Mesa 4x12 - remove grill to get rid of the "blanket" ?

[Gnarkill3k6]

Hi,

I just got a second hand Mesa 4x12 cab (rectifier, standard, slant, V30's) to replace my Marshall 4x12 (straight, V30's)... But, the Mesa really sounds dull and like there's a blanket over the cab in comparison to the Marshall. I played with the controls for a while but it didn't really help. Is there a way to get the Mesa sound as good as the Marshall? Maybe remove the grill or something?

My head is a 2005 Triple rectifier.

 

[R_ADKINS80]

To my knowledge the Mesa V30's are slightly different. But to answer your question.....No, it won't help. Those two cabs use entirely different construction/dimentions and even with the same speakers swapped back and forth between them they will sound different. But I do agree, I like Marshall cabs with a rectifier more than Mesa's own cabs.

 

[Gnarkill3k6]

Ah, I was a bit afraid of that... I had a strong feeling I had to let the cab go again ;-)
I'm going to fool myself and I'm going to stick with the Marshall for now.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The Marshall Vintage and Mesa Vintage 30 aren't the same speaker. As you've figured out, the Marshall is a lot brighter and crunchier while the Mesa is darker and smoother.

 

[Jackie]

Those two cabs use entirely different construction/dimentions

Actually, if you tip a Marshall cab on the side, it's the same as a Recto cab and vice versa - neither are a square (75x75cm) like the Stiletto and cheaper Marshall cabs. The Marshall 1960 (75x83) is 8cm wider, the Mesa Recto std. (83x75) 8cm taller.

Check out the Mesa vs. standard Celestion V30 comparison. Blew me away :shock:

 

[Gnarkill3k6]

The Marshall Vintage and Mesa Vintage 30 aren't the same speaker. As you've figured out, the Marshall is a lot brighter and crunchier while the Mesa is darker and smoother.

Hmm, I checked the speakers and they looked like "standard" Celestion V30's to me... The V30's in the Marshall cab have Marshall labels on them. How can they be so much different?

ok...
And if I put the speakers from the Marshall into the Mesa? Bluntly; will this give me the non-blanket tone of the Marshall? Or does construction have a lot to do with this?

 

[Jackie]

The Marshall Vintage and Mesa Vintage 30 aren't the same speaker. As you've figured out, the Marshall is a lot brighter and crunchier while the Mesa is darker and smoother.

Hmm, I checked the speakers and they looked like "standard" Celestion V30's to me... The V30's in the Marshall cab have Marshall labels on them. How can they be so much different?

ok...
And if I put the speakers from the Marshall into the Mesa? Bluntly; will this give me the non-blanket tone of the Marshall? Or does construction have a lot to do with this?

The Marshall spec V30 and regular Celestion V30 are almost identical in terms of tone, while the Mesa spec is quite different apparently. I guess if you replace speakers, you should get a big tone change - a different speaker is a much more apparent change than mere cabinet construction. It has something to do with it, but not a LOT lot.

 

[Gnarkill3k6]

Alright thanks. Think I'm going to swap the speakers. Hopefully I don't have to make destructive choices :wink:

BTW, Is there any way you can see the Mesa V30's are Mesa's? (Im not near the cab now)

 

[screamingdaisy]

Hmm, I checked the speakers and they looked like "standard" Celestion V30's to me... The V30's in the Marshall cab have Marshall labels on them. How can they be so much different?

Long story short...

Back in the mid 80s Marshall wanted some custom voiced speakers developed and the end result was the Marshal Vintage. I think they came out in 1987, but I could be wrong.

Celestion liked the speaker and wanted to market it for themselves but the Marshall design was proprietary property, so they changed a few details and produced the Vintage 30.

Mesa also liked the design, but wanted some details tweaked to suit their tonal tastes. Both the Celestion and Mesa versions hit the market in '91 if I remember correctly.

The Marshall is the brightest and the crunchiest. The Mesa is the darkest and smoothest. The Celestion is somewhere in the middle.

I don't have any Marshalls on hand to compare, but compared to the Celestions my Mesa V30s have bigger magnets, the pole is machined instead of cast, and the back plate appears to be made out of a different alloy using a different casting process. No idea if there's any difference in the voice coils as I'm not willing to rip them apart just to satisfy my interest.

ok...
And if I put the speakers from the Marshall into the Mesa? Bluntly; will this give me the non-blanket tone of the Marshall? Or does construction have a lot to do with this?

I've put two Mesa V30s in an Orange 4x12 and its started to sound more like a Recto 4x12 than an Orange 4x12.

Alright thanks. Think I'm going to swap the speakers. Hopefully I don't have to make destructive choices :wink:

BTW, Is there any way you can see the Mesa V30's are Mesa's? (Im not near the cab now)

They have different part numbers. It's usually printed on a sticker attached to the magnet or somewhere on the motor assembly.

Mesa = T4335 (8 ohms) or T4416 (16 ohms)
Celestion = T3903 (8 ohms) or T3904 (16 ohms)
Marshall = T3989 (8 ohms) or T3897 (16 ohms)

 

[Gnarkill3k6]

Thanks, very interesting! I thought Celestion tried to improve their greenback spekaer and ended up with the now called V30.

Anyways. This weekend is going to be the swap weekend!

 

[Gnarkill3k6]

Swapped the speakers yesterday...

My findings so far, of course it's all based on my personal preferences.

- Marshall cab stock = sounds great. Great tone, feel and response.
- Mesa cab stock = the infamous blanket (even after tone control compensation) a little more tight and hard hitting than the Marshall.
- Mesa cab with Marshall Vintage's = better than stock, but not better than Marshall cab stock.
- Marshall cab with the Mesa V30's = better than Mesa cab stock not better than Marshall cab.

To my surprise cab construction does do something with the sound... the Mesa cab sounded more compressed and the Marshall seemed more dynamic and filled the room better. Overall it's seems like the Marshall cab and speakers are really made for each other. With the Mesa cab I got the feeling they just build a cab to sell along with the Rectifier heads and just threw "custom spec." V30's in it.

I think I have to let the dream of a 'full' Mesa set die... Sticking with the Marshall 1960BV for now, maybe I'll try to find it a second hand 1960AV brother. :-D

Hope that all made sense!

P.S. I formatted the text in places were I thought the brands could be confused with each other.

 

[screamingdaisy]

With the Mesa cab I got the feeling they just build a cab to sell along with the Rectifier heads and just threw "custom spec." V30's in it.

The slant Recto 4x12 is a really popular cab for recording. It shifts the mids down out of the vocal range so the singer has more room in the mix. I'm guessing that's the "blanket" you're hearing.

 

[Gnarkill3k6]

Sold the Mesa cab (made a small profit!).

The quest for better tone continues.

 

[R_ADKINS80]

I'm REALLY digging the 5150 cabs with my Triple. I run two of the stock Sheffield 1200's in an x pattern with 2 celestion G12T-75s and it's a perfectly balanced cab.

 

[siggy14]

Mesa Cabs are built alot better then the newer marshalls, the speakers are designed to compliment the rect, however you do not use the rectifier like most people do so it seems you are unhappy with it.

I wish I would have caught you before you sold the mesa cab and told you to try x pattern with the Celestion G12H Anniversary
http://celestion.com/product/17/g12h_anniversary/

People seem to like mixing these two speakers, it will brighten up the cab.

Another option you might want to try is the older Mark cabs, they are still mesa, but they are front loaded so they are brighter no matter what speaker you put into them. There are plenty of talk over the internet about front vs rear loaded, just do a search for "front loaded vs rear loaded speakers" and have fun reading.

Swapped the speakers yesterday...

My findings so far, of course it's all based on my personal preferences.

- Marshall cab stock = sounds great. Great tone, feel and response.
- Mesa cab stock = the infamous blanket (even after tone control compensation) a little more tight and hard hitting than the Marshall.
- Mesa cab with Marshall Vintage's = better than stock, but not better than Marshall cab stock.
- Marshall cab with the Mesa V30's = better than Mesa cab stock not better than Marshall cab.

To my surprise cab construction does do something with the sound... the Mesa cab sounded more compressed and the Marshall seemed more dynamic and filled the room better. Overall it's seems like the Marshall cab and speakers are really made for each other. With the Mesa cab I got the feeling they just build a cab to sell along with the Rectifier heads and just threw "custom spec." V30's in it.

I think I have to let the dream of a 'full' Mesa set die... Sticking with the Marshall 1960BV for now, maybe I'll try to find it a second hand 1960AV brother. :-D

Hope that all made sense!

P.S. I formatted the text in places were I thought the brands could be confused with each other.

 

[Jorn218]

I don't think this was mentioned, but I had the same problem. I finally pulled off the rear cover and found that two solder joints had come loose from the speaker they were connected to. In my case, it was one positive connection on one speaker and the negative on the other, both were the bottom speakers. I do not know when this happened, but noticed that I wasn't as loud as my second guitarists amp(Marshall JMP halfstack) where his amp was turned to maybe 9:00 where my global output was almost at 12:00. Once fixed, my amp's volume was back where it should be, as well as the blanket over cabinet muddiness you were describing.

 

[Gnarkill3k6]

I tried many things... but in the end I sold the cab ;-)