Mark IV help!

[zqcebtmu]

I've recently got a Mark IV A rackmount. I'm having some trouble dialing in my tones. I can get some great powerchord tones. But once i try to chug away at some palm mutes, the bass is REALLLY flabby. I'm trying to get some "omph" sound into my palm mutes. I found that the bass level needs to be around 3 to get a nice full sound when i play chords but it causes the palm mutes to be flabby. I tried many different cabs as well. V30 legacy cab, mesa 2x12 rectifier cab. All the same... Is it because it's the A version? Or is the IV just not for me? Another thing is, do i really need to crank it up? I found that playing in 30 watt mode just doesn't have enough gain to get that aggressive tone i'm looking for. HELP!!!

 

[ruso]

I've recently got a Mark IV A rackmount. I'm having some trouble dialing in my tones. I can get some great powerchord tones. But once i try to chug away at some palm mutes, the bass is REALLLY flabby

I found that the bass level needs to be around 3 to get a nice full sound when i play chords but it causes the palm mutes to be flabby

Didn't you already answer your question? Keep the bass down on the main dial to keep it tight but add some on the graphic EQ for more oomph.

 

[zqcebtmu]

Oops, what i meant is that I can't get enough OOMPH out.

 

[Lopp]

Similar sitch here.

The Mark IV is said to give a smoother tone, while the Rectos are more aggressive. I tolerate it because I do sometimes like the IV smoothness. However, other times, I wish the tone was more huge, even after maxing a "V" on the graphic EQ. Fortunately, I have other amps that give me the huge tone.

You may want to check out a Recto for a palm muting chug fest.

 

[SeasonOfPain]

To borrow Misha/Bulb's palm-muting terminology, the IV is more djenty and the Recto is more djunty.

You can get more low end from a Recto than a Mark IV, but at the expense of tightness when doing faster, more intricate rhythms. That's where the Mark IV shines. The recto tends to get very indistinct with a lot of low end. In fact, a lot of people put a tubescreamer in front if it for that reason (reduce the low end, and tighten it up).

One thing to keep in mind is that too much low end and you start treading into bass guitar territory. If you're just playing solo at home, you may feel the added low end sounds better, but in a band situation you'll turn the band's low end to mud with too much bass.

 

[glenecho]

I know this thread is a bit oldish, and I haven't read all the replies, but the overwhelming thing I noticed is that a Dimarzio Super Distortion pickup is being used in the bridge...and that right there raises some red flags.

The SD is a great pickup if you want that specific tone...but it is not a warm pickup and while I don't know what Petrucci uses (I'm one of what appears to be only 3 Mark IV users worldwide that doesn't listen to Dream theatre) I can guess that a Super Distortion isn't one of them. It isn't a smooth or warm pickup. It's a pickup that is pure 80's metal tone...best played through a JCM 800 for NWOBHM type sounds. It has a distinctive tone that sounds just slightly like a wah pedal notched somewhere. I would start by getting a different bridge pickup for sure...

 

[chris_EIT]

i agree with seasonofpain.
Even alone I try to play with settings that would suit a band situation. The Mark IV IMO gives the best representation of this. Even with the extreme V you will still cut in a mix and not become a second bass guitar. It's this quality that I love about the amp
Hooray for Mark IV hehe.
I find also having the 80hz slighter high up and the 240hz lower to be a greater sound
cheers!

 

[zqcebtmu]

Yeah i do understand the difference between the IV and Recto. I've played through both side by side and I just don't dig the recto sound. Right now i only play my mark IV in band situation. Let me explain more about my problem. My sound cuts great. But my palm mutes aren't cutting out enough and gets covered up. A lot of riffs my band plays include palm mutes and because the palm mutes aren't really coming out, i'm loosing the hype i get from the riffs i play

 

[bryan_kilco]

I, too, feel that the Mark IV is a "flappy" or "saggy" sounding amp.

I hear awesome, beautiful recordings of it.....but live it just isnt totally pleasing to my ears. Maybe its the fact that my Lead Bass/Mid/Treble knobs dont work at all? could just that section of EQ make that much of a difference?

 

[trem]

I, too, feel that the Mark IV is a "flappy" or "saggy" sounding amp.

I hear awesome, beautiful recordings of it.....but live it just isnt totally pleasing to my ears. Maybe its the fact that my Lead Bass/Mid/Treble knobs dont work at all? could just that section of EQ make that much of a difference?

You've answered your own question. Get it fixed. Those knobs control how the signal is shaped before being gained-up. Yes, very important.

 

[chris_EIT]

wait hold up... your knobs DON'T work???
Man even if I have my bass and mid knob set to where I like them PERFECTLY if I move the treble knob 1 notch either side the tone changes heaps for me! Get those puppies changed and fixed!!

Once you do try this ok
Lead gain pulled 8, treb 7, bass 2.5, mids 4, lead drive pulled 7, presence PUSHED 3.5

GEQ: 80hz just below top line, 240hz between bottom and middle line, 700hz just above bottom line, 2.2khz just a bit below middle line, 6.6 just above the middle line
That should set your palm mutes right up
My band used palm muted notes about 95% of the time so you should be sweet
CHeers mate

 

[phyrexia]

OMG will you either stop trolling or stop talking about an amp you've never been able to fully use?

Hah the forum censors o m f g

I, too, feel that the Mark IV is a "flappy" or "saggy" sounding amp.

I hear awesome, beautiful recordings of it.....but live it just isnt totally pleasing to my ears. Maybe its the fact that my Lead Bass/Mid/Treble knobs dont work at all? could just that section of EQ make that much of a difference?

 

[Force]

I've recently got a Mark IV A rackmount. I'm having some trouble dialing in my tones. I can get some great powerchord tones. But once i try to chug away at some palm mutes, the bass is REALLLY flabby. I'm trying to get some "omph" sound into my palm mutes.

Another thing is, do i really need to crank it up? I found that playing in 30 watt mode just doesn't have enough gain to get that aggressive tone i'm looking for. HELP!!!

Okay, 1st off, make sure you are using ch 3, w/ both ch gain and Lead Drive on at least 7, with EQ engaged.

The size cab you use will make a difference, I recommend a V30 loaded 4x12 such as the Legacy or Recto cab you mention, but any 4x12 with decent spkrs that allow an early to medium break up should do just wonderful. High powered speakers with late break up characteristics will need considerably more master volume (say 3 to 4 or higher) to really get them chugging well for palm mutes.

You DO need to back off the Bass maybe as low as 0 or 1, no more than 3 or the bass will get too flabby. I recommend using the EQ to get the desired bass sound you need. Having said that, try starting out with the amp set to Triode, Class A, and Harmonics. Optionally, you can use Simul Class instead of Class A.

The key is going to lie in the EQ setting, and there you start with an extremly deep "V", center slider all the way down to start off, then adjust each slider one at a time to taste while you are chugging/palm muting. You will notice very obvious changes in the sound as you move the sliders even slightly.

Also pull out the gain knob for "Fat", and crank up that lead drive on channel 3, as this will really increase the "chug" factor, and of course make sure your EQ is actually on (active)!! I guaran-****-tee you you will get a ton of chugga chugga, provided your tubes are in good shape.

You do not need to be in full power to get the chugga thing happening, but I do recommend you have the master volume above "2" to give the tubes a chance to breathe and do their thing. I can get a full out recto tone w/ my Mk IV all day long.

good luck and have fun!! Once you get in the zone, the amp is very easy to get great tone out of, but it just take a little time initially to get to know it. I have had my Mk for for over two years, and I am still finding new tones all the time, it is really amazing.

Also, if you are still experiencing a lot of low end flab, you might try swapping out the two end power tubes for EL-34's, and see how that works for you.

 

[SeasonOfPain]

Maybe its the fact that my Lead Bass/Mid/Treble knobs dont work at all?

Um, yeah, that would kind of limit your options on getting a good tone.

But back to the OP's comments:

Yeah i do understand the difference between the IV and Recto. I've played through both side by side and I just don't dig the recto sound. Right now i only play my mark IV in band situation. Let me explain more about my problem. My sound cuts great. But my palm mutes aren't cutting out enough and gets covered up. A lot of riffs my band plays include palm mutes and because the palm mutes aren't really coming out, i'm loosing the hype i get from the riffs i play

One thing I've found is that on recordings with deep-sounding palm-mutes, a lot of the low end of the "chug" doesn't come from the guitar at all... it comes from the bass playing in tight syncopation with the guitar (and often the kick drum as well).

If anything, I'd increase the presence slightly to make your palm mutes stand out more from the bass.

 

[zqcebtmu]

I had a practice today with the IV and **** it sounded great :shock: We moved to a bigger room today and I think it was actually the old room's problem :lol: With the bigger room, I could crank it louder and I also re-dialed in the amp and everything is great now!! I'm still not getting enough *OMPH* from the mutes but i think i'll sacrifice the omph for more clarity. Plus i REALLY love the mid range grind from the A version. I was in the music shop the other day playing a IV-B into a Road King cab. It sounded too smooth with no aggressiveness. I used the similar settings to my A but adjusted to suit the B's voicing. I was thinking i should switch to a B version but now i'll stick to the A. Anyways, enough ranting!! Thanks for all the help guys! Rock on 8)

 

[chris_EIT]

cheers dude
Glad it's working well for you, the Mark IV is just one of those finicky amps, never give up though, there's oodles of tone in there

 

[ajtooke]

Good to hear you worked it out. Especially without putting the middle EQ slider way at the bottom, I still don't understand how people can think that sounds good.

 

[chris_EIT]

oh god, the HORRID middle slider dip! No thank you, it stays just on top or ABOVE the bottom line, the 240hz gets the drop from me, sounds much better to my ears, not as boomy!

 

[bryan_kilco]

OMG will you either stop trolling or stop talking about an amp you've never been able to fully use?

Hah the forum censors o m f g

I, too, feel that the Mark IV is a "flappy" or "saggy" sounding amp.

I hear awesome, beautiful recordings of it.....but live it just isnt totally pleasing to my ears. Maybe its the fact that my Lead Bass/Mid/Treble knobs dont work at all? could just that section of EQ make that much of a difference?

I just didnt think that those EQ knobs would really make THAT much of a difference compared to the grapic EQ.

Yeah, I gotta get it fixed. Don't rip on me dude! I found a guy in MD that says he can check it out...I just dont know if I should take that route, as it will probably be much cheaper, or send it to Mesa where I KNOW it will get done right.

 

[ANIMATED SUSPENSION]

OMG will you either stop trolling or stop talking about an amp you've never been able to fully use?

Hah the forum censors o m f g

I, too, feel that the Mark IV is a "flappy" or "saggy" sounding amp.

I hear awesome, beautiful recordings of it.....but live it just isnt totally pleasing to my ears. Maybe its the fact that my Lead Bass/Mid/Treble knobs dont work at all? could just that section of EQ make that much of a difference?

I just didnt think that those EQ knobs would really make THAT much of a difference compared to the grapic EQ.

Yeah, I gotta get it fixed. Don't rip on me dude! I found a guy in MD that says he can check it out...I just dont know if I should take that route, as it will probably be much cheaper, or send it to Mesa where I KNOW it will get done right.

The tone controls make a huge difference because they are before the preamp, the graphic is after. Therefore the tone controls affect the gain more whereas the graphic doesn't.