Marshall 20/20 versus Mesa 20:20

[Mantis]

So what about that Marshall?
Is it any good?
Does it give that typical Marshall sound?
(EL84 = not EL34)

How does it compare to the Mesa 20:20?

I want a poweramp for my Quad...
Marshall 20/20?
Or Mesa 20:20? 50/50? 2:90?

???

 

[CoG]

I have never used the Marshall 20/20. It's considerably cheaper than the Mesa but I am guessing it has that famous modern Marshall build quality :roll: I've heard people complain that the Deep switch is not really useful.

It won't give you the "typical Marshall sound." If you crank it loud enough to get lots of power tube saturation it will be closer to a Vox "about to explode" kind of sound, like the 20/20.

I'm very happy with the Mesa 20/20, it's loud as f!ck, stereo, and Dyna-Watt is really cool if you're playing a cleaner, dynamic-intensive style.

 

[AdmiralB]

I've never used the Mesa, but I owned the Marshall for a couple years. It's well-built and functional, the deep switch is really nice for low-volume use. The only gripe I had is that it really runs the piss out of the EL84s - it's fixed-bias (as, I imagine, is the Mesa) and the factory setting - printed on a label inside - is REALLY hot. It's got 400V on the plates, which IMO is really about 50V too high for a lot of tubes.

Anyway, I backed the bias off and it ran fine for years. Ultimately, though, no 1U tube amp is really what I want. Compare one to a 50W or 100W - even at the same volume - and the bigger amps just have more body and presence. The 1U form factor doesn't allow for enough transformer size.

 

[Mantis]

Let me give you some more background info...

I Used to have a Quad and a 50/50.
(and a Mark II before that and a Caliber 50+ before that...
It is fair to say I'm a Mesa addict...)

So.. In search for even better tone, I exchanged the Quad + 50/50 for a Mark IV.
At the time, I didn't have a good cabinet to accompany the 50/50, so the Mark IV just blew everything away.

But then ... after reading some stuff on this very forum...
I noticed that I really wanted two very different settings for clean and lead channels on the graphic EQ.
Which is not possible on the Mark IV.
And of course it IS on the Quad...

So I (again) bought a Quad.
And I have a great cabinet to go with it:
a Marshall vintage 4x12 with Greenbacks.

I tried the Quad with the poweramp section of the Mark IV,
through the 4x12 Greenbacks cab, and liked what I was hearing!
In fact, I like it way better through the 4x12 than through the Mark IV EV speaker.
And I noticed there is not that much difference between the Mark IV pre and the Quad.

Hence, I 'm selling the Mark IV combo
(WAY too heavy anyway, especially if you like the sound more through the 4x12.
I'm not carrying around a cab that big AND a heavy as **** hardwood combo...)

But now I still need a poweramp.

I have some experience with Mesa poweramps.
In my ears, the 50/50 sounded more "clean" or "thight" than the Mark IV simul class.
It just has much more warmth and breath to it.
So a 2:90 would be a logical choice. But it is so heavy and powerful.
I don't need all that.
I hear a lot of good stuff about the Mesa 20/20.
But I'm a bit afraid it will not have that same warmth as the big 6L6's I'm used to.
And I like the idea of a good poweramp in 1 rack unit!
The Marshall 20/20 is just an opportunity I have right now.
And it's cheaper...

I play blues, rock, jazz. mostly warm, classic guitar tones.
I like Robben Ford's tone. As well as some more classic blues voices, BB, ...
Old ACDC classic Marshall crunch, up to harder rock tones, never really into metal...

What would you recommend???

:roll:

 

[reo73]

I have read quite a bit the knock against the Marshall 20/20 has been an overheating problem. I have never played one so don't know how it sounds.

 

[AdmiralB]

The Marshall has an internal fan; the only way it's going to overheat is if the fan dies, or the side vents get blocked. If you rack it in a narrow case, the latter is certainly possible.

 

[reo73]

The Marshall has an internal fan; the only way it's going to overheat is if the fan dies, or the side vents get blocked. If you rack it in a narrow case, the latter is certainly possible.

If you read through the HC reviews you will see a lot of people had issues.

 

[AdmiralB]

If you read through the HC reviews you will see a lot of people had issues.

Who's going to post "this POS overheated - of course, it was because I blocked its vents"? People having issues with a product does not automatically imply fault of said product.

Having said that, in general I think any tube power amp in a small rack package is a bad idea. I think all the current Mesa stuff is really poorly designed, with too much emphasis on small size. The 295/395/Strategy amps were absolutely bulletproof, but trying to stick 100W or more into a 2U package is a compromise at best (small transformers), and potentially a recipe for disaster.

IMO Marshall has done better with their 50/50 and 100/100 amps in that they allowed plenty of space for transformers, cooling, etc. However they are needlessly complex.

 

[reo73]

If you read through the HC reviews you will see a lot of people had issues.

Who's going to post "this POS overheated - of course, it was because I blocked its vents"? People having issues with a product does not automatically imply fault of said product.

Having said that, in general I think any tube power amp in a small rack package is a bad idea. I think all the current Mesa stuff is really poorly designed, with too much emphasis on small size. The 295/395/Strategy amps were absolutely bulletproof, but trying to stick 100W or more into a 2U package is a compromise at best (small transformers), and potentially a recipe for disaster.

IMO Marshall has done better with their 50/50 and 100/100 amps in that they allowed plenty of space for transformers, cooling, etc. However they are needlessly complex.

That's fine if you want to come to that conclusion but the fact remains that people had issues and when I read reviews about the Mesa 20/20 none of those same issues occurred. My conclusion...there is a design flaw somewhere in the Marshall unit and I wouldn't want to take a chance on it.

As far as current Mesa products being poorly designed, I think you are on an island with that statement. But if you like lugging a 4U rack power amp around I guess that's your choice.

 

[tramp]

Hi, sorry if i'm late on this topic but busy ya-know.

anyways I have used the marshall a few years back with the tri and it generally worked well the deep switch was a nice addition too, but as I read further up the page it did overheat on the odd occasion and yup you guessed it right in the middle of a gig, and that made me have to get it out the rack take off the lid and aim a portable fan on it till it reastated ...with no issues.
so 1. sound wise very nice indeed, 2. if you do use one put a few tubeaxial fans above it

Regards

ps I use the mesa 20/20 now and have had no issues period!! (but then I still have 3 tubeaxial fans in my rack!!...once bitten eh!)

 

[Mantis]

Thanks for the replies so far, guys!

I've heard the stories about the overheating Marshall before,
so there must be something about it...

Tramp, what was it like soundwise?
You can make a comparison between the Mesa and the Marshall.
Do you feel different about them?
I hear the Marshall 20/20 does not produce your typical Marshall type sound.
Less high-mid edge. More warmth.
Makes sense. But how does it compare to the Mesa?
If they are very much alike, I might be tempted to go for the Marshall,
as it is way cheaper than the Mesa in second hand gear...

(I've got my eyes on one...)

 

[tiktok]

I've never had a problem with my 20/20 in regards to overheating (or anything really), but I've always had it in a Sus-4 rack, so there was plenty of ventilation.
Great amp.

 

[Mantis]

I just tried something out.

I still have that Mark IV.
2 more days...


And I have some THD Yellowjackets, who switch a 6L6 to a EL84.
I used these to get a feeling for the EL84 sound versus 6L6's.

Here's the setup:
- Quad preamp
- alternating poweramps: A: Mark IV poweramp. B: Fender Super reverb, with the 6L6's changed to EL84's
- 4x12 Marshall cab with Greenbacks.

Just a little test to see what I like most. It should be somewhat representative:
The Simul 2:90 is exactly like the Mark IV poweramp, only double.
The 2x EL84 is "almost" the same as half a 20/20...
Almost, because the Yellowjackets make it Class A as well.
Which is kinda the opposit as Dynawatts...
:?

Conclusion:
The EL84's get messy pretty soon. While the Mark IV poweramp just keeps on pumping out those bell like tones with authority and transparence. The EL84's get a smooth feeling, fluid. But I prefer the BIG 6L6 tone.

I'm just a little scared for my ears...

Where the EL84's get compressed, the 6L6's just have a LOT more dynamics. Headroom. Power. Articulation.
And yet, compared to the 50/50 somehow I find the Simul Class keeps a creamy flavour to it. (EL84's have a lot MORE of that creamy flavour, at the cost of headroom and articulation.)

 

[leadfootdriver]

Don't overlook a Peavey Classic 50/50. It's all EL84, and prolly sounds better than either one of those amps. I have one. It weighs about 30LBS in a 2 space and will come in cheaper than the Boogie 20/20.

 

[Mantis]

That's an interesting concept...

The flavour of EL84's, without the low headroom we usually associate with lower powered EL84 amps...
Interesting....

The Engl poweramp kinda does the same thing right?

And good value for the money, I bet.
Not a high resale value.

Exept.. it doesn't say "Mesa" on the front...

:wink: