Making the Mark IV Brutal

[protest]

So I've only had it for about 2 weeks, and I've been playing around with the different modes/voicings/pull knobs, and I have gotten some awesome sounds. My main goal is to basically get it as brutal as possible, and then start to dial it back from there if it seems too heavy for what I'm doing. I'm looking for a tight, aggressive tone, with tight and fast bass response, clarity, as well as some top end sizzle to it. The top end seems to be my problem; I can't get it to sound right. I'm thinking the missing ingredient might be something I can't use regularly: volume. I'm not playing at a super low volume, more like typical house/basement volumes. ~100 db's from about 8-10 ft away or so. If it is indeed the volume that's missing then I'll just boost it and be done with it, but I'm trying to not boost it if I can.

Any tricks with the channel vs output volumes, presence controls, or modes in general? I've tried a ton of stuff, pull fat, pull bright, high gain, high drive, high both(bad idea), but there's so many options it kind of overwhelming, so I'm hoping someone can save me the hours with a little cheat sheet.

Also, it's a widebody combo, I run my bass at like .5, my treble up, and my mids in the middle, and the graphic EQ is similar to the typical V shape. I've been in Class A pentode, with Mid gain selected, output on 3 I think, and channel around 2..I'm not 100% sure because I've switched it up so much lol.

 

[ryjan]

1. Get a closed back 2x12 or 4x12 cab. "Modern" heavy sounds from an open back combo don't work too well.

2. To get that punch-in-the-chest heavy sound your speakers have to be moving. Volume.

3. Gain and Treble at 8, Lead Drive at 6 or higher, Bass under 2, and Mid to taste (I liked it at 5-6).

4. Mid Gain will get you more saturation and sound a bit heavier due to the increase in perceived low-midrange but Harmonics will be more articulate and feel tighter.

5. I always favored an "M" shape to the GEQ rather than the classic "V". Keep the first and last slider about halfway between the middle and top lines, keep the 240 and 2200 sliders closer to the top, and the 750 should be under the center line to taste.
These bumps in the low and high midrange give you more snarl and depth without getting boxy or nasally sounding.

6. Don't pull bright unless you're playing at really low volume. It gets messy with gain and volume.

7. Pull fat. Definitely.

8. Tight, brutal, clear, and articulate is easier with more power. Full power, Simul-Class, Pentode. The max head room will give you punch and note clarity.

9. Lead master at 5-6 and output to taste. The louder the better so you can get the speakers and power section to contribute.

10. Pick like you really mean it.

 

[protest]

1. Get a closed back 2x12 or 4x12 cab. "Modern" heavy sounds from an open back combo don't work too well.

2. To get that punch-in-the-chest heavy sound your speakers have to be moving. Volume.

3. Gain and Treble at 8, Lead Drive at 6 or higher, Bass under 2, and Mid to taste (I liked it at 5-6).

4. Mid Gain will get you more saturation and sound a bit heavier due to the increase in perceived low-midrange but Harmonics will be more articulate and feel tighter.

5. I always favored an "M" shape to the GEQ rather than the classic "V". Keep the first and last slider about halfway between the middle and top lines, keep the 240 and 2200 sliders closer to the top, and the 750 should be under the center line to taste.
These bumps in the low and high midrange give you more snarl and depth without getting boxy or nasally sounding.

6. Don't pull bright unless you're playing at really low volume. It gets messy with gain and volume.

7. Pull fat. Definitely.

8. Tight, brutal, clear, and articulate is easier with more power. Full power, Simul-Class, Pentode. The max head room will give you punch and note clarity.

9. Lead master at 5-6 and output to taste. The louder the better so you can get the speakers and power section to contribute.

10. Pick like you really mean it.

Thanks for the reply. I've gone through most of the suggestions you gave, and I think it comes down to two things, volume and the closed back cab. I have a 2x12 rectifier at home that I think I'm going to plug the Mark into later on when I get home. Would simply pushing the combo up against the wall do well to simulate the closed back?... I was planning on selling the 2x12 to recoup some of the money I spent on the IV... I'm playing in a small room, and not at enormous volumes, so that may help but I'm not sure. I'm debating on returning it to GC (only have a few days left to decide) and waiting for a head to pop up at a more reasonable price.

As for the volume issue I think my work around for that will be either an OD or an EQ pedal. I know they're meant to be played loud, but I don't trust my house to not break lol. So if I can't get it to sound the way I want without turning up the volume and killing all the animals in my house, I'll just hit it with a boost or something.

 

[mazzith]

I noticed that using a Mesa 212 Recto cab that it really lacked bottom end and was very bright due to v30s.
I replaced those with WGS Vet30's and it fixed those problems.

Now in the 412 cab with all v30s it sounds amazing though.

You can try a Maxon OD808 in front of the amp and leave OD at 0 and crank the line to overdrive your guitar signal without changing the amps tone.

 

[sduck]

Would simply pushing the combo up against the wall do well to simulate the closed back?.

This can make a big difference - when I first got my combo, I tried playing it first on an amp stand, and then in various places in my tiny studio - it sounded thin and nasally at best. Then I tried putting it as close to the wall as I could, parallel to the wall - a huge improvement! Now it sits in the same place, but on top of a boogie 12" Thiele cabinet - it sounds great!

BTW, I use class A, harmonics, triode, tweed mode, pull fat with mine to get where I want to be.

 

[protest]

Thanks again for the replies. I tried it through the 2x12 last night for a few minutes and it was a big difference. I had to dial back the presence and push the lead drive in because the highs got a lot harsher. The bass however was way more prevalent but still tight. I'm gonna put the combo on an amp stand and push up pretty close to a wall tonight and see if it gives a similar sound.

I found two rack mount heads for sale, and I'm debating on returning the combo and buying the head to run with the 2x12. However, I don't have a rack, don't need one, and most likely never will. So it seems kind of dumb to get a rack head. I could keep the combo and cab, but it seems redundant, and my "computer/guitar room" isn't the biggest space. I'd like a regular head, but haven't found one at the price I'm looking to spend ($1k). Any advice?

 

[Vigo1999]

Buy a headshell for $120 sell the speaker/cab for $250 and spend the profit on booze and hookers.

 

[Markedman]

Buy a headshell for $120 sell the speaker/cab for $250 and spend the profit on booze and hookers.

+1

I've been playing through my Mark IV recently, I put new tubes in, that always helps with both tone and desire to use it/play more. The GEQ on that amp is where it's at basically but I have found pentode, similclass, full power are my favorite settings. I also like EVM12 speakers over Celestion. It's a very brutal amp with my Jackson guitar, a good guitar makes a big difference in making the IV brutal. Class a, triode, tweed power sounds way too smooth to my ear, very smooth even at loud levels, not very brutal. A 4X12 cabinet sounds better to my ear also, than an open back combo. To me a head is better overall, but for convenience, I like bringing a combo to "Open mics." With those settings, a great guitar and a basic V GEQ, there is no way you won't sound brutal, I guarantee that! Basic Brutal 101

 

[ochrisl]

Buy a headshell for $120 sell the speaker/cab for $250 and spend the profit on booze and hookers.

Good luck. I sold my combo cab for $75 (took 2 months) and paid $350 for a head shell.

 

[SonVolt]

Buy a headshell for $120 sell the speaker/cab for $250 and spend the profit on booze and hookers.

Good luck. I sold my combo cab for $75 (took 2 months) and paid $350 for a head shell.

How easy was it to swap the combo into a head?

 

[Vigo1999]

Buy a headshell for $120 sell the speaker/cab for $250 and spend the profit on booze and hookers.

Good luck. I sold my combo cab for $75 (took 2 months) and paid $350 for a head shell.

if you have talked to GTS he sure will have made one for much less for you.

fyi, i've payed 130usd on mine (made by an amp company here in Brazil), brand new with all original materials.

 

[ochrisl]

Buy a headshell for $120 sell the speaker/cab for $250 and spend the profit on booze and hookers.

Good luck. I sold my combo cab for $75 (took 2 months) and paid $350 for a head shell.

if you have talked to GTS he sure will have made one for much less for you.

fyi, i've payed 130usd on mine (made by an amp company here in Brazil), brand new with all original materials.

I got it from GTS. It takes about 15 minutes to swap.

 

[MkIII Renegade]

This is the kind of discussion I've been looking for! I love my new MKIV Wide Body combo, although I'm used to the more aggressive MkIII through 8x12s (yep, I play it that way most of the time because I love to move air! :twisted: ), so I need to expand it a bit. The whole point of the combo was to have A-list Boogie tone on the go (no compromises!) with minimal weight to haul around, although I am well aware that I need at least one more 12 to go with it. I am leaning toward a Thiele wide body with EV12L....although up to a Rectifier horizontal 2x12 has appeal....

 

[keeppicking]

How do I contact GTS? Looking to get a head shell

 

[Vigo1999]

How do I contact GTS? Looking to get a head shell

send him a pm.