Mark V lead tone vs rhythm tone...

[nicoroy123]

Hi, I currently have a Single Recto and I am considering the Mark V to improve my lead tone, based on the reputation of the MarkIV.

The kind of tone I am after is the Dream Theater/Petrucci tone. I know John used Mark IIC+ and Mark IV a lot in almost all of his studio album and even on tour.

Now the cool thing about the Mark V is that it seems to be able to produce both tones on channel 3. But the draw back of that is that my lead tone and rhythm tone would the same channel?

Not very practical for gigging, unless you buy two heads

This is why I am also considering the roadster, 4 channels so you can have rythm and lead on 2 different channel.

Any thoughts on that?
Or am I totally missing something?

 

[kiff]

yea, that's the "problem" with mark4's. R2 isn't heavy enough for a metal rhythm channel, for most players... but, you can use a volume boost for leads and stay on the lead channel

It will be interesting to see how R2 on the M5 works out for metal players.

 

[jdurso]

Hi, I currently have a Single Recto and I am considering the Mark V to improve my lead tone, based on the reputation of the MarkIV.

The kind of tone I am after is the Dream Theater/Petrucci tone. I know John used Mark IIC+ and Mark IV a lot in almost all of his studio album and even on tour.

Now the cool thing about the Mark V is that it seems to be able to produce both tones on channel 3. But the draw back of that is that my lead tone and rhythm tone would the same channel?

Not very practical for gigging, unless you buy two heads

This is why I am also considering the roadster, 4 channels so you can have rythm and lead on 2 different channel.

Any thoughts on that?
Or am I totally missing something?

As much as I love the Roadster, i don't think you'd be happy with it if its Petrucci's tone your after. Maybe I shouldnt say not happy, but you'd be happier with a Mark IV or Mark 5. The Mark IV (and I'm sure the Mark 5) are Petrucci's tone so its right there in a nice neat package, whereas with the Roadster you could definitely get a great lead tone, but it wouldnt be Petrucci's or even in that ballpark.

As for the Mark 5 Channel 3, I think what you're going to find is you can set it up in either the C+ or IV mode and dial in a sweet rhythm and then switch in a combination of the solo boost/contour/graphic eq to get your lead tone. I know when i had the Mark IV thats what I used to do..... i would even say it would be better with the Mark 5 because now you have the solo boost and the contour. So the way i envision it is i would setup channel 3 in the mode i like the best for my rhythm with the contour on and if i needed a lead tone switch on the solo and graphic eq. Without playing the amp in person its hard to say for sure but thats how i envision it.

 

[Octavarius]

From what I've heard from the amp so far, it seems that Channel 2 has plenty of gain in the Mark I mode, and I bet it would work well as a lead channel. You could always use a boost if you need more gain. And the Graphic EQ/Contour options make such switching even more versatile.

 

[JOEY B.]

So the way i envision it is i would setup channel 3 in the mode i like the best for my rhythm with the contour on and if i needed a lead tone switch on the solo and graphic eq. Without playing the amp in person its hard to say for sure but thats how i envision it.

From what I can see, the footswitch will toggle between Contour/No Contour or Graphic/No Graphic, but not Contour/Graphic. We will see when the manual is released. 8)

 

[danyeo1]

So the way i envision it is i would setup channel 3 in the mode i like the best for my rhythm with the contour on and if i needed a lead tone switch on the solo and graphic eq. Without playing the amp in person its hard to say for sure but thats how i envision it.

From what I can see, the footswitch will toggle between Contour/No Contour or Graphic/No Graphic, but not Contour/Graphic. We will see when the manual is released. 8)

You're right. From what i know you can use either the Graphic EQ, or the Contour for a channel. You can't switch between the EQ and contour for the same channel.

And i "brought up" the fact that the IIC+ and IV modes are on the same channel and i felt slightly dissapionted that we wouldn't be able to switch between the modes. Wouldn't it have been great to set a IV mode on channel 2 for a rhythm, then switch to a IIC+ mode on channel 3 for a lead. That type of flexibility would have been a lot better than what the V has to offer.

Some guys said i was complaining about it, but it seems I'm not alone in my opinion.

 

[denrad]

If they implemented the Channel cloning feature from the 2 channel Dual Rectifier amps, this could've overcome the limitation of only being able to use either the 2C+, IV, or the Extreme voicings in the lead channel.

This way, you would've been able to either replace either the Rhythm 1 or Rhythm 2 channels (if so desired) with an additional lead channel, but using a different voicing to Channel 3.

But I think it's still going to be a great amp!

 

[nicoroy123]

As much as I love the Roadster, i don't think you'd be happy with it if its Petrucci's tone your after. Maybe I shouldnt say not happy, but you'd be happier with a Mark IV or Mark 5. The Mark IV (and I'm sure the Mark 5) are Petrucci's tone so its right there in a nice neat package, whereas with the Roadster you could definitely get a great lead tone, but it wouldnt be Petrucci's or even in that ballpark.

Thanks for the input guys. Indeed the best Petrucci's guitar sounds (to my taste) have been recorded with Mark's amps:

Scenes From A Memory - Mark IIC+, Mark IV
Liquid Tension Experiment 2 - Mark IIC+, Mark IV

But I am still kind of seduced by the LoneStar circuitry in the Roadster, plus the "cloned" dirty channels of the roadster (3/4) for lead/rhythm combination.

Anyway, I think the best way to know if the Mark V would fits my needs will be to try one at the store. And I have the feeling that it would be an improvment of my Single Recto either way.

 

[TheBlackman]

You can get a great rythm and lead tones out of the roadster, if you like train of thought tones, they're in there. As far a leads on the roadster, a little boost helps out. I set mine with clean, light crunch, hard rock, and metal. Kick on the boost for what ever channel i'm on (other than clean!) for soloing. Unfortunately the nearest mesa deal to me is about 300+ miles away and they don't carry a whole lot other than a couple duals and stillettos, maybe a lonestar. I'd love to try out the V, but i really like my roadster so I'd better just not let curiosity get the best of me!

 

[phyrexia]

the mark i portion of the clip everyone's watching sounds like it has nearly as much gain as my mark IIIs...i don't think people should get too hung up on IIC+ and IV modes on the same channel. especially without playing the damn thing

 

[jdurso]

So the way i envision it is i would setup channel 3 in the mode i like the best for my rhythm with the contour on and if i needed a lead tone switch on the solo and graphic eq. Without playing the amp in person its hard to say for sure but thats how i envision it.

From what I can see, the footswitch will toggle between Contour/No Contour or Graphic/No Graphic, but not Contour/Graphic. We will see when the manual is released. 8)

Damn then i guess my vision was wrong. Honestly though after listening to clips of channel 2, i think it would make a killer rhythm channel. Enough gain to get the chug and using either the contour or graphic eq you'll be right in the pocket. But speculation only goes so far... i wish i could demo one now dammit! :evil:

 

[stevehollx]

Thanks for the input guys. Indeed the best Petrucci's guitar sounds (to my taste) have been recorded with Mark's amps:

Scenes From A Memory - Mark IIC+, Mark IV
Liquid Tension Experiment 2 - Mark IIC+, Mark IV

Pretty sure there wasn't IIC+ on SFAM, and that it was mostly a rectifier and triaxis at that point. Almost positive a MIV was not on that album. He didn't start playing MIVs until the full g3 tour, although he had one for 'Evening with Jordan Rudess' I think. Not sure about LTE2, but I think LTE 1 was all triaxis.

6DOIT has a IIC+ on most of it. The newest album or two have IIC+ and IV.

 

[nicoroy123]

So Wikipedia is lying then...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Petrucci

Look at the Equipment - Studio Albums section.

 

[shredi knight]

Thanks for the input guys. Indeed the best Petrucci's guitar sounds (to my taste) have been recorded with Mark's amps:

Scenes From A Memory - Mark IIC+, Mark IV
Liquid Tension Experiment 2 - Mark IIC+, Mark IV

Pretty sure there wasn't IIC+ on SFAM, and that it was mostly a rectifier and triaxis at that point. Almost positive a MIV was not on that album. He didn't start playing MIVs until the full g3 tour, although he had one for 'Evening with Jordan Rudess' I think. Not sure about LTE2, but I think LTE 1 was all triaxis.

He was using a Mark IV at least as early as the Falling Into infinity tour, for his lead tone (IIc+ was for rhythm, along with maybe the Triaxis as well):

FII rig:

It's also fairly well known that SFAM was largely IIc+ (probably a IV was used as well) and LTE 2 is all Mark IV (LTE 1 is all Triaxis).

 

[nicoroy123]

Wow this is a cool pix. And you are totally right.

From Wikipedia:

Equipment - Studio Albums
When Dream and Day Unite
Images and Words - Triaxis 2/90 (dirty), Roland JC120 for cleans. A Marshall preamp was used for "Metropolis Part 1"
Awake - Only album to be quadruple layered. 2 takes using Dual Rectifier, 2 takes using Mark IIC+
A Change of Seasons - Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Falling Into Infinity - Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Scenes From A Memory - Mark IIC+, Mark IV
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence - Mark IIC+, Dual Rectifier
Train Of Thought - Road King Series I
Octavarium - Road King Series I & II, Lone Star, Mark IV
Systematic Chaos - Lone Star, Mark IV
Suspended Animation (solo cd) - Roadking Series 1, Mark IIC+
Liquid Tension Experiment - TriAxis, 2:90 power amp
Liquid Tension Experiment 2 - Mark IIC+, Mark IV

 

[jdurso]

Wow this is a cool pix. And you are totally right.

From Wikipedia:

Equipment - Studio Albums
When Dream and Day Unite
Images and Words - Triaxis 2/90 (dirty), Roland JC120 for cleans. A Marshall preamp was used for "Metropolis Part 1"
Awake - Only album to be quadruple layered. 2 takes using Dual Rectifier, 2 takes using Mark IIC+
A Change of Seasons - Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Falling Into Infinity - Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Scenes From A Memory - Mark IIC+, Mark IV
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence - Mark IIC+, Dual Rectifier
Train Of Thought - Road King Series I
Octavarium - Road King Series I & II, Lone Star, Mark IV
Systematic Chaos - Lone Star, Mark IV
Suspended Animation (solo cd) - Roadking Series 1, Mark IIC+
Liquid Tension Experiment - TriAxis, 2:90 power amp
Liquid Tension Experiment 2 - Mark IIC+, Mark IV

There was no Mark amp on Systematic Chaos (album not tour)?

 

[newfinator]

Wow this is a cool pix. And you are totally right.

From Wikipedia:

Equipment - Studio Albums
When Dream and Day Unite
Images and Words - Triaxis 2/90 (dirty), Roland JC120 for cleans. A Marshall preamp was used for "Metropolis Part 1"
Awake - Only album to be quadruple layered. 2 takes using Dual Rectifier, 2 takes using Mark IIC+
A Change of Seasons - Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Falling Into Infinity - Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Scenes From A Memory - Mark IIC+, Mark IV
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence - Mark IIC+, Dual Rectifier
Train Of Thought - Road King Series I
Octavarium - Road King Series I & II, Lone Star, Mark IV
Systematic Chaos - Lone Star, Mark IV
Suspended Animation (solo cd) - Roadking Series 1, Mark IIC+
Liquid Tension Experiment - TriAxis, 2:90 power amp
Liquid Tension Experiment 2 - Mark IIC+, Mark IV

There was no Mark amp on Systematic Chaos (album not tour)?

I pretty sure Systematic Chaos was all Mark IV and Lone Star for both album and tour.

 

[shredi knight]

Wow this is a cool pix. And you are totally right.

Of course I'm right, I'm shredi (though I'd take anything Wikipedia say with a grain of salt). :wink:

I've been posting on the Petrucci board for years, and what equipment he used on what album/tour is all we pretty much talk about on the gear forum. :lol: The only thing that is highly debatable and isn't known for sure is what he used on Images & Words.

Here's a bigger version of that Petrucci rig pic in case you want to read the interview part of it (or get a better look at what's in his rack):

 

[jdurso]

Wow this is a cool pix. And you are totally right.

From Wikipedia:

Equipment - Studio Albums
When Dream and Day Unite
Images and Words - Triaxis 2/90 (dirty), Roland JC120 for cleans. A Marshall preamp was used for "Metropolis Part 1"
Awake - Only album to be quadruple layered. 2 takes using Dual Rectifier, 2 takes using Mark IIC+
A Change of Seasons - Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Falling Into Infinity - Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, TriAxis
Scenes From A Memory - Mark IIC+, Mark IV
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence - Mark IIC+, Dual Rectifier
Train Of Thought - Road King Series I
Octavarium - Road King Series I & II, Lone Star, Mark IV
Systematic Chaos - Lone Star, Mark IV
Suspended Animation (solo cd) - Roadking Series 1, Mark IIC+
Liquid Tension Experiment - TriAxis, 2:90 power amp
Liquid Tension Experiment 2 - Mark IIC+, Mark IV

There was no Mark amp on Systematic Chaos (album not tour)?

I pretty sure Systematic Chaos was all Mark IV and Lone Star for both album and tour.

Sorry not systematic chaos... i meant train of thought. I know he used the RKI but i'm pretty sure he used some mark iv on there.

 

[nicoroy123]

Anyway, I think the point is made.
Based on Petrucci's history with Mesa, if someone wants to nail his rhythm or lead tone, the Mark V should be a sure bet...