Mesa combo amp as pwr amp/speak for Triaxis?

[joegold]

I've been powering my Triaxis for many years now with a Mesa Simul-Satellite which is basically a self-contained Simul-Class power section (similar to a MKIV in pentode mode) plus a speaker/open backed cabinet.

It also has a rudimentary preamp. Vol, tone and effects loop (with return pot) and that's it. The effects return pot attenuates the power amp input signal too. It can handle anything from stomp boxes to line level. It's also got a graphic EQ, a Presence w/Pull-Shift knob, and a Master Vol pot, all of which come after the effects return point.

Sometimes I use the Satellite as a stand-alone amp for jazz gigs and jazz jam sessions but the tone leaves much to be desired for this.

I'm thinking lately that maybe I'll cop a used 50, 60, or 100 watt Mesa combo amp and use it for those jazz things, as well as for powering the Triaxis on pop/R&B gigs.

I'm thinking about the Caliber +, the DC-5, the MKIIB, Nomads, F's, even the MKI re-issue. Basically, anything 50 watts or above with an effects return or a power amp in jack is worth considering. I don't need high gain or channel switching but it might be nice to have anyway.

I think I'm going to pass on Simul-Class power sections though. I keep noticing sonic characteristics in my Simul-Satellite that seem to take away from the jazz sound I'm after, with the Triaxis as well as with the Satellite's own preamp. I owned a MKIV for a few years and it was similar in this regard. In fact I bought the MKIV for the same purposes, i.e for jazz gigs and jams. A Fifty/Fifty I have rented right now seems to sound a bit better than my Satellite in this area. So I'm thinking of going with Class AB power this time rather than with Simul-Class.

So... Are any of you Triaxis users out there using any of Mesa's combo amps to power your Triaxis?

The Fifty/Fifty I rented has much more bass than my Satellite. I figure that this is due to the Deep Mod I've heard that they started including as stock on these power amps in the mid 1990's, in order to voice it better for the Triaxis. My guess is that plugging into a 50 watt Mesa combo amp's effects return point might sound significantly different than the plugging into a Fifty/Fifty with the Deep Mod. True?

At any rate, comments from anybody out there, who has experimented with this already, would be welcome.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

So... Are any of you Triaxis users out there using any of Mesa's combo amps to power your Triaxis?

When I read the title of your thread, I immediately thought "Satellite" - I'm sure you know that it was made for stereo effects expansion, typically with another combo. When the Triaxis first came out, I got one as quickly as I could and used it through two Satellites, with stereo effects. A few years later I switched to the 2:90, and there was a vast difference. Of course, I also switched to a stereo 4x12 at that time, so it is an impossible comparison with the Satellite. And I don't play jazz, though I (and others) could probably help if you stated succintly what tonal/performance qualities you'd like to move toward (hint hint).

I'm thinking that other Mesa combos would not be as useful (or cost-effective) to you as the straight power amps, since you'd likely be bypassing all the fancy preamp sections. My only other suggestion is to consider a possible speaker change, or perhaps adding an extension speaker, to fill out the sonic spectrum to your liking - this may be a more cost-effective approach.

- T

 

[Boogiebabies]

A true simul class running all 6L6's will probably be the warmest amp you will find next to a Dumble or a Blackface.

 

[joegold]

A true simul class running all 6L6's will probably be the warmest amp you will find next to a Dumble or a Blackface.

Well, at this point, I'm not sure what *you* mean by a "true" Simul-Class amp. My amp is model is named "Simul-Satellite". I've been told it's the same power section as the "Green Stripe" MKIII's (the 1st "Simul-Class" amps with pentode operation of the outer sockets) and the MKIV (when it's in pentode mode). I've also been told that the outer tubes are not really running really in Class A. So whether or not it's a"Simul-Class" amp at all is debateable. But the same debate would be applicable to the 2:90 or the MKIV (in pentode mode). But Mesa is calling them "Simul-Class" (with all 4 tubes running) and "Class A" (with the inner pair turned off) anyways.

And since the work my tech has done on it, the Satellite does seem quite a bit warmer. I could be imagining this. Or it might be because I've got some STR 454's (Mesa Winged "C") in there now and I had been using STR 430's (Mesa Sovteks) for a while. But I doubt that that's it. The amp now seems to sound the way I remember it sounding several years ago. It was around the late 90's/early 2000's that it started sounding sort of "off" to me, but not "off" in a really obvious way.

For pop/R&B/rock I like the way the top end brilliance sounds on a Simul-Class amp, a lot, especially in Tweed Power mode.
But for jazz, with the type of dark sound I like to use, Simul-class always sounds like there's a bit of fur on everything. Like there's some sort of extra grill cloth around the speaker or something. I think it's because those "Class A" tubes are always breaking up a bit, mixed in the background in Simul-class mode. The rented Fifty/Fifty I have now sounds much punchier, clearer, and warmer, with this dark jazz tone I like to use.

 

[LUCRETIA]

Someone use the mk4 as poweramp with the TA.And he also use the graphic eq on the mk4 to fine tune his TA...I thought tats cool...

 

[Tuna141]

I've used the power section of my Mark IIC combo to power my Triaxis for years. My rack, which includes a Triaxis and an Egnater IE-4 preamp connects to the IIC's effects return jack. The IIC combo sits on top of an older Mesa 4x12 1/2-back cab. The set-up sounds pretty good. The EQ on the IIC is still active, but the amp's reverb is bypassed in this configuration.

I've also tried using my Mark IV's power section instead of the IIC's, but it doesn't sound as good.

 

[joegold]

I've used the power section of my Mark IIC combo to power my Triaxis for years. My rack, which includes a Triaxis and an Egnater IE-4 preamp connects to the IIC's effects return jack. The IIC combo sits on top of an older Mesa 4x12 1/2-back cab. The set-up sounds pretty good. The EQ on the IIC is still active, but the amp's reverb is bypassed in this configuration.

Of course the Presence control still works too, right?
Is that a C+ or just a C?
Simul-Class?

Is the Triaxis' main output signal a little bit hot for the MKII's effects return jack?
Or do you use the Triaxis' Effects Send jack to drive the MKII's Effects Return jack?

Have you A/B's this set-up with a Fifty/Fifty, a 2:50 or a 2:90?
The rented Fifty/Fifty I have now seems to have a heck of a lot of bass, and I think I like that. I know that Mesa "re-voiced these amps for the Triaxis" in the early 1990's and that this involved boosting the bass. I worry that this bass boost will be absent if I simply run the Triaxis into the power section of a Mark Series (or other) combo amp. You'd think that you could make up for this by boosting the bass on the 5-band EQ, but it doesn't quite sound right usually.

I've also tried using my Mark IV's power section instead of the IIC's, but it doesn't sound as good.

Yeah. When I had a MKIV I tried that too, with a similar reaction.

 

[chedgeco]

joegold,

I think I know what jazz tone your talking about. I also think your right in saying the Simul-Class amps are always going to have a bit of hair on them, which is really annoying when your going for a real dark and clean jazz tone.

You really need to get back into Fender Twin territory if your going to do this right. I think you should get out of the Mark series altogether and get into a Lonestar Classic. The clean on that amp is to die for. Jazz tones for days. It has a series effects loop, which is what you really need to use if you want just the power section to use with your Triaxis. The DC series amps have parallel loops which I don't think would work as well.

You could also use a Mark I reissue. I use the Mark I clean setting on my Triaxis to do the clean and dark jazz tones and it excels at that. The problem with the Mark I that I think you might have is the reverb is not going to be as good as the Lonestar.

YMMV, Good Luck... Chris

 

[joegold]

joegold,

I think I know what jazz tone your talking about. I also think your right in saying the Simul-Class amps are always going to have a bit of hair on them, which is really annoying when your going for a real dark and clean jazz tone.

You really need to get back into Fender Twin territory if your going to do this right. I think you should get out of the Mark series altogether and get into a Lonestar Classic. The clean on that amp is to die for. Jazz tones for days. It has a series effects loop, which is what you really need to use if you want just the power section to use with your Triaxis. The DC series amps have parallel loops which I don't think would work as well.

Thanks for your input Chris. [I'm Joey btw.]
I don't think that the Lonestar is the way for me to go just yet, but maybe. I think I'm moving away from Simul-Class though.

Regarding the parallel loop on the DC's...
Isn't there a Mix control that's capable of going to 100% wet?
100% wet on a parallel loop design and a series loop are the same thing, no?

One thing I always do, when using high gain sounds from a preamp is to have a volume pedal in the effects loop. This doesn't work with a parallel-type loop. I wouldn't get an amp that didn't allow me to do this. And although the main plan is to use this combo we're talking about to power the Triaxis and do the occassional jazz gig as a stand-alone, I'd also like to be able to use it on the odd R&B gig as a stand-alone too. So it'll need to be able to do the overdrive thing with vol ped also.

You could also use a Mark I reissue. I use the Mark I clean setting on my Triaxis to do the clean and dark jazz tones and it excels at that. The problem with the Mark I that I think you might have is the reverb is not going to be as good as the Lonestar.

YMMV, Good Luck... Chris

Yep, I've thought about the MKI also for this. But the lack of real channel footswitching isn't really appealing. I wish they'd have re-issued the MKIIB (100/60) rather than the MKI. Actually, I'm probably leaning towards grabbing a used MKIIB.

 

[chedgeco]

Joey,

Tim up at Boogie use to use the IIB as his main amp (I got my Triaxis and Simul2:90 from him in a trade). He has since gone the route of the Lonestar. It does the IIB to a tee plus some. If I had the dough I would get that amp in a split second.

I do the volume pedal in the effects loop trick as well, so the series effects loop is a requirement for me (the Lonestar is series).

Regarding the parallel loop on the DC's...
Isn't there a Mix control that's capable of going to 100% wet?
100% wet on a parallel loop design and a series loop are the same thing, no?

I tried a DC-5 for about 6 months and it just didn't work for me. I even modified the effects loop to be series (100% wet did not work for me). Eventually I decided that I needed something a little smoother in the gain channel, plus there is an annoying pop when you change channels on the older DC-5's which is what I had. I even took it up to Petaluma to have the tech's up there go through it and they couldn't get rid of the pop.

If it's a cost issue then you will need to remember that a used Mark IIB is only going to run you a little less to probably the same as a used Lonestar. You really owe it to yourself to go check out and hear the Lonestar. It doesn't do Rectifier or Mark IIC+, III or IV high gain but it does do IIB gain levels. Perfect for R&B, Jazz Fusion, or Classic Rock'n Roll. I spent the better part of a couple of days trying out a Lonestar, and while it couldn't do the Mark III gain that I am used to, it had such a sweet sound, even the gain channel, that I was seriously considering it. Eventually I couldn't justify the cost. Maybe I'm getting a little older now, I'm running my gain levels a little lower these days for more dynamic response.

Chris... 8)

 

[joegold]

Actually, I just came back from checking out a Lonestar Classic 1/12.
Seems real nice and would probably do the trick for what I'm after.
But it's too expensive.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Tuna141]

Joegold,

Sorry, it took so long to get back to you...to answer your questions re: my Mark IIC/Triaxis:

-my amp is a regular IIC, not a C+
-I'm pretty sure the Presense control still works, but not absolutely positive ( I haven't tweeked it in years - I just use the graphic on the IIC).
- yes it has Simulclass
- no, the Triaxis' signal does not overload the IIC's effects return. I keep the master output on the Triaxis around 11-noon (about halfway). I use the regular Triaxis output, not the effects send.

Have you A/B's this set-up with a Fifty/Fifty, a 2:50 or a 2:90?

It's funny you asked this...I just picked-up a 2:90 power amp (got a deal I couldn't resist). The Triaxis w/2:90 sound very good. In fact, I think it even sounds better than using the IIC's power section. Then again, I'm still in the honeymoon stage, and haven't directly A/B'd them. I do like the Deep and Modern settings on the 2:90. Once advantage of the 2:90 over the IIC's power section is that I can get a more accurate Rectifier tone - The Deep and Modern settings on the 2:90 help with that. I guess I can summarize the tone difference between the IIC's power section and the 2:90 by saying that the Triaxis sounds more like a Mark series amp using the IIC (slightly boxy), and a little more versital, modern, and open using the 2:90 power amp.

I do think I'm going to miss the 5-band EQ on the Mark though.

 

[t0aj15]

I do think I'm going to miss the 5-band EQ on the Mark though.

That's not really a problem, I simply put an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop of the TriAxis (since I'm not all that crazy about the Dymanic Voice anyway) and I now have an even more flexible EQ for my TriAxis then the 5 band EQ in my Mark IV.

 

[joegold]

I do think I'm going to miss the 5-band EQ on the Mark though.

That's not really a problem, I simply put an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop of the TriAxis (since I'm not all that crazy about the Dymanic Voice anyway) and I now have an even more flexible EQ for my TriAxis then the 5 band EQ in my Mark IV.

I'm thinking about grabbing an Alesis programmable EQ for my Triaxis, the DEQ230D.
Anybody out the using one of these?
It's got digital In/Outs so I'll be able to keep things in the digital domain between it and my TC-G-Major.
It's way more EQ than I really need. But I need something programmable and with MIDI, and there's not much else out there. It's not too pricey either.
I'd use the G-Major's EQ but it doesn't have a Master Level control that can make up the gain when I cut frequencies. Plus it's a little tricky to edit in a pinch.

 

[t0aj15]

Actually I'm just waiting for the IRS refund to get this one: http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=45