Mesa/Boogie DC-3 vs. Mark IV for Metal?

[LEVEL4]

Can anyone here who's played both make some comparison commentary for me please on these two amps? I'm considering the head-only versions. I know the DC-3 is typically EL84-tubed, and that the Mark IV is typically 6L6-tubed (is that correct?).

My desired sounds are all types of metal. I don't ever really need cleans. So, my biggest questions are about the character of their preamp gain stages and the character of their distortion in the lead channel.

FWIW: My favorite two amps are the Soldano SLO100 (deep and rich) and the Framus Cobra (fat and fuzzy). I own a 6505 that I'll use for rhythms, palm-mutes, and chugs. The Mesa would be for leads. I have an LP Studio and an HSS Strat, and typically run NO pedals. More specifically:

• Which is better-suited for metal?
• Which has more preamp gain?
• Which is darker/brighter?
• Subjective sonic character description of DC-3's lead channel?
• Subjective sonic character description of Mark IV's lead channel?

I actually already bought a DC-3 online, but haven't received yet. But, since they seem to hold their value so well, I may just turn around and sell it for a Mark IV.

Also, since a used Mark IV sells for about twice what a used DC-3 sells for, is the DC-3 "close enough," and worth saving the extra $600-$700? Or are the DC-series amps and the Mark IVs totally different animals?

Thanks for any replies!

 

[jerseydrew]

Wow, that's a tricky question. I owned a DC-3 for many years. It's a great amp and a great deal on the used market. I no longer own the DC-3, I own a MkIV. IMO, the MKIV can do whatever the DC-3 can do PLUS a lot more. I think either amp can get you to heavy metal territory.

 

[LEVEL4]

Wow, that's a tricky question. I owned a DC-3 for many years. It's a great amp and a great deal on the used market. I no longer own the DC-3, I own a MkIV. IMO, the MKIV can do whatever the DC-3 can do PLUS a lot more. I think either amp can get you to heavy metal territory.

Thanks for your reply! That's good the hear (the metal part). Does the MarkIV, according to your memory, in fact, have more gain than the DC-3?

 

[jerseydrew]

I believe the MKIV may have more gain, but I don't recall.

My question to you is: When you say metal, do you mean today's Nu Metal, or classic Metal like Priest or Iron Maiden?

 

[LEVEL4]

I believe the MKIV may have more gain, but I don't recall.

My question to you is: When you say metal, do you mean today's Nu Metal, or classic Metal like Priest or Iron Maiden?

Thanks for your reply. I generally mean all types of metal. From hair to nu-metal. Are there any other major differences you can recall between the MarkIV and the DC-3? Thanks for your input!

 

[al3d]

i can't talk about the MKIV...but i play Maiden, priest, metallica and the like on a MKIII and NO other FX on it..and man...my pals with their JCM 2000 wanna kill me everytime we start playing..hehehe

 

[fpoon]

Not sure about the DC but this will give you a general idea of what a Mark IV can do.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=147856&content=music

http://media.putfile.com/Dream-Theater-clip

http://media.putfile.com/EL34-Mark-IV-clip

 

[AustinK]

if it is just for leads i would look at a MarkIII Plus it is more aggressive than tha mark iv

Welcome to the board

 

[LEVEL4]

if it is just for leads i would look at a MarkIII Plus it is more aggressive than tha mark iv

Welcome to the board

Thanks for the welcome! Oh, really? The MarkIII more "aggressive" than the MarkIV? Well, I just ordered some TungSol 12AX7s for my DC-3, since the previous owner put 12AT7s in. I called Mesa this morning, and they said to definitely replace the ATs with the AXs or you'll "kill all your tone." Probably still won't actually receive the amp until next week.

 

[al3d]

Hey Level 4..i'm curious, looking at your profile we're in the same feild, i'm a graphic designer/photographer/Visual FX artist. i'de love to see your stuff....are you working in LA?

 

[Fxrs]

Well, I just ordered some TungSol 12AX7s for my DC-3,

Keep us posted on how you like them, as it's getting on retube time for my DC-5.

 

[LEVEL4]

Hey Level 4..i'm curious, looking at your profile we're in the same feild, i'm a graphic designer/photographer/Visual FX artist. i'de love to see your stuff....are you working in LA?

Hey, hi there! I'm actually an ENG/EFP camera operator for a major TV network. Yes, I'm L.A. You can see my short films (yeah, all two of 'em) under "view my: videos" on my myspace page (under the avatar) at http://myspace.com/level4films Don't really know beans about AfterEffects or any of the 3D apps, but I would like to hook up with a VFX artist to collaborate on some more short films someday.

Keep us posted on how you like them, as it's getting on retube time for my DC-5.

Will do. Just got an e-mail from the guy. He hasn't shipped it yet, so I won't get it for at least a week from NOW. The TungSols are reported to have some quality control issues, but reportedly sound great. But I'll let you guys know how the AXs compare to the ATs.

EDIT: Amp just shipped today (finally!). Should get it next week!

 

[guitardude05]

Not sure about the DC but this will give you a general idea of what a Mark IV can do.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=147856&content=music

http://media.putfile.com/Dream-Theater-clip

http://media.putfile.com/EL34-Mark-IV-clip

**** if these are your clips thats amazing. great tones! whats your secret?! lol must be the 2x12 helping, i cant get that out of my combo.

 

[LEVEL4]

Some say the DC-3 isn't "br00talz" enough for metal; some say it is. Copied from another post here on this board, this Myspace guy plays a DC-3 (he's also using a BBE Sonic Maximizer and some 32-band EQ, but it still sounds f*cking amazing). If I can manage those tones outta my DC-3, I'll be in heaven. Was kinda planning on getting a BBE and a graphic EQ anyways.

[Warning: explicit language and anti-religious content.]

Myspace link using a Mesa/Boogie DC-3

 

[LEVEL4]

FINALLY!

. . . got my Mesa/Boogie DC-3 head today! I must say, I'm very happy with the Ebay seller I bought it from—it's a mint-condition DC-3! It's f*cking late at night now, so I can't crank it yet. It came tubed with 12AT7s. I played it for about one minute, then immediately replaced them with the TungSol 12AX7s I bought last week from Tube Depot (in anticipation my dislike of the wimpy 12AT7s).

So, now it's loaded with six, Russian TungSol 12AX7 preamp tubes, and four, JJ Electronic (Tesla) EL84 power tubes. The TungSol 12AX7s produce noticably more gain than the JJ 12AT7s, perhaps about 30%, or more, "apparent" gain. Seems like a pretty sweet combo, but like I said, I can't turn the amp up past '1' until tomorrow.

So, how much gain? Well, it's "enough." It's not over-the-top-buzzsaw kinda gain, but it's a real pretty, very defined-sounding gain. I still don't know if a Mark IV utterly pwns the DC-3 in the gain department or not. One man's "insane" could be another man's "still need to turn it up to '11.'" But I already have an ultra-high gain amp anyway, my modded 6505 head, which I also quite like, and hope will make a nice contrast with my new DC-3.

Also, I f*cking LOVE the five-band, graphic EQ on these things (kinda the main reason I bought it)! So many sounds! Yeah, I played around with the infamous 'V' setting. It does sound cool. Lots of other sounds to be had here. Versatile! Can't wait to turn it up tomorrow. By the way, the cleans do sound really good on this amp as well, but, who cares? I don't! Overall . . . very pleased with the tone and the sound of this little head.

 

[jerseydrew]

Good for you LEVEL4, you sound like a happy camper

 

[LEVEL4]

Well, I'm getting over my gear honeymoon with the DC-3, and I have some renewed doubts, and am looking for some answers.

I've recorded some tracks with my two amps using an AT3035 large diaphragm condensor and an SM57 dynamic, through a tube-based PreSonus dual micpre. On evaluating the amp's respective tones on playback, the gain on the DC-3 is decent, but it's too compressed. Playing rhythm on the DC-3's lead channel vs. chords played on my 6505, there's no comparison. The DC-3 is flat and compressed. The 6505 is alive and full of bite. It's got about 300% more bite. The 6505 cuts through a mix like a laser beam through melted butter. Yet it's not "ice pick-ey" at all.

Fast-attack, short-fretted partial chords, and pinch-harmonics fly out of the 6505. They're certainly attainable on the DC-3 as well, they're just much flatter, with less dynamics (the DC-3 has been loaded with fresh TungSol 12AX7s and JJ EL84 power tubes).

So, I've decided that between my 6505 and the right Mesa/Boogie amp, I'll have most of the sounds I want. It's between a DC-series amp or a Mark IV, since I really like the built-in graphic EQs of these amps, and I do think these amps are also very versatile. Paradoxically, the DC-3 has a wide variety of tones, easily tweaked, but seems to lack the dynamics of other high-gain amps. I think it sounds great for leads, but chords have that blanket-over-the-amp sound. Yes, the notes are defined, even with the gain dimed, and the DC-3's lead channel manages to generate a very pleasing distortion, but there's a lack of brightness, attack, and punch. I'm ready to Ebay this DC-3 in a heartbeat, and find a Mark IV instead, if the Mark IV is really that much more "metal-ey." If it's "about the same," or only marginally higher in gain or not significantly different in overall dynamic character, I'll just hang on to the DC-3.

So, I have to re-ask these same questions again . . . Many have mentioned that the Mark IV has more gain in its lead channel than the DC-3. How much more? Like, 20%, 30%, 50% more? How "different" is the Mark IV sound than the DC-3 sound? Like, 30%, 100% "different," or what?

 

[fpoon]

I'm sure there will be quiet a difference in gain, but trust me, you will not need to max it out, it has just enough for any player.

Here is another clip I found of Willie from LoG playing on the Mark IV. It is very easy to get that tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuTHuFZd0Bc&feature=related

 

[LEVEL4]

Well, I cranked the volume a bit today on my DC-3 head (without the attenuator), and the amp does open up much better when loud. Much more dynamic. I guess Mesas do need to be turned up to sound good. There's actually plenty of gain in the DC-3's lead channel. I can't imagine the Mark IV having significantly more gain than the DC-3. Anyone who's heard both concur?

I just went and played the amp again turned up, and it sounds VERY close to those Mark IV clips. Lots of bite. Has that signature, Mesa gritty-grainy-growl. The lead channels on Framus Cobras, Soldano SLOs, and 5150/6505s actually sound VERY good at low volumes, whereas the DC-3 needs to be cranked up a bit to sound "right."