Mark IV sounded good till retube...

[alphadog808]

Hi guys,
I just completely retubed my amp with these tubes from Dougs tubes...at his suggestion..

V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 - High gain JJ ECC83S
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V4 - Shuguang 12AX7C9
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7WA
4 matched Ruby 6L6s

Now, I dunno, I seem to have lost some/alot of bottom end/chunk and it sounds very...airy, kinda like a wide open Marshall. Might be due to less mids now..not sure...Also, it seems like I lost that "sag" that I liked. I've tried to change the settings in hopes of getting my old tone back, but no luck.

On the positive side, my reverb came *BACK*. That tube must have been seriously messed up, because now I have a TON of reverb!

That being said, any of you tube guys have any ideas if a choice of the above tube/s could have caused this change? I have to check my preamp tubes, so all I know is I was using JJ 6L6GCs before the retube; not sure if matters.

EDIT: I just checked my old preamps, 2,3, and 4 were Mesa Boogie 12AX7s. 1 and 5 had no markings, just a red stamp that said ECC83A...

 

[Shep]

I really like the JJ 6L6 in the mk IV, your old 1 and 5 pre amp tubes sound like Chinese..

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Not a fan on Tung Sols or JJs in the preamp....for me, it gave that same sound....airy and lifeless.

If you're not happy with the sound, you can always go back to a new set of stock mesa tubes...that what I plan to do come retube time!

 

[Platypus]

If it were me, I'd ditch the TungSoi and JJ in the preamp...

 

[ytse_jam]

If it were me, I'd ditch the TungSoi and JJ in the preamp...

how is it that Tung Sol's seemed to do miracles some months ago for many users here (maybe it was with Rectos mainly) and now many don't suggest them as good pre tubes? I was about to get a set of them for my Studio Pre but now I'm confused..

 

[Platypus]

If it were me, I'd ditch the TungSoi and JJ in the preamp...

how is it that Tung Sol's seemed to do miracles some months ago for many users here (maybe it was with Rectos mainly) and now many don't suggest them as good pre tubes? I was about to get a set of them for my Studio Pre but now I'm confused..

They work out with Rectos a lot better as do the JJ's but they don't sound very good in the Mark IV to my ears. Your best bet is to just buy a few of each as they're relatively cheap and just see what sounds best for you

 

[alphadog808]

Thanks guys! There are so many tubes I wasn't sure where to start. I'm thinking most likely the problem/change is from the preamp tubes and not the powertubes?

Speaking of powertubes, man, those Ruby tubes run WAY hotten than the JJ powertubes...

 

[Tyrant]

I put a mullard reissue in V1 and it made the amp sound alot better.

 

[psychodave]

I find that regarding pre-amp tubes, V1 and V5 have the most impact in a Mark IV.

 

[alphadog808]

Hmm..1 and 5, eh? What exactly do 1 and 5 do? 1 is the "input stage" and 5 is the "phase inverter". I have no idea what either does to the amp...

 

[6L6C]

My setup is similar to yours with my Mark IV and the amp has never sounded better.
V1 Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 high gain JJ ECC83S
V3 Penta Labs/Shuguang 12AX7C
V4 Unlabled/Shuguang 12AX7C
V5 balanced Sovtek 12AX7LPS
(4) SED 6L6GC WINGED =C=

But with the QC of tubes who knows it’s a crap shoot to some degree. I’m glad there are guys like Doug and Bob out there to burn in and match tubes ( and care about what they do) but until it’s in your amp, who knows? I can get the identical setup that I currently have next year and it may sound completely different.
Play around so you have a idea what you don’t like talk to Doug (he’s a great guy) and go from there.

 

[Jarrod]

JJ's sound sick in my Mark III. Miles upon miles better then the Sovteks I had. JJ's mad emy amp sound darker and punchier which I really like.

 

[guitardude05]

so different tubes can greatly alter your sound.... ive always been afraid to change from the stock mesa tubes.

 

[MarkIVwidebody]

The Rubys suck and Doug ripped me off...different story

 

[camsna]

The Rubys suck and Doug ripped me off...different story

Rubys are good and no -- he didn't.

 

[MarkIVwidebody]

Yes, he did. Told me whatever it took to get me to buy EL34's and after a day of use and trying everything I asked for half of a refund and he said no. He flat out lied. Too much to get into but I'll never buy from him again. He said the EL34's had more gain that 6L6 and could get me a KSE tone....right.

 

[camsna]

Friend. This is an example of poor consumer expectation, not predatory salesmanship. I have trouble seeing the motivation of the 'rip-off.' Was there some OTHER tube he could have recommended that would 'do' that sound and he sold you the more expensive one instead? I reckon he was working with the assumption that YOU KNEW how to approach that sound. And that these tubes would help with that. You were both working on assumptions about the other party but the ultimate responsibility lies with the consumer. If you thought that tubes alone would get you 'a KSE tone,' you have an incomplete understanding of their role in your amp. And it's not the reseller's responsibility to take back a now used (if even for only 10 minutes) product and eat that loss over the customer's unrealistic expectation.

With all the business that Doug does I sincerely doubt that he was being a risky predator over +/- 100 bucks.

Misunderstanding. Poor communication. Incomplete understanding of one another's questions and answers. I can see all of these as options. But 'screw somebody and risk my reputation for a few bucks.' Can't imagine it.

If you don't wish to do business with him again, that's fine. But now when someone searches Doug's Tubes they're going to get THIS (and the other) thread saying he's ripping people off. And he's not.

Like anybody, I'm SURE he has his bad days. But based on the experiences had by myself and dozens of colleagues, he's not out to rip anybody off. So it's not fair to slap that label on him.

You're unhappy with the transaction - I get it. But life will be easier to live when you operate under the assumption that sometimes things go wrong. And when they do - it's possible that it was 1) my fault - or - 2) nobody's fault.

By the by. With your amp (I'm assuming - I hope correctly - that it's a Mark IV widebody) and those tubes, you can certainly pull off a believable 'KSE tone.' Just work at it, be patient, and get an overdrive. And the Ruby EL34s are a better choice than any 6L6 for that sound.

 

[MarkIVwidebody]

Exactly. You weren't there (on the phone) so shut the **** up. He lied. Period. If he lies to one in a thousand customers, then I was the one. Quit defending something you know nothing about. How is my side of the story automatically wrong? Good thing we have a fair judicial system in America or judges like you would lock everybody up based on one side of the story. Buy from Doug if you want. BTW he also emailed me twice calling me names like douche nozzle and worse so get over it.

 

[camsna]

I feel stupid for having been baited into this. But I'd like to clear the air a bit. I'll do it in list format since it's easier for me to think that way.

1) You said "Exactly." Exactly what? I don't understand.

2) In our judicial system, the accused (in this case, Doug) must be proven guilty by the accuser (in this case, you). We do not have a fair judicial system. It is not now, never was and was never meant to be. Our judicial system is designed to be just. Not fair. I didn't accuse you of being guilty of anything. All I did was suggest that before calling someone [with an otherwise impressive reputation] out [publicly!] as a crook, it behooves one to examine the possibility that a series of misunderstandings and communication blunders could render a similar result as being lied to and screwed over.

3) "...judges like you would lock everybody up based on one side of the story..." Um. I'm tempted to leave that one alone. But that seems like a really, really, (seriously - really) silly thing to say.

4) "Quit defending something you know nothing about." Of course I know something about it. What you've told everyone here on a public forum. I mean - I can't possibly know nothing about it.

5) "Buy from Doug if you want." I appreciate the permission.

6) "BTW he also emailed me twice calling me names like douche nozzle..." Not touching this one except to say that "douche nozzle" (in and of itself) is about the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. I think it's the "schnozzle" sound.

7) "...so get over it...." Get over what? This statement confuses me.

8) 'You weren't there so shut the f%&# up.' What are we, on Ricki Lake?

Take a breath. Re-freaking-lax. You're in the company of friends. Even if I argue or twist up the hairs in your butt crack, it's not malicious or mean-spirited. I'd defend you the same way if somebody called you out like that. I'm only here to (try to) help.

And - very lastly - it's rude to tell somebody to "shut the f%&# up" and it doesn't generally lead to any kind of productive dialogue or end-result. As your friend, I recommend that you don't say that to people any more. Especially me. I didn't care for that.