Mark V 25 quite low gain

[xap]

Hello,
I changed my loved Mini Rectifier for a new Mark V 25. Now I recognized it has quite low gain even with dimed gain and treble knobs. At least the in-the-room-sound (had no chance to record with it until now). As mentioned I had the mini recti and still have a Peavey 6534 and both have more than enough gain for my taste.
I play mostly Death Metal and sometimes some Death Core and without a boost I can't get this nice 'ooomph' for palm mutes. And the gain even drops in the extreme-mode (expected the opposite after reading some reviews).
I also recognized that the Mid-control in the 2nd channel has near to no effect on the sound. It shapes the lower mid-frequencys a bit but not drastically.
There are quite a view nice vids for the mini mark doing metal so maybe just the room sound seems to lack the gain?
Have you guys the same experience?

 

[screamingdaisy]

Rectifiers and 5150s have a cold clipping stage that causes them to produce more distortion with less gain. While the Mark V produces more "gain" than a Recto, it doesn't produce the same amount of aggressive distortion. It's a smoother, more compressed sound than what you're used to. The reason you're probably lacking "oomph" is because you've cranked the gain/treble and destroyed all the dynamics while trying to compensate for the lack of distortion. Try bringing the gain back down to 2:00-3:00, and bring the treble down while you're at it. Since you're into metal search Mesa's website for Petrucci's settings and play the amp for a week or so to get a feel for it.

Mesa's also done some youtube were people are going for a more djent sound if that's what you're after. Check out their youtube channel and watch the Mark V:25 videos as they show the settings being used in the demo. They should help get your head wrapped around how the EQ works.

And.... stop trying to make it sound like a Rectifier. If that's the sound you're after you have the wrong amp.

As for Extreme mode, turn up the presence until you get some sizzle.

 

[primal]

Mark IV mode is definitely the highest gain mode on the amp.

I would be interested in hearing a clip of how much gain you get with the gain and presence dimed.
Even for the hardest death metal I would be surprised if this amp didn't have enough gain. But hey, I'm getting up there in years so maybe its just what I am used to.

I don't play death metal, but have been playing Motorhead and Metallica a bit lately. The gain for me is maybe a hair past noon, with the treble maybe towards 1:00. And this is on the 2C+ mode.

Here is a cool clip from Ola. He shows his settings. Just noticed he has the gain and treble dimed. Wow. I would expect that to push the preamp tubes microphonic at higher volumes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32cpCr3j23A

If you need THAT much gain, try a boost. Every once in a great while I throw a boost on the crunch channel. Gain completely off on the overdrive (cheap mxr classic overdrive) with the output full boor to act as a clean boost. That will gives me a wall of distortion.

 

[xap]

Thank you for the advices, I'll try to record an example.
I already tried several examples from the Pertrucci vid and also the djenty vid (I realy like that sound) but for some reason the settings didn't sound as gainy as in the vids.
I know I'm comparing a recorded sound with a live sound therefore I'll try to record something myself.
I also have swapped the V1 tube because I thought maybe a faulty tube could cause the lack of gain. Maybe I should have swapped all tubes.
I realy like the sound of the mark (even better than the sound from the recti) but I also like it to have more gain on tap as needed (because you never know what could happen ;-)).

 

[screamingdaisy]

Like I say, I'd give it a week to feel out the new amp. You're already making changes and you're not even accustomed to it yet. I've been playing a Mark V since they came out and when switching between a Recto and Mark it still takes me a few days to get the feel for the other amp. Be patient.

And remember, what you're looking for is not necessarily more gain, but more distortion... or atleast the perception of more distortion. The presence knob, 2200 and 6600 sliders give you a lot of control over the shape of the top end response, and dialling more sizzle into your sound will make your tone sound more distorted.

As you may have figured out, on the IIC+/IV/Ex modes the channel EQ controls the sound pre-gain.... so you can shape how your guitar hits the rest of the preamp. On the other end the graphic EQ is post gain and controls how your amp actually sounds. So... use the channel EQ to adjust the feel, and the graphic to adjust the sound.

 

[elvis]

I think I know what you mean. I played a Mini Rec and a Rectoverb 25 for a long time and then moved to a Mark V 25, then a Mark V. I sold both.

That amp has TONS of gain, but as described by daisy, it gets very compressed with not so much mid-harmonic content. I would describe it as "too well-behaved". It's an amp that can have an edge, and is ideal for "liquid" tones. It can be brutally crushing. But not much mid-harmonic content. I also think part of what you describe as "gain" is really more "dynamic response". That punch-in-the-face that happens when you hit the strings. You can get a lot of that with the V if you turn the presence up, but you won't get the gravelly finish that a recto will give. Also, turning up the gain reduces the punch.

I wound up going to an RA100, both for a heavier low-end and a thick midrange saturation. The Marks can be buzzy, but not thick IMO. If Petrucci's tone doesn't do it for you, I doubt you'll get what you want from the Mark.

The Mark is a great amp, and I am sorely tempted by the V:35 combo. But I don't think I'll ever be happy with it.

 

[xap]

Hi,
first of all thank you guys very much for your advices!
Yesterday, I got the chance to record a little bit and there was the sound from the videos. As more or less expected just the room sound seems to lack the distortion.
I"ll play with it over the weekend and build up my mind, because I bought it quite cheap (Mesas are quite expensive here in germany) and could sell it for more than I've payed.

 

[Nicklotsaguitars]

I found that pushing the mids on the rotary dials, not the EQ, helps bring the distortion more forward in the sound. Not really increasing the level of distortion. But making it more prominent.

 

[toneseeker911]

Also the way Mark rotary eq works, if you dime the treble the mid control has very little signal to work with. Try keeping the treble rotary around 1:30-2 and use the graphic eq for more sizzle.
As daisy mentioned, you need to give it some time to let your ears adapt to the MkV sound. However, it will NOT sound like a recto .