Mark IV Problem? (Clip inside)

[J.L.C.]

So I'm trying to figure out if there's a problem with my amp, cab, speakers, or if I'm just too picky.

But, I hear an annoying buzz/fizz with single note stuff on my recently purchased Mark IV. Clean channel sounds great, R2, sounds pretty good, but I really notice this buzz on the lead channel.

The amp was made in 2001 and was owned by 2 guys before me, the guy before me got it on ebay and had it shipped by UPS. I noticed the epoxy and label on on the transformer beside the power tubes has some worn/melted spots and the AC receptacle is kinda loose.

The cab is a Bogner 212 with V30s, which also had 2 owners before me.

The guitar is a solid mahogany body and neck, through the bridge pickup which is an SD custom-5 (SH-14).

Amp settings, lead channel:
Gain - 8 pulled
Treble - 8
Bass - 2.5
Mid - 2.5
Drive - 7.5 pushed
Presence - 2 pulled
Channel Master - 4
Output Master - 2
GEQ - Typical V

Full power, harmonics, Simulclass (EL34 and 6L6)

Recorded with an SM57 > Audio Buddy > Audiophile 24/96

The playing isn't anything, I was just trying to see if I could capture the buzz I'm hearing (complete recording n00b).

The clip:
http://www.mp3lizard.com/download.cfm?id=25939

 

[MusicManJP6]

I couldn't really hear anything out of the ordinary to be honest. I noticed maybe a LITTLE fizz at the beginning during the single note playing, but I don't think there is anything wrong with your amp.

 

[J.L.C.]

It could be my ears

I've been playing through a Vamp2 for the last couple years and haven't heard a real amp in a long time.

It's just that fizz on the single note stuff that I don't hear on other people's clips.

I hear it through the C90 in the combo as well, but it's more pronounced through the cab.

Thanks for listening

 

[6L6C]

Same i don't hear anything wrong either, nice and tight sounding really.
Maybe a little less gain but thats just my taste.

 

[shredi knight]

I think your problem stems from using a modeler for so long. I think what you are hearing is the second harmonic in the tone spectrum. It is completely normal and inherent to tube amps, and is actually considered a desirable thing (it's part of what gives tubes amp their complex tonal character).

Most modelers aren't going to have this as part of their sound. The one exception I know of is the Fractal Audio Axe FX, which does have the second harmonic. When I got mine, I noticed it on high gain tones too (mainly at low volume, it didn't seem to stand out when turned up). I even PMed the Axe FX's creator on their message board and asked him what that "sound" was :roll: and he explained to me about the second harmonic. Coming from using a Line6 Vetta 2 and other modelers before it, I guess I wasn't used to hearing it.

 

[MesieBooga]

I don't hear anything goofy. Maybe the Gate on the V-Amp is doing something.

 

[J.L.C.]

I think the point about being used to a (cheap) modeler might be right on the money. One thing you can't really get out of a plastic toy is harmonics....

I don't know if it was the Gate or just the fact that the V-Amp pales in comparison to an actual amp. But it served it's purpose as far as letting me practice through headphones.

I likely just need to let my ears adjust to a real amp, through real speakers, at real volumes.

I still may do some speaker experimenting though, not sure I'm sold on the V30s

Any thoughts on the OT epoxy? Any cause for concern there?

Is the wiggly AC receptacle something I can fix myself?

I'm going to be pulling the chassis in a couple days when my headshell arrives so I figure I might as well check on that while I'm in there.

Thanks for the help guys

 

[King Tone]

It sounds fairly normal to me...based on the settings you are using. I am not so keen on the graphic eq having a big v myself. A lot of guys like that but it is not what I like. Also you do have the treble on 8! If there is fizz to be heard I think having that much treble would be the cause. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MikeK]

I would have said something very similar to what King Tone shared. And yet, not having played with a MarkIV I don't want to assume anything ... but treble on 8 does seem high if you're thinking too much buzz. I would also concur that maybe dropping the gain down a bit might help? That GEQ is also wonderful, but it's been very sensitive in my experience, just little tweaks really affect the sound. I'd say adjust that but go slow with it ... maybe a touch off on the highs and then that middle slider can make some magic happen?

There's something else I want to add, something I read BBKing said about his hearing waining because of too much close proximity to loud speakers ... finding it harder to hear the full range of sound and hearing mostly highs now ... You know our ears are just as valuable, if not more than our fingers and they are very sensitive to pressure as well as volume.

Anyway, the clip of your amp sounds fine from here.
Boogies sure have a lot of tweaks in them to discover.

 

[breogan]

I think your problem stems from using a modeler for so long. I think what you are hearing is the second harmonic in the tone spectrum. It is completely normal and inherent to tube amps, and is actually considered a desirable thing (it's part of what gives tubes amp their complex tonal character).

That second harmonic thing is something that I noticed when I played thought the overdriven channel of my friends LSC. Its a bit annoying in the first time, once you get used to it gives the sound a very strong base. Anyway I don't think is something common in tube amps. This LSC was the only amp with kind of tone. All the marshall, fenders, Engl and DIY amps I've played didn't have this characteristic.

 

[shredi knight]

I think your problem stems from using a modeler for so long. I think what you are hearing is the second harmonic in the tone spectrum. It is completely normal and inherent to tube amps, and is actually considered a desirable thing (it's part of what gives tubes amp their complex tonal character).

That second harmonic thing is something that I noticed when I played thought the overdriven channel of my friends LSC. Its a bit annoying in the first time, once you get used to it gives the sound a very strong base. Anyway I don't think is something common in tube amps. This LSC was the only amp with kind of tone. All the marshall, fenders, Engl and DIY amps I've played didn't have this characteristic.

I'm no expert on this stuff, so I could be wrong, but all I hear in that clip is what I was told is the second harmonic (or second overtone, I can't really remember what it's called.........or maybe those are the same thing :? ). Speaking of Engl, after getting the Axe FX, I did later remember that you could hear it with the Blackmore head I had for a short time before that.

Also J.L.C., the higher you have the gain or treble seems to make it stand out more, so you might try lowering those (personally that's against my nature, I like a fairly bright tone with lots of gain ).

 

[J.L.C.]

It sounds fairly normal to me...based on the settings you are using. I am not so keen on the graphic eq having a big v myself. A lot of guys like that but it is not what I like. Also you do have the treble on 8! If there is fizz to be heard I think having that much treble would be the cause. Just my 2 cents.

I think that stems from my interpretation of the manual. I get the impression that the treble control isn't exactly a treble control, but more of a gateway for the tone stack. But, I think I'll experiment with backing it off a bit.

There's something else I want to add, something I read BBKing said about his hearing waining because of too much close proximity to loud speakers ... finding it harder to hear the full range of sound and hearing mostly highs now ... You know our ears are just as valuable, if not more than our fingers and they are very sensitive to pressure as well as volume.

Anyway, the clip of your amp sounds fine from here.
Boogies sure have a lot of tweaks in them to discover.

Funny you should mention that. I'm actually an audiologist, so I'm VERY cautious when it comes to sound levels and preserving my hearing. I wear ear plugs any time I go to shows or if I'm playing at loud volumes (especially if there's a drummer around!)

I definitely need to do some more tweaking!

Also J.L.C., the higher you have the gain or treble seems to make it stand out more, so you might try lowering those (personally that's against my nature, I like a fairly bright tone with lots of gain ).

I think you guys are all right. I knew this amp was a tweaker's dream, and I consider myself a tweaker I've just been a bit lazy. I think what I really needed to hear was that there's nothing obviously wrong with the amp. I like saving money with used gear......but the mystery of not knowing what the amp has been through can be a liiiiittle unsettling.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

I'm still looking for input on the epoxy and wiggly AC receptacle, so if anyone has any thoughts or experience - I'd love to hear it.

 

[sbalderrama]

I'd try backing down the treble, bumping the mid, and playing with the 750 slider. Small adjustments in 750 make a huge difference in the resulting sound. Also try backing down the 6600 a bit, and check to make sure you don't have presence cranked.

Alot of times "fizz" is a function as volume as well, alot of it goes away when you get the speaker moving a bit. If I'm playing at low volumes I'm almost always bringing the treble down and pushing the mids up a bit.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I'm still looking for input on the epoxy and wiggly AC receptacle, so if anyone has any thoughts or experience - I'd love to hear it.

I wouldn't worry about these two issues. Neither should be considered a real 'problem'. If the power cord is wiggling loose from vibrations from the cab then you may need to look into tightening it up somehow, but otherwise leave it alone and just play! :wink:

 

[dodger916]

Funny you should mention that. I'm actually an audiologist, so I'm VERY cautious when it comes to sound levels and preserving my hearing. I wear ear plugs any time I go to shows or if I'm playing at loud volumes (especially if there's a drummer around!)

Not to hijack here, but what kind of ear plugs do you use?

 

[J.L.C.]

Right now I just use non-custom ER musician's plugs (-20dB) http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/profmusearpl1.html

These run about 20 bucks and music stores usually carry them, or you can get em online. This place has em for $15 http://www.earinc.com/p2-specialty-musician-er20.php

I'm not gigging or even playing with a drummer at the moment, but I wear em for concerts or bar shows. It's great not having your ears ring after a show!

They aren't as well tuned as a custom plug, but they're much better than a foam plug - those just muffle the sound and have most people either taking them out or only putting em in half way.

If you are gigging regularly or even practicing with a full band regularly, custom plugs are well worth the investment. It's any easy procedure, basically the audiologist will put some goop in your ear that is a lot like silly putty, that hardens up and is sent off the the manufacturer. A company called Starkey makes some good ones, as does Etymotic http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx

They offer a bunch of different ones for different purposes (i.e.; construction/factory work, and a few different tunings for musicians). It doesn't take a whole lot of attenuation to bring things down to safe levels and the tuning of the custom plugs will let you hear everything in the music - just quieter. I think at least 15dB is a good idea, 25 is better, especially if you're cranking it up a few times a week.

 

[mr_fender]

I would have to agree with previous posts - Treble and gain sounds too high. For my Mark IVa I find the old Fender "Magic 6" rule to work quite well for all of the channels. For those not familiar with the Magic 6, that's Gain=6, Treble=6, Bass=3, Mid=2. You can also swap the Bass and Mid (Bass=2, Mid=3) if it gets a bit tubby with warmer sounding guitars. I use this as a general starting point and tweak from there. For the Lead Channel, I start with the Gain and Drive both at 6 and again tweak from there. The old Magic 6 works great and gives a good ballanced starting point. The Mark IV has A LOT of gain and can get fizzy and mushy if you push it too high. If I push Lead Gain up high, I usually back Lead Drive back down a bit to ballance it back out. Same holds true with pushing Lead Drive up high. This gives me different shades of grit without getting too saturated, compressed, fizzy, or mushy sounding. Many players make the mistake of pushing the gain up when they feel their sound is weak. Huge sounds are usually the product of multi-tracking, multiple amps/cabs/mics, etc. and not high gain settings or using distortion pedals. The latter usually just makes your tone more fizzy and thin sounding. Also, crank up that volume! Tubes need some juice to really sing!