Mark IIB Volume Controls

[gitapik]

Hey. I've got my IIB. I'm wondering if this is "normal" in Lead Drive:

Lead Drive knob is engaged and set at around 5 (I'm into a lighter OD, lately). Vol 1 is at 10 and Master Vol at about 2. Lead Master is pulled for brightness.

Here's the twist: when I turn Lead Master up, it stops increasing in volume after 2. In order to make the Lead channel louder, I have to increase the volume in Master Vol., which, as you know, increases the volume in the rhythm channel.

The plot sickens: sometimes, after I raise the Master Vol level up to compensate for the loss in Lead Master, the Lead Master starts to function again, past 2 in volume...and Master Vol becomes a control separate from the Lead (as I remember it's supposed to be).

And, the latest: I started experimenting with the Lead Master pushed in (flatter for rhythm work). With that situation, it never goes past 2 in volume. It's all about the Master Vol at that point.

I've had this amp for a long time. I've recently started setting Lead Drive at 4 or 5 over my usual 7-10. I took it to my repair guy to overhaul and thought he'd done a great job...but when I came back to him with this problem, 2 months later, he said that it's normal, I'd just never noticed it before, and Boogies are confusing like that.

I've had this amp for a long time. I love it and can't remember anything like this ever happening. But I am experimenting with lower OD settings for the first time ever...so maybe it's something I've missed...?

:?

 

[RR]

Hmmmm ... is this 'issue' new? I mean you always had this 'setting' and now its giving you trouble?

I don't have my Mark IIB in front of me but the Master Volume governs the overall volume of the amps (mine is a coliseum) I don't go pass "3". It gets really loud. My settings are rhythm volume "7", lead channel volume about "6" [ depending how much drive I need ] and the Master Lead volume is about "3". The rhythm channel is very headroom clean. No break up even at "7" setting. The lead channel has a mild overdrive about Classic Rock (70s - early 80s). Very pleased with this overdrive.

... [unrelated note] now if need some serious saturated distortion, then I go to my Trem-o-verb! But the Mark IIB has this 'classic' overdrive that I can't get with other amps. I mean other amps gets fairly close, close enough, but I'm so used to my Mark IIB, its predictable what I want out of it and never fails me.

 

[gitapik]

Yes the issue is a new one...but the lower OD setting is new. Wondering if that's why.

I like my lead tone, too. What kind of speaker are you using?

 

[RR]

Gitapik, are you the person that had your Mark IIB modified by some tech to give you more gain? Some member had his Mark IIB modified for more gain.

I've played quite a few speakers through my Mark IIB 300 Series from Celestion Greenbacks (checkerboard grill Marshall 4x12s), Eminences (4x12", don't recall the model), EVM-12Ls pair, JBL K-120s pair, but for me I like a full stack of Celestion G12-65s (through an 80s Randall Stack) and a pair of Fane Cresendos the best. Not to say they're better sounding than those mentioned, just that I prefer these latter two.

I was always a fan of Hiwatt so using the graphic in a sine-wave setting playing through the Fanes gave a sort-of-like simulation of a Hiwatt (yeah, close but not quite). But would like to get a Hiwatt or Reeves guitar amp.

Yeah, I know, the Mark IIB is more like a Silver Face Fender with a overdrive pedal but with the graphic you could tailor the tone a bit.

 

[MrMarkIII]

This is completely normal, 'specially at low volumes.
Page 2 of the manual:
"... Please note, however, that the Master 1 is always active in the circuit and will limit the maximum volume of the Lead mode when it is set too low..."

 

[gitapik]

Gitapik, are you the person that had your Mark IIB modified by some tech to give you more gain? Some member had his Mark IIB modified for more gain.

I've played quite a few speakers through my Mark IIB 300 Series from Celestion Greenbacks (checkerboard grill Marshall 4x12s), Eminences (4x12", don't recall the model), EVM-12Ls pair, JBL K-120s pair, but for me I like a full stack of Celestion G12-65s (through an 80s Randall Stack) and a pair of Fane Cresendos the best. Not to say they're better sounding than those mentioned, just that I prefer these latter two.

I was always a fan of Hiwatt so using the graphic in a sine-wave setting playing through the Fanes gave a sort-of-like simulation of a Hiwatt (yeah, close but not quite). But would like to get a Hiwatt or Reeves guitar amp.

Yeah, I know, the Mark IIB is more like a Silver Face Fender with a overdrive pedal but with the graphic you could tailor the tone a bit.

Hiwatt's are cool. Lots of headroom. I used to bemoan getting the 60/100 IIB in favor of the Simulclass...but love that extra headroom, now. Incidentally: I'm really into the Boogie's 5 band, so thanks for the tip on the sine wave. I'll check it out. I leave it scooped, lately, for clean funk rhythm work. Very effective.

I've got a real nice Boogie thiele cab to go with the combo. Both have EVM12Ls. Great sound, but I'd like to take some weight off of the combo for when I'm just going to jam somewhere. I've heard some great things about the Jensen Tornado. 100 watts. Bring it down from a 65lb to 50lb combo, which would be nice. Then hook it up to the ext with the EVM for the full treatment. Just looking around for someone who's tried one in an open back combo. Get some feedback (find out if I can get some feedback with that speaker, too...I like to have that option).

BTW: I'm not the guy who got the mod done, but I am considering sending mine in for Mike's effects loop mod, which includes increasing/focusing the gain. Waffling about it 'cuz it's $$$ which I don't have, yet and I haven't played or heard one with the mod. I hear GREAT things about it, though. Wish I could get a first hand look...

 

[gitapik]

This is completely normal, 'specially at low volumes.
Page 2 of the manual:
"... Please note, however, that the Master 1 is always active in the circuit and will limit the maximum volume of the Lead mode when it is set too low..."

Thank you, veddy much...

 

[RR]

...I am considering sending mine in for Mike's effects loop mod, which includes increasing/focusing the gain. Waffling about it 'cuz it's $$$ which I don't have, yet and I haven't played or heard one with the mod. I hear GREAT things about it, though. Wish I could get a first hand look...

That would be a good move on this mod. Even if you don't use the effect loop, the reverb sounds more transparent. Stock wise the reverb sounds "tubby" not transparent. But with this mod, instead of 'playing' into the reverb, sounds more like playing with reverb. Kind of hard to explain.

Another thing with this effect loop mod, there's an added "limit control" in the back of the chassis. This is to adjust how much signal going into your effects. Now if you don't even use effects, this "limit control" could be use adjust your overall volume. => I'm wondering if 'this' could cure your Mark IIB symptoms you are experiencing?

 

[gitapik]

...I am considering sending mine in for Mike's effects loop mod, which includes increasing/focusing the gain. Waffling about it 'cuz it's $$$ which I don't have, yet and I haven't played or heard one with the mod. I hear GREAT things about it, though. Wish I could get a first hand look...

That would be a good move on this mod. Even if you don't use the effect loop, the reverb sounds more transparent. Stock wise the reverb sounds "tubby" not transparent. But with this mod, instead of 'playing' into the reverb, sounds more like playing with reverb. Kind of hard to explain.

Another thing with this effect loop mod, there's an added "limit control" in the back of the chassis. This is to adjust how much signal going into your effects. Now if you don't even use effects, this "limit control" could be use adjust your overall volume. => I'm wondering if 'this' could cure your Mark IIB symptoms you are experiencing?

That's really interesting...it's the reverb that made me start to check out the mod. I've noticed both the lack of transparency and, also, the way it cuts out when you switch over to the lead (at 5 or less on the gain). I'll have it "just right" in the rhythm channel and then it's almost gone in the gain ("Gone in the Gain"...a new tune).

Curious about that knob in the back. Can that be used as an attenuator?

My main concern about the mod is the gain, which is actually the reason why a lot of people go for it. I'd really like that extra punch and tightness, but it's r-e-a-l important that I still can get that transparent overdrive at 4 or 5 that's so awesome for blues and country. I'm not so into the classic rock thing, anymore. Or metal...though I like both. So I want to make sure I'll still get a great tone at the lower gain settings. Like I said before: if I could get my hands on a IIB with the mod or hear a nice clip (they seem to all be by metal players) (sounds awesome in that area, btw), I'd be able to make the decision in a hurry.

 

[RR]

... That's really interesting...it's the reverb that made me start to check out the mod. I've noticed both the lack of transparency and, also, the way it cuts out when you switch over to the lead (at 5 or less on the gain). I'll have it "just right" in the rhythm channel and then it's almost gone in the gain ("Gone in the Gain"...a new tune).

Curious about that knob in the back. Can that be used as an attenuator?

My main concern about the mod is the gain, which is actually the reason why a lot of people go for it. I'd really like that extra punch and tightness, but it's r-e-a-l important that I still can get that transparent overdrive at 4 or 5 that's so awesome for blues and country. I'm not so into the classic rock thing, anymore. Or metal...though I like both. So I want to make sure I'll still get a great tone at the lower gain settings. Like I said before: if I could get my hands on a IIB with the mod or hear a nice clip (they seem to all be by metal players) (sounds awesome in that area, btw), I'd be able to make the decision in a hurry.

This effect loop mod (improves performance of the reverb and now you have a knob to control the signals going to the effect loop OR use it as an overall volume) has no-effect on the gain, well that I know of.

One member here had a complaint after he got this mod: "Seems like I'm not getting enough volume, no matter how I set my volumes controls, its always low."
Replies: "Did you adjust the (new) limit control in the back that governs the effect loop? This might be set low. Turn the knob up even if you don't have an effect in this loop."
member: "Oh wow, yeah that solve the problem. This is cool! Now I could adjust the overall volume"

=> (with this mod) Say you set your volumes both the rhythm and lead to your liking. But your bandmates or the club manager say you are playing too loud. Well you could turn this limit control down low without touching any of the other volume controls and it will lower the overall volume so yeah, its like an attenuator.

So like I said even if you don't use the effect loop, this mod does help the Mark IIB's performance. (I believe) prior Mark Series pretty much have improved effect loops. I think when MESA were developing the Mark III, they improved the effect loop and Mike Benedelli realize he could do the same with Mark IIB. I was having my Mark IIB checked over by MikeB when he phoned me and said my amp checked out fine then he asked that he has an effect loop mod that will improve the effect loop and reverb. So I got this mod.

gitapik, you probably throughly know more about a Mark IIB than I do since I'm playing many various amps since, so if you get this mod, maybe its just subtly that you may think wasn't worth it on the other hand you may think you should have got this mod way back. I don't know.

 

[gitapik]

... That's really interesting...it's the reverb that made me start to check out the mod. I've noticed both the lack of transparency and, also, the way it cuts out when you switch over to the lead (at 5 or less on the gain). I'll have it "just right" in the rhythm channel and then it's almost gone in the gain ("Gone in the Gain"...a new tune).

Curious about that knob in the back. Can that be used as an attenuator?

My main concern about the mod is the gain, which is actually the reason why a lot of people go for it. I'd really like that extra punch and tightness, but it's r-e-a-l important that I still can get that transparent overdrive at 4 or 5 that's so awesome for blues and country. I'm not so into the classic rock thing, anymore. Or metal...though I like both. So I want to make sure I'll still get a great tone at the lower gain settings. Like I said before: if I could get my hands on a IIB with the mod or hear a nice clip (they seem to all be by metal players) (sounds awesome in that area, btw), I'd be able to make the decision in a hurry.

This effect loop mod (improves performance of the reverb and now you have a knob to control the signals going to the effect loop OR use it as an overall volume) has no-effect on the gain, well that I know of.

One member here had a complaint after he got this mod: "Seems like I'm not getting enough volume, no matter how I set my volumes controls, its always low."
Replies: "Did you adjust the (new) limit control in the back that governs the effect loop? This might be set low. Turn the knob up even if you don't have an effect in this loop."
member: "Oh wow, yeah that solve the problem. This is cool! Now I could adjust the overall volume"

=> (with this mod) Say you set your volumes both the rhythm and lead to your liking. But your bandmates or the club manager say you are playing too loud. Well you could turn this limit control down low without touching any of the other volume controls and it will lower the overall volume so yeah, its like an attenuator.

So like I said even if you don't use the effect loop, this mod does help the Mark IIB's performance. (I believe) prior Mark Series pretty much have improved effect loops. I think when MESA were developing the Mark III, they improved the effect loop and Mike Benedelli realize he could do the same with Mark IIB. I was having my Mark IIB checked over by MikeB when he phoned me and said my amp checked out fine then he asked that he has an effect loop mod that will improve the effect loop and reverb. So I got this mod.

gitapik, you probably throughly know more about a Mark IIB than I do since I'm playing many various amps since, so if you get this mod, maybe its just subtly that you may think wasn't worth it on the other hand you may think you should have got this mod way back. I don't know.

I really appreciate your input on this, RR. Really nice of you to take the time. I'll take all this info into account and "do what I gotta do", as they say. Thanks, man...enjoy...