Mark V cabinet experiments - Nasal sounding cabinets.

[Supreeth]

Hey All,

I connected my Mark V yesterday to my two cabinets (Recto 2x12 and widebody 1x12 halfback) and immediately noticed that Channel 3 started sounding very nasal. So I disconnected my 1x12, raised my 2x12 off the ground so I could hear it somewhat at ear level and found the exact same thing!! It seems to go away when my 2x12 is on the ground. In order to isolate the problem I unplugged the cabinets completely and used the GT speaker emulator as a load/cab simulator, and the output of the simulator went straight into my recording interface and into my 2 M-Audio BX5A studio monitors. The nasal tone was completely gone and I was left with a very nice sounding tone indeed!!

I'm thinking that the nasal sound is because

a) My cabs are not fully broken in yet
b) The GT emulator emulates a Marshall 4x12 cab (Maybe my ears like the Marshall cab sound :shock: )
c) My cabs have some faulty wiring (probably not the case)
d) I was not feeling it when playing through the cab and was feeling it when playing through the emulator, and the Mark V captured by feelings each time perfectly :lol:

What do you guys think? Do you think something like a BBE sonic stomp to segregate the frequencies would help? I would hate to have to use my studio monitors/emulator to play the Mark V through all the time (though this allows me to crank up the amp as much as I want).

Thanks,
Supreeth

 

[EtherealWidow]

Well... since most of the tone is in the fingers... you probably have really nasally fingers. :shock: someone had to say it...

 

[Supreeth]

Well... since most of the tone is in the fingers... you probably have really nasally fingers. :shock: someone had to say it...

:lol: I was asking for that, I guess. Maybe I'll just need to get some nasal spray...um...finger ease :-D

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I have found the same phenomenon with new Boogie Cabs, I'd say let them break in.

 

[Mark Fore]

Coincidentally I am going through the EXACT same thing... and posted about it yesterday.

At band practice I noticed the nasal, high end, generally sub-par tone. The rehearsal place has solid concrete floors with thin carpeting. At home I have the cabs on the floor and it sounds great (wood floors, thick carpet, etc.)

I put the cab on wheels at home and it sounds bad. I looked into those Auralex GRAMMA's, but I'm not convinced that would do anything except lift it off the ground and I think we've covered how that sounds already.

What type of room are you playing in? What type of floors are under your cab?

This is definitely an issue and not a faulty cab. Mine are broken in plenty and I'm finding that there are a lot more variables to the tone based on non-amp/guitar related details like the floors in a room.

 

[Supreeth]

Coincidentally I am going through the EXACT same thing... and posted about it yesterday.

At band practice I noticed the nasal, high end, generally sub-par tone. The rehearsal place has solid concrete floors with thin carpeting. At home I have the cabs on the floor and it sounds great (wood floors, thick carpet, etc.)

I put the cab on wheels at home and it sounds bad. I looked into those Auralex GRAMMA's, but I'm not convinced that would do anything except lift it off the ground and I think we've covered how that sounds already.

What type of room are you playing in? What type of floors are under your cab?

This is definitely an issue and not a faulty cab. Mine are broken in plenty and I'm finding that there are a lot more variables to the tone based on non-amp/guitar related details like the floors in a room.

Hey man, thanks for the input! I agree that the environment plays a huge part in our overall tone especially through larger cabinets at band volume. My practice room has wooden floors and thick carpeting. I owned a Roadster for about a month when I was waiting for my Mark V and I did not have this issue with the Roadster at all. It was definitely an easier amp to "hear." With the Mark V my ears somehow seem to perceive the same tone settings in different ways at different times when hooked up to a cab in different environments. I experimented with using a IIc preamp model from the Boss GT-10 straight into the power section of the Mark V and the nasal sound disappeared (Not that the GT's modeling sounded all that great, but the nasal frequencies were gone).

I'm speculating now, but I think it probably comes down to the way different frequency bands are dissipated by the preamps. I wonder if the Mark V will sound as nasal to someone who is standing say 25-30 feet from the amp or through the PA? Would my Roadster that sounded so great to me at close quarters sound as good to folks standing at a distance? Probably not, and this would be a good experiment to conduct. Maybe the Roadster does not have as much treble as the Mark V. When I get home today after work I'm going to conduct a simple experiment which will be to roll back the tone knob on my guitar just a little bit and see if I can get rid of the nasal highs. If so that will be a good workaround/duct tape solution, but it will not solve the problem. I definitely think there is an issue here that Mesa might want to look into for v2 of the amp, but tone is subjective and not everyone may feel like the way I do

Thanks,
Supreeth

 

[al-az]

I gotta ask what speakeres are in your cabinets? I tried the mk 5 at my local store with a 4x12 vintage 30 cabinet and channell 3 does sound "nasally" through it. The entire channel is voiced that way. I brought it home and ran it through my 2x12 with celestion heritage g-65's, much less nasal. The third channel has an upper mid spike that comes through,especially through speakers that accentuate that frequency band like vintage 30's. I also EQ'd it out a little by boosting the mids. I know everyone talks about the "v" but honestly this is not my tone. I like mids, channel 3 is already scooped, you don't really need to scoop it anymore IMO. Of course remember, I am an old fart who likes classic rock/blues and unfortunately has a low frequency hearing loss (seriously).

 

[Supreeth]

Thanks al-az. I do have the v30 speakers in my cabinet. My 1x12 has the C90 Black Shadow speakers. You hit the nail on the head with the mid boost suggestion!

I tried a few things over the weekend to make the nasally sound go away, and I found what worked best was to set the amp controls blind to achieve a nice round tone. I want to be able to feel good when I play the amp, so may as well follow my ears with utter disregard for recommended settings or the settings "are supposed to be" to achieve a particular type of tone. I still haven't fully dialed in my channel 3 tone but the following settings take me really close to what I want to be hearing from channel 3.

Channel 3 (Any mode),
90W
Full power
Pentodes

Gain 3:00
Master 9:00
Presence 9:00
Treble 3:00
Mid 1:30
Bass 10:00
Output to taste (12:00 and above for band practice, 9:00 for bedroom)

EQ: Sliders in W shape. Start with the classic V shape and simply bump up the 750Hz to a little above the middle line.

 

[al-az]

Supreeth, congrats on letting go of preconveived notions and letting your ears guide you. My brother designs amps and hates when guys turn the knobs to their "usual settings" and then complain the amp doesn't sound good. The knobs are there to be used my brother always tells me. Just face it if there was only 'one right sound' we wouldn't need any tone controls. You should see how I set the EQ for channel 3, more like an inverted V. The channel is tight and focussed and for my taste doesn't need any added treble,you could even back your treble down a touch.

 

[Supreeth]

I agree with the notion of backing off the treble, but for ultra gain applications the treble knob needs to be boosted to act as a second gain stage in the mark V. Backing off the treble on the EQ sounds like a great idea which I will try out.

I've seen so many folks selling off their Mark V coz it sounded boxy (I will not deny I had thoughts of selling mine and getting a Roadster again with Channel 3 sounding nasal)The Mark V cannot be dialed in as you would a IIc+ or a IV. The mark V is its own amp and not a IIc+ or a IV. Channel 3 needs mids to be boosted in order to sound good and not nasal. I would recommend to anyone that they set their mid knob high (around 1:30 - 2:00) and then use the slider/preset for the mid cut if needed. Scooping mids on the knobs and again scooping mids on the EQ is asking for trouble and a thin paper tearing fizzy tone that is not easy on the ears IMHO.

 

[Supreeth]

Supreeth, congrats on letting go of preconveived notions and letting your ears guide you. My brother designs amps and hates when guys turn the knobs to their "usual settings" and then complain the amp doesn't sound good. The knobs are there to be used my brother always tells me. Just face it if there was only 'one right sound' we wouldn't need any tone controls. You should see how I set the EQ for channel 3, more like an inverted V. The channel is tight and focussed and for my taste doesn't need any added treble,you could even back your treble down a touch.

I hear you Funnily enough, I had a Triaxis preamp a while ago and when I sold it, one of the potential buyers did not go for it because it did not sound good with his usual settings which were gain, drive and treble at maximum regardless of what mode!! I play heavy metal but I cannot stand a thin tone be it while playing rhythm guitar or leads. My Roadster gave me a great sound and I had my mids set at 3:30 on channels 3 and 4!! With the Mark V I fell victim to "use the usual mark settings which is to lower the mids and bass; up the treble; set the EQ in V pattern" but not anymore. Most recommended settings in the Mark V manual actually give a range of 9:00 - 12:00 for the mids. I would suggest starting at 11:00 and working up from there.

As to "recommended settings" or what someone like Petrucci or Metallica use, the amp is but only one small component of their sound. There are so many sound enhancements (racks and racks of post amp effects, reverb, EQ) that the recommended settings might not be that big a factor anymore. I will admit I was shocked when the JP mark V settings posted on another thread did not work well for me. That said (and I'm not sure so Petrucci experts please weigh in), I think JP slaves his Marks into a 2:100 power amp which nobody really talks about (it sits at the bottom of the rack on the right if you look at the pics of his rig). The 2:100 amp would definitely add mids to what the amp puts out, and so there's an equilibrium being established here with respect to mids.

Lesson learned: When you have only one amp to play with, up the mids coz that's the meat of your sound

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[rispsira]

Hey supreeth!!

Im really glad youre liking your new amp. im from the triaxis group I have ordered my mark V heads in March and now thyre still at sea on their way here. I have been reading posts for a while now its difficult to wait!!

I still have my TA/290 and im anxious to compare it with the Vs

Takecare man!

 

[Supreeth]

Hey Man,

Good to see you here. You'll be very happy with your Mark Vs when they come. Since you still have your 290, I would definitely try an experiment to slave the Mark V into the 290 and engage the deep, half power, and modern switches and see how that sounds especially on channel 3!!

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[4406cuda]

I also was a member of the Triaxis board. I sold my Triaxis, 2:90, G Force, and Ground Control. I am much happier with my Mark V head and pedals. It is easy to move around and I am getting a great tone. With my Fulltone OCD, it is like having a 4 channel amp.

 

[rispsira]

Hey guys good to hear you are happy with your Mark Vs! I will surely try that as well as putting the TA through the Mark's poweramp just for the heck of it hahaha

4406cuda im curious about the fulltone OCD did you try other od pedals too like the modded TS9, bb preamp etc? cause i have these and i was wondering if it would be worth buying the fulltone or if it would be redundant. How are you using it?
Oh and another quick question why did you sell the Gforce arent u using any effects with your mark?

Takecare guys!!!

 

[rispsira]

Just found your old post!

"I picked up a Version IV Fulltone OCD yesterday. I use it on channel one fat when I am playing a song that needs a little bit of OD/Distortion. It basically acts as a 4th channel. I am very happy with it. It also sounds good with the Mark I on channel two."

 

[Supreeth]

I have both the Fulltone OCD v4 and the BB plus. The sound quality of both is amazing. I think the BB plus gets a slight nod over the OCD IMHO since it has two channels, and these two channels can be mixed together to create one monster channel or you can use each separately and make your Mark V a 5 channel amp. The BB plus can deliver tones close to a Marshall if dialed in properly, and is perfect for vintage solos. I personally like the BB plus coz I can use one channel for clean boost and another for some nice crunchy stuff