Mark IIC+ clean settings

[BLCBolivar]

Two months ago I just purchased a Mark IIC combo and had it upgraded by Mike B. at Mesa to a C+. I couldn't be happier with my purchase. This is a 60 watt non EQ with reverb. I bought an MXR 10 band EQ to compensate for the lack of a stock EQ. I have found numerous C+ overdrive/crunch settings on this site which all sound awesome. Now am looking for settings that would give me a good clean Fender Twin/Bassman tone. My goal is to own only one amp that pretty much does it all and I'm fairly confident this amp can do it. I'm just not real savvy on dialing in great tones. Does anyone have any settings which I am looking for? Any additional overdrive settings would be appreciated also.

Thanks for your time.
B.

 

[chipaudette]

In my opinion, how picky are you with regards to getting the Fender clean? Have you owned a good Fender tube amp before...do you know and love that tone from first-hand experience? If so, you're going to end up disappointed. I own a Mark IIC upgraded to a IIC+ *and* I own a Fender Deluxe Reverb Re-issue (DRRI). I've given up on trying to make the IIC+ sound like the DRRI.

Here are the challenges:

1) The Fender has a very different feeling to its bass and low-bass. It's not necessarily that the Fender has more bass or less bass, it's just that it feels different. I think that the Fender might extend to deeper frequencies, but doesn't have quite as much in the low mids. On the Boogie, be sure to pull the "bass shift" knob or pull the "pull gain". IMO, don't do both...you get too much low-mids.

2) The speaker in the boogie (assuming you have an EVM) and in the Fenders sound quite different. The EVM has more mids and upper mids. While that's super-great for lead work (either lead or clean), it changes the feel of the clean rhythm sound because it changes the relationship of lows to mids and of highs to mids. The speaker could be an important contributor to my feelings on the bass frequencies as discussed above. The ear gets very easily tricked by what's happening at other frequencies...so more mids from the EVM could easily give the perception of odd bass (see above) or odd treble (see below).

3) The high high treble on the Fender and Boogie feel quite a bit different. On the Fender, the "bright" switch on the Twin (it's permanently active in the DRRI) puts a nice sparkle on the clean rhythm playing. On the boogie, the frequency cutoff and intensity of the "pull bright" ends up not being the same (because of where we tend to run Volume 1 on the boogie). It just sounds different. Plus, the boogie has a presence knob whereas the Fenders don't. The presence is a kind of high-treble control, so it's shape will be different out of the boogie than in the Fender.

4) The Fender's reverb (if you're talking about the Twin or Deluxe, but not the bassman), the reverb is of a whole different class. The boogie reverb is too short and not as sweet. The Fender reverb is long and luscious and has a magical wetness when palm muting.

My overall suggestion, therefore, is to not try to clone the Fender sound. If you know the Fender sound and feel, you'll never recreate it on the Boogie. I would simply shoot for a good clean sound. There are several approaches. The most fender-like is to do something like:

Vol1: 6, pulled
Treb: 4-7
Bass: 4, pulled (very different for single-coil versus humbucker...turn down for humbuckers)
Mid: 3
Master: 2, not-pulled
Presence: 5-7

and here's the heretical bit: use the Graphic EQ to scoop the mids more. And to bring up some of the lowest lows and the highest highs. That'll get you some of that classic blackface Fender "mid scoop".

If you've got humbuckers, here's an alternate clean sound, which is much more compressed

Vol1: 10, pulled (though, at 10, the pull bright doesn't actually do anything)
Treb: 3-4
Bass: 0-1, not-pulled
Mid: 3-4
Master: 2, not-uplled
Presence: 5-7
Graphic EQ off.

Chip

 

[BLCBolivar]

Thank you very much Chip. I realize I am comparing apples and oranges in regards to C+ and Twin/Bassman amps. Just a somewhat similar sound will suffice. I haven't tried your settings yet but I will tonight.

Thank you again for your time and advice on this.
Brian

 

[chipaudette]

Also, on the Fender side, be aware that the Twin (assuming you mean blackface Twin) and the Bassman (assuming you mean tweed bassman) are quite different beasts from each other. They really should not be thought of as having the same "Fender sound". They're really two different sounds.

The tweed-era bassman (late 50s) has a very unique circuit compared to all the other classic Fenders. It actually became the basis for the Marshall amps. Like all classic Marshall's, the bassman has a Presence control, it has a cathode-follower pre-amp stage prior to the tone stack, and it has no reverb. These features, among many others, give it quite a different clean tone compared to the blackface Fenders. I have no experience playing a tweed bassman (or early Marshalls), so my comments above don't really apply to that amp. Given that *nobody* says that the Boogie clean sounds like an early Marshall, I'm guessing that you're not going to find a Bassman in your IIC+.

The blackface Twin (mid and late 60s), on the other hand, is the same pre-amp circuit as all the other blackface amps. Distinctive features include a massive mid-scoop in its frequency response, miles and miles of clean headroom, and a deep and wet reverb. My own Deluxe Reverb Reissue, is based on the 1965 (blackface) Deluxe Reverb, so my comments above are most relevant to the blackface Fender sound. The boogie clean circuit is indeed based on the Fender blackface, but all the other stuff added into the IIC+ circuit path (as well as the different speaker) changes the sound and feel of the amp quite a bit (as discussed earlier). So, while the Boogie is certainly much more like a Fender than it is like a Vox or a Marshall, it still isn't really a Fender either, if you really sensitive to that classic Fender sound and feel.

I love talking about this stuff. Thanks for listening.

Chip

 

[BLCBolivar]

Hi Chip,

Thank you again for all the helpful advice. I do own a Fender Bassman. However, it's a reissue from the early 90s (I think around 1991). I had changed the original tubes to Soveteks and replaced the rectifier with a tube rectifier. It sounds good but not near as well as a Victoria 45410. I'm trying to avoid spending $2,500.00 for another amp. I really think this C+ can cover just about everything I need. I only play at home in my spare time so that is why it is not quite as important to get a 100% authentic Fender sound. Again, I am really happy I spent the $1,000.00 for the Mark IIC and the $500.00 upgrade to finally have a C+. My real dilemma is getting my wife and son out of the house so I can really crank this thing. I would rather save money to buy a matching Thiele cabinet rather than purchase any more amps. Just a note I also have a Marshall JMP-1 pre-amp and a Boogie M-180 power amp that I'm gong to sell on Ebay before Christmas because in my opinion, the C+ sounds so much better than the Marshall. I'm sorry but I'm do not have as much technical experience with amps as you have. The settings you gave me sound great. When my son is older, I am going to advice him that he can sell any of my gear I have after I'm gone except my 1961 Strat that my father purchased new in 1961 and that C+ Boogie. Those two are legacy's in their own right.

If I don't here from you, have a great Thanksgiving.
Brian

 

[glguitarman]

I think that a Tweed Bassman with a few carefully selected pedals could be a fine "one amp that does it all". Not trying to take anything away from the IIC+, of course.

 

[Treefer]

Chip, your advice on the Mark IIc is gold and those two sample settings are the most useful I have ever found. Can't wait to try them at the next gig! Thanks