wait to try this stuff out!!

right now i'm running a few cables into my amp: monster studio pro 12ft > monster rock 6 inch patch cables (x3) > monster rock 21ft > into amp. my speaker cable is also a monster studio pro...so i'm sure my cables aren't an issue...unless i'm wrong.

anyways, thanks for all the help guys!!

 

[turmoil]

also, is this the same GZ34 you were talking about guys, http://mesa.stores.yahoo.net/5archin.html ?

and i found the Tung Sol 12AX7 here, http://www.thetubestore.com/tungsol12ax7.html

i had one question about the Tung Sol's...i'm going to need 5 for the preamp of my TR but it says Additional Options: matched sections ($5.00)...is this something i should get or does it not make a difference either way?

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

5AR4/GZ34...I believe most of us were referring to the JJ GZ34. The one you refer to will do the same thing as far as the amp's response, but the JJ's are cheaper and will probably last longer too.

Tung-Sol 12AX7... the only one that needs to be balanced is the one in the phase inverter position (V5).

Check out www.dougstubes.com and www.eurotubes.com for a wealth of information (and a fair bit of hype). You will end up with a better deal, as well as tubes that are better tested/screened and matched to your amp.

 

[mloiaco]

Good call on the TS-9. I use a TS-808 in front of my Road King, and it does wonders for tightening up the distortion and adding clarity to the notes.

I haven't tried the settings that were recommended earler, but here are the settings that I use on my TS-808:


Drive: Off to very low
Tone: All the way up
Level: Adjust so that your amp is the same volume with and without the TS engaged.