Mark IIB: Stock or FX loop mod?

[cho]

Just got a clean, stock Mark IIB. The clean channel sounds great. The lead channel is a little woofy and thick, which sounds nice for leads, but is lacking crisp focus for a crunch sound. I am contemplating getting the fx loop mod, which supposedly adds some focus and gain to the lead channel. I wanted to see what you all thought of the fx loop mod vs. stock.

 

[dino2sf]

Get the MOD FOR SURE !!!

See my posting after I had the MOD done

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51959

 

[dino2sf]

I highly recommend sending it in for the effects loop mod.
see the thread I started after having my Mark IIB done. I have a Mark iib 60 watt no eq . The lead channel was very farty and worthless to me before the mod was done. I find that an eq pedal in the loop is a must to get a good distorted sound even after the mod so I think you should try using the eq or eq pedal in the loop weather you do the mod or not:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51959

 

[gonzo]

i've used my IIb stock since 1982.

no reverb in my unit.

60 watt with GEQ

i've always used FX units in the FX loop, that have both input and output gain controls, so i can easily find unity gain by plugging and unplugging the return in the loop, and comparing volumes.


i've never had any issues using it this way, and see no need for any kind of mod.

 

[mark2boogie]

Just got a clean, stock Mark IIB. The clean channel sounds great.

Left it as is, IMHO, especially if it has reverb : it's a unique tone shared with the MKIIA that later versions doesn't have.

The lead channel is a little woofy and thick, which sounds nice for leads, but is lacking crisp focus for a crunch sound.

Some little mods can be done on the lead drive stage to cure that quite correctly, if you know how to work on a tube amp...

I am contemplating getting the fx loop mod, which supposedly adds some focus and gain to the lead channel.

This mod is intended to give a MKIIC or C+ feeling to the IIB, and it does it correctly. But I removed it from my MKIIB, finding it too noisy/hummy, not practical (the master volume is at the back of the amp), and the reverb tone and characteristics were lost (but I do not say that the reverb was bad), so that's why I voted "stock MKIIB" on the poll...

To have an idea about the sound of a (modded) MKIIA, MKIIB (factory Fx loop mod removed) and a (stock restored) MKIIC, have a look to my Boogie MKIIB Rev Eq 60/100W head thread on the forum : you will find in the last pages some samples of these amps tested side to side. The MKIIB Fx loop mod sounded between the MKIIC and the MKIIB, to have an idea. Sorry, at that time, I didn't had a recorder to make samples...

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=59554

A+!

 

[dino2sf]

mark2boogie is correct about the mod making it more like a mark IIC or Mark IIC+. In fact Mike B at Mesa told me it was somewhere between those 2 as far as gain after the MOD (he actually called it a mark IIB+). I picked up a mark II C+ a while back and My IIB with Mod is very close. In my opinion... The clean channel is awesome, even better than before the mod. The reverb works 100 times better after the mod (especially on the lead channel where before the mod it was terrible) and the effects loop is much much better. Plus the added volume knob on the back seems to help me balance the 2 channels volume better. No matter what you do you got a killer amp but if you want to use the lead channel much I'd say get the mod for sure. Unfortunately since getting the C+, my IIB+ and Mark V have been collecting dust. I gotta start playing those again but the C+ is so nice and it does it ALL so well (for me).

 

[mark2boogie]

The reverb works 100 times better after the mod (especially on the lead channel where before the mod it was terrible)

Listen to that sample of my MKIIA and its reverb, and you'll hear what I mean. The FX loop mod of the MKIIB simply couldn't do that, as most amps in lead mode : reverbering clean when lead... I feel it superb, because it's what I have on my Deluxe-Reverb and Princeton-Reverb when pushed : crunchy smooth blues tone + clean deep reverb. Now my MKIIB has the same reverb circuit as my IIA...

http://soundcloud.com/tubelectron/sets/boogie-mkiia-reverb-clean-lead/s-xqnVz

A+!

 

[cho]

mark2boogie: Thanks for the info. I read your post and listened to the samples, and because of that, I am leaning to NOT getting the fx loop mod (also the $300 price is a factor..). I was surprised to hear such a difference between the IIB and IIC. I mainly use the clean channel -- I use pedals for most of my gain tones -- I love the deep bass of the clean channel, and I don't hear that in your IIC samples.

I noted that your IIC uses the MS-12 speaker, which I am not familiar with. I wonder if that is also a factor in the differences...

One thing I am noting, comparing my IIB to my Mk I reissue and Mk III, is that the IIB clean channel has a nice deep, punchy bass, more so than the I and III, but does not have the high end detail/articulation that the I and III have.... I am thinking that maybe a different tube selection would help in this area.... any recommendations? (I currently have stock preamp tubes and mesa 5881 power tubes in my 60W IIB).

Thanks!

 

[cho]

dino2sf: Thanks for the info! Did you notice a change (for better or worse) in the clean channel after the mod? I am very concerened that the mod will make the clean channel thinner. The samples that mark2boogie posted have a much thinner sound for the IIC than for the IIB, and I'm afraid that the mod would do something simliar....
Thanks!

 

[gitapik]

I've been toying with the idea of getting this mod for a year or more.

For me:

Cons:

1. I'm very attached to the clean tones on my IIB. Very much so.

2. I've got some great dirt pedals.

3. Dial down the reverb and the effects loop works fine.

4. Using the Presence control, 5 band EQ, and/or dialing down the treble does wonders for the clarity of the lead channel.

Pros:

1. Mike's been doing his thing for a long time and everyone who's gotten the mod loves it. I bet it's smokin'.

2. All it's advertised to be. He does a lot of work on it. I've heard that the added volume control functions as an attenuator. That's pretty cool in itself.

I think part of it's about the sounds you're looking for. I lean more towards the clean tones, nowadays. And I love what my IIB does in that area. When its really loud I don't even need a lead channel...but that's a different story.

If I ever get to hear a IIB with the mod (I hear the 60/100 model really shines with it), and really dig it, I'd seriously consider getting it done. But until that happens, I'll stick with what I've got. Ain't broke: don't fix it.

 

[mark2boogie]

I was surprised to hear such a difference between the IIB and IIC. I mainly use the clean channel -- I use pedals for most of my gain tones -- I love the deep bass of the clean channel, and I don't hear that in your IIC samples.

Me too ! So yes, that IIC is deceptive to me... In the bass section, the settings were the same as my MKIIA and IIB : bass at 5, and on the IIC, bass pull shift to restore a "normal" bass level. Even with bass maxxed, that IIC can't compete with my IIA and IIB : you need to use the EQ maxed at 80Hz and a bit lowered at 240Hz to approach the sound of the two others (no sample for that, sorry).

BUT : please not that I wrote "that MKIIC", because I do not have any other IIC for sound comparison. But nonetheless, as I fully restored this amp and measured/checked everything everywhere, and found it working as it should, I think that probably any stock IIC with MS-12 wouldn't be very different...

I noted that your IIC uses the MS-12 speaker, which I am not familiar with. I wonder if that is also a factor in the differences...

Yes, but not for all... As you may have heard in my samples, I connected the IIC on its original MS-12 combo cab, and I also made the test with an EVM12L Thiele cab, which is known to have powerful bass on request.

When shifting to the Thiele cab, you note that the bass level of the IIC increases, but not so much, and it stays under the bass level of the IIA and IIB no matter (at equal settings).

That demonstrates that this IIC has a distinctive voicing from the IIA and B, let's say more "rock", ans so is the MS-12 speaker, which has nothing to do with an EVM12L or ALTEC 417-8H, but more resembling a "rock" Celestion speaker.

If I ever get to hear a IIB with the mod (I hear the 60/100 model really shines with it), and really dig it, I'd seriously consider getting it done. But until that happens, I'll stick with what I've got. Ain't broke: don't fix it.

Unfortunately, I did not made samples of my MKIIB MESA factory-made FX Loop Mod, because I did not had my recorder at that time, and - yes - it's a pity... It would have been much more useful than only relying on what I have heard, at least to me !

What I can say with no doubt :

- The MKIIB FX Loop Mod sounded better than "that" MKIIC, both in clean and overdriven mode.

- The MKIIB FX Loop Mod was inferior to my MKIIA (which I modified) or IIB (FX Loop removed) : the stock IIA and IIB remains more pure and clean, the IIB Fx Loop Mod ranking "close second", the IIC ranking "far third".

- I felt that in the FX Loop Mod, having the master volume displaced at the back of the amp was very unpractical for me. But it's me...

- The clean channel of the MKIIB FX Loop Mod preserves quite correctly the tone characteristics of the stock IIA / IIB but is not equivalent : it's an approach, and if you are sticked to your MKIIB original "deep-clean" sound, don't do the mod until you've heard a FX Loop modded IIB to feel if the tone difference is acceptable to you, as wrote gitapik.

- You will loose that distinctive reverb tone found on the IIA/B on the FX Loop modded IIB : I mean a deep clean reverb in clean but also in lead mode, which is an unique feature which I am very attached. But again, it's me...

But nonetheless, the FX Loop Mod as performed by Mr Bendinelli is definetly the compromise to unfiy the the IIB and IIC+ tonal behaviors. But it's a compromise... Your taste and needs should decide if it is worth or not.

A+!