Maverick Combo "low end" on clean channel?

[rsilverst]

Hi all (this is my first post),

I've got a Maverick 1x12 Combo -- had it for about 30 years now, and it's my favorite amp by far! I almost always use the clean channel for the style of music I play (classic rock and pop). Over the years, it's had a number of different speakers in it -- currently am running a WGS Invader).

My question is about the low end. Compared to some other medium power amps (e.g. Fender Deluxe, Vox AC30), this amp seems not to have a ton of bass available. I've also done a lot of tube rolling, so I don't think it's just a case of the tubes I've selected. I'm not saying it's inadequate, but I'm just surprised I don't hear more. One possibility is that I'm comparing it to people's well-produced YouTube videos where they've recorded a mic'd Deluxe, and the mic selection and placement is enhancing the bass...

Does anyone happen to know if this amp is intentionally voiced to be trimming out more low end to avoid flabbiness?

Another possibility is that maybe I just don't play loud enough

Happy to provide more details if I didn't include enough in my questions.

 

[rarebitusa]

A player I jam with has a Maverick combo w/ MC-90. I've played it enough to get a feel for it.

Questions...

What guitar/pickups do you typically use? Do you have/use any effects or pedals inline?

I will mention... that combo is a fairly small cab and doesn't seem, to my ears, to have the same presence or depth that a larger sized cab would provide. My preference is to pair a 2nd 1x12 with it.

Running an EQ pedal in the signal chain or in the fx loop can help.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Eq will work wonders in the loop
You may want to convert the loop to series though, if you still can’t get the tone you’re looking for

Another option is a darker sounding speaker
I’m not familiar with the Warehouse Invader, so I don’t really know what tones are available with it
You might try an Eminence Cannabis Rex or a Celestion Creamback 65

Or, add a Theile cabinet (or even a Mesa open back cab) under your amp


Yet another option would be to alter the bright cap that is on the Volume/Gain pot of your clean channel
The stock value is 120 pico farad
You might try a lower value, or even remove it altogether

https://schematicheaven.net/boogieamps/boogie_maverick.pdf

 

[user 41014]

Or, add a Theile cabinet

This will bring the bass response up and extend it lower.

I also agree with the open back wl EVM under and a bigger speaker cab.

 

[rsilverst]

A player I jam with has a Maverick combo w/ MC-90. I've played it enough to get a feel for it.

Questions...

What guitar/pickups do you typically use? Do you have/use any effects or pedals inline?

I will mention... that combo is a fairly small cab and doesn't seem, to my ears, to have the same presence or depth that a larger sized cab would provide. My preference is to pair a 2nd 1x12 with it.

Running an EQ pedal in the signal chain or in the fx loop can help.

I use a few different guitars, so I've played with single coil Strat-style, Telecaster, humbuckers, and P90. Yes, I do use a pedal board, but the tone doesn't differ noticeably between my bypassed chain and plugging straight in. I think your point about the cab size is probably the main thing. I have a separate 1 x 12 cabinet that I built, which is a little bit larger, and I do think it's a bit fuller. I'm tempted to go with your suggestion of just using a second 1 x 12, particularly because it will also give me a wider spectrum of tones (right now I've got a Jensen Blackbird 40 in the extension cab, which is quite different from the Invader).

I haven't tried EQ in the chain or loop yet, but I will give it a try.

To be fair, I don't mean to paint a picture of a thin and lifeless tone -- the amp sounds great, and is my go-to. I just get the distinct sense that compared to (for example) my Tweed Deluxe, which I realize is a completely different beast (but still is a 1 x 12), it seems like this amp is intentionally trimming more lows, which would make sense if they're focusing on avoiding flab in higher gain situations. That said, I think the clean channel could have give a kept a little more of it

 

[rsilverst]

This will bring the bass response up and extend it lower.

I also agree with the open back wl EVM under and a bigger speaker cab.

Years and years ago, when I first bought the amp, I had an external Mesa 1x12 Thiele style cabinet, with an EVM in it. It was definitely a tighter low end, but also more brittle. I ended up selling it I have always preferred the open back tones and slightly looser sounding speakers more.

 

[rarebitusa]

Eq will work wonders in the loop

Oh yea It's the Mesa secret weapon IMHO!!!

 

[rsilverst]

Eq will work wonders in the loop
You may want to convert the loop to series though, if you still can’t get the tone you’re looking for

Another option is a darker sounding speaker
I’m not familiar with the Warehouse Invader, so I don’t really know what tones are available with it
You might try an Eminence Cannabis Rex or a Celestion Creamback 65

Or, add a Theile cabinet (or even a Mesa open back cab) under your amp


Yet another option would be to alter the bright cap that is on the Volume/Gain pot of your clean channel
The stock value is 120 pico farad
You might try a lower value, or even remove it altogether

https://schematicheaven.net/boogieamps/boogie_maverick.pdf

I've got a few other speakers that I can try. One of the things I tend to like when I hear amps like Fender Deluxe (blackface) is that it seems to have good low and high end (same with my Tweed Deluxe, albeit a different character). It really sounds to me like the Maverick has dialed out the low end, so yeah - perhaps I should take a look at mods. From my amp-building experience, I wonder though if making the change at the bright cap is really what would give me the effect I want -- isn't the point of the bright cap to allow more bright signal to bypass the volume knob? If so, then removing it would cut highs, but not boost lows. I'm wondering if using larger values either for some of the early stage coupling caps or cathode bypass (although I would need to do some more research on that since the way this amp seems to do coupling between stages is different from anything I've seen in Fender or Marshall schematics I've looked at).

 

[user 41014]

Years and years ago, when I first bought the amp, I had an external Mesa 1x12 Thiele style cabinet, with an EVM in it. It was definitely a tighter low end, but also more brittle. I ended up selling it I have always preferred the open back tones and slightly looser sounding speakers more.

My Maverick is a head which allows for instant speaker diversity.

The MC-90 is another great Thiele option as it does not sound like an open back MC-90. Or at least it seems of enough of a size difference sound wise to not seem the same.

Given the watts you can also explore alnico if you wanted to add some chime on a second cab, the blue/blue dog/gold/silver bell/jensen/on and on. I don't know the Invader but a MC 90 in the combo and a blue type or gold below it would give a different sonic signature.

 

[rsilverst]

My Maverick is a head which allows for instant speaker diversity.

The MC-90 is another great Thiele option as it does not sound like an open back MC-90. Or at least it seems of enough of a size difference sound wise to not seem the same.

Given the watts you can also explore alnico if you wanted to add some chime on a second cab, the blue/blue dog/gold/silver bell/jensen/on and on. I don't know the Invader but a MC 90 in the combo and a blue type or gold below it would give a different sonic signature.

The Invader I would describe as a pretty well balanced speaker (based on a Celestion Greenback, they say). The previous speaker in this amp was a Vintage 30, and this is in the same ballpark. There are some samples here. I've also got some spare speakers from a shootout I was doing (2 Alnico: Jensen Blackbird 40, Weber 12A100, and a neodymium Jensen Stealth 65 -- I will give those another try in my 1x12 extension cab to see if I notice any interesting differences on the low end).

 

[user 41014]

The Invader I would describe as a pretty well balanced speaker (based on a Celestion Greenback, they say). The previous speaker in this amp was a Vintage 30, and this is in the same ballpark. There are some samples here. I've also got some spare speakers from a shootout I was doing (2 Alnico: Jensen Blackbird 40, Weber 12A100, and a neodymium Jensen Stealth 65 -- I will give those another try in my 1x12 extension cab to see if I notice any interesting differences on the low end).

I'm interested in hearing back on the ceramic/alnico pairing. I hadn't thought of that before posting it but I think soon I'll have to pull out my 3/4 back with blues to go alongside recto and separately 12L 4x12's.

 

[tbonesullivan]

How loud are you running it? It is an EL84 base class A amp, so it's not really voiced to have a lot of bass, as far as I can tell. I have a 2x12, and my DC-5 1x12 can definitely get more bass, just due to how it is voiced, even without the graphic EQ.

 

[rsilverst]

How loud are you running it? It is an EL84 base class A amp, so it's not really voiced to have a lot of bass, as far as I can tell. I have a 2x12, and my DC-5 1x12 can definitely get more bass, just due to how it is voiced, even without the graphic EQ.

that's a really really good point. i am actually not running it particularly loud. i typically have the channel master volume around 3 and output level around 3-4 -- and that's for live performance, with the amp mic'd. it has a lot more juice than what i'm using -- don't get me wrong, it is pretty loud at that volume, but i'm probably not pushing the power amp much at all. i am gonna try using an extension cab with a different speaker (alnico) to see if i can fill out the tone. in the end, it's probably better that the amp doesn't have mud, since you don't really need it in a mix. but it still would be nice to know it's there

 

[artisan4]

Does anyone know if the Mesa Maverick originally came with a Black Shadow speaker? I know the speaker in mine is a Celestion Vintage 30.

 

[rsilverst]

When I bought mine, it had the Black Shadow. I replaced it after some years with a Celestion Vintage 30. Recently, I replaced it again (25 years later) with a WGS Invader.

 

[rarebitusa]

Does anyone know if the Mesa Maverick originally came with a Black Shadow speaker? I know the speaker in mine is a Celestion Vintage 30.

A buddy of mine has had a Maverick Combo for many years, he bought it used from the original owner and it has a Mesa MC-90 which has the Black Shadow label.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Both of my 1x12 Mavericks had Vintage 30’s
I’m not normally a fan of V30’s but they sounded really hood in those amps
I wasn’t really into speaker swapping then, so I think that I left the stock speakers in

My current Mav is a 4x10
It originally had Jensen alnico speakers
They were ok but not really great
I replaced them with 2 ceramic & 2 alnico Eminence Legends
That really opened up the tone and let me hear a lot more of what the amp can do

 

[austin sonar guru]

Closed back cabinet or as others said, EQ in the effects loop.

IMHO, the effects loops in the Maverick and Blue Angel are the best I've ever used. Low noise, tube buffered and so very useful. I have no idea why anyone would convert these to serial.

You can completely eliminate the preamp section from your chain and use any preamp/modeler in to drive power tubes.

If I didn't have a closed back cabinet to try I'd use EQ. I favor 2X10 and 4X10" speakers so I'm weird.

 

[rsilverst]

What guitar/pickups do you typically use? Do you have/use any effects or pedals inline?

I will mention... that combo is a fairly small cab and doesn't seem, to my ears, to have the same presence or depth that a larger sized cab would provide. My preference is to pair a 2nd 1x12 with it.

Running an EQ pedal in the signal chain or in the fx loop can help.

I think I have some ideas about why the perceived lack of low end.

1. The 1x12" combo cabinet does seem to have a bit of a boxy sound that doesn't deliver as much low end. I have another 1x12" half open extension cabinet that is just a little bit deeper and larger, though not much. And that one produces more low end. And I have a 2x8" half open cabinet that also produces more low end. So it seems like the combo isn't a great low-end box
   
   
2. This may be the more important detail -- I typically run my channel master at around 10-11 o'clock, and my output level also at like 10-11 o'clock. Even for gigging, this is loud enough. But I found that if I turn the channel master to noon or above, and then adjust output level a hair down to compensate, the Bass control seems to "do more". The way I had the amp set before, I feel like the Bass control only made the amp sound more boxy, but if you start pushing the Master, the Bass provides... Bass! Again, more impressively so with a different cabinet.

In truth, I really don't know that for gigging or recording that extra bass is doing anyone any favors, especially for rock and pop music where the low end of guitar is just fighting with other instruments, and would be EQ'd away in mixing (case in point, I am usually putting a shallow sloped high pass filter on my guitar at around 150-200 Hz). For Blues or Jazz, or playing solo (or at home in the basement), that low end is fun to have though.

I tend to disregard (mistakenly) the fact that most amp demos we see online from reputable folks (e.g. That Pedal Show) are playing at ~100dB, so everything is coming alive. It's probably the case that I am not pushing the amp hard enough to really get the cone moving and delivering low end.