making the f50 sound more vintage
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fabien
Well-known member
Sell it, maybe? :lol:
Seriously, the F50 was not designed to be a reproduction of a vintage amp. Though the clean channel is in the Mark vein the lead is definitely modern, post '80s that is.
So if by vintage you mean '60s/'70s, the tip 'sell it' is not that silly, you've got the wrong amp. Nobody asks how one can have a '60 Princeton or AC30 sound like a rectifier.
Cheers
Fabien
Seriously, the F50 was not designed to be a reproduction of a vintage amp. Though the clean channel is in the Mark vein the lead is definitely modern, post '80s that is.
So if by vintage you mean '60s/'70s, the tip 'sell it' is not that silly, you've got the wrong amp. Nobody asks how one can have a '60 Princeton or AC30 sound like a rectifier.
Cheers
Fabien
fabien
Well-known member
I understand. Then I'd say a good transparent overdrive on the clean channel. I use a G2D CreamTone as low gain and an OCD. I have a G2D Custom overdrive as well wich shines in very low gain, just a hair, and you get great singing, mid focussed lead tone for free!.. Ahem! it's not exactly free, G2D is actually quite pricey and shipping is not cheap either but it's worth it.
Did you try the lead channel with the gain at 10:00 with a strat on neck pup with the volume backed a little? It gets actually quite spongey and fat with my CS '60 Strat that way, it has great smooth 'vintage' pickups so it helps.
Cheers
Fabien
Did you try the lead channel with the gain at 10:00 with a strat on neck pup with the volume backed a little? It gets actually quite spongey and fat with my CS '60 Strat that way, it has great smooth 'vintage' pickups so it helps.
Cheers
Fabien
I think most of the trouble is the previous owner swapped the preamp tubes and that are low gain I have a 57 reissue strat with kinman Woodstock pickups and I have added a eric Clapton pre amp. And I'm still struggling to over drive the preamp tubes on channel one with the gain at full. I have a kealy moded bd2 Which sounds great and I can get natural od if I really boost it or turn the gain up on th bd2 with the clean channel gain a 3oclock I get a nice tone. I was just trying to get it with out the pedal
I think you're onto something - try different preamp tubes. Cool thing about tube amps - you can change how they sound, sometimes radically, with different tubes. Tubes come in various "hardnesses" - for blues you'd probably want a "softer" tube. Historically, Sovteks were softer than Pentas and other Chineses tubes. I personally always felt the Mesa tubes were harder and prefer the Sovteks in my 22+ and F-30. But my information may be outdated.
I don't know the address - Google Doug's Tubes and drop him a note or call him. Good guy, knows his stuff, good prices and fast shipping. He nailed a tone I was needing in my old Laney amp. And when I had a problem, he was very quick to fix it.
I don't know the address - Google Doug's Tubes and drop him a note or call him. Good guy, knows his stuff, good prices and fast shipping. He nailed a tone I was needing in my old Laney amp. And when I had a problem, he was very quick to fix it.
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Changing from solid state to tube rectification would be very expensive and isn't likely to give you the results that you're after.
You'd need a power transformer with a 5 volt tap, space in the amp to mount a tube socket and then there would be modifications to the PCB.
The rectifier has nothing to do with the amount of gain that the amp produces. It can give the amp a different feel, which could be described as "bluesy" though it is subtle.
You'd need a power transformer with a 5 volt tap, space in the amp to mount a tube socket and then there would be modifications to the PCB.
The rectifier has nothing to do with the amount of gain that the amp produces. It can give the amp a different feel, which could be described as "bluesy" though it is subtle.
elvis
Well-known member
Tube rectification is VERY overrated in terms of tone. And many players (like me) hate it, because spongy is not necessarily a good thing.
Try some other amps. I have an Electra Dyne, which sounds 100x better than my F50. I keep the F50 mostly as a spare, and also for metal, as it has LOTS of gain, and the Dyne has just enough for classic rock. Also, the Lone Star is supposed to be a fantastic amp as well, and it has lots of gain on the lead channel. I will be trying one out soon.
I have been able to get very nice bluesy tones a couple of ways from my amps. First, with a Maxon OD808 into the clean channel. That is great for a little dirt on the neck pickup. Also, running the clean channel on an F50 with gain set very high, or the gain channel with gain set very low. The vintage LO channel on the Dyne is great for blues as well. It gives a great ZZ Top tone.
But "Blues" is not so easy to define. To me it means "mostly clean, but a little breakup with extra sustain". I generally squeeze the notes out of my guitar, rather than using a lot of gain. For others, it's lots of gain, but a really bassy tone. Or a fuzzy tone, like Billy Gibbons. For players like Satriani, it's pretty much anything.
To me, the F50 has a good (not great) clean, and a very good medium-to-high gain tone. I never got a good low-gain tone from it. I LOVE to thrash stuff like Van Halen or Randy Rhoads-era Ozzy on it. And it will do a very convincing modern metal tone.
Try some other amps. I have an Electra Dyne, which sounds 100x better than my F50. I keep the F50 mostly as a spare, and also for metal, as it has LOTS of gain, and the Dyne has just enough for classic rock. Also, the Lone Star is supposed to be a fantastic amp as well, and it has lots of gain on the lead channel. I will be trying one out soon.
I have been able to get very nice bluesy tones a couple of ways from my amps. First, with a Maxon OD808 into the clean channel. That is great for a little dirt on the neck pickup. Also, running the clean channel on an F50 with gain set very high, or the gain channel with gain set very low. The vintage LO channel on the Dyne is great for blues as well. It gives a great ZZ Top tone.
But "Blues" is not so easy to define. To me it means "mostly clean, but a little breakup with extra sustain". I generally squeeze the notes out of my guitar, rather than using a lot of gain. For others, it's lots of gain, but a really bassy tone. Or a fuzzy tone, like Billy Gibbons. For players like Satriani, it's pretty much anything.
To me, the F50 has a good (not great) clean, and a very good medium-to-high gain tone. I never got a good low-gain tone from it. I LOVE to thrash stuff like Van Halen or Randy Rhoads-era Ozzy on it. And it will do a very convincing modern metal tone.
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I have a 5E3 clone that has a saggy power supply, a saggy 5Y3 rectified tube and a saggy alnico speaker.
It's mildly distorted with the volume at 3 (it goes to 12) even with single coils and cleans up by turning down the guitar's volume or even just by picking more lightly. As you turn it up, it gets a lot more distorted but barely gets any louder!
When You hit a full chord full force it sounds like the guitar equivalent of a grand piano and as the notes diminishe, the power supply, rectifier and speaker recover, causing the sound to bloom and sustain and almost feel like it's pulling you forward.
It's a super responsive "bluesy" amp (though Leo never intended it to be that way).
On the other hand, it does these things because the design is flawed. To make an F50 sound similar, you'd have to break it.
My Express 5:50 has a nice "bluesy" sound (though not saggy) because it has a couple of mid-gain modes that can almost replicate the sound of a slightly broken up amp.
This is one of the reasons that I chose a 5:50 over an F50.
It's mildly distorted with the volume at 3 (it goes to 12) even with single coils and cleans up by turning down the guitar's volume or even just by picking more lightly. As you turn it up, it gets a lot more distorted but barely gets any louder!
When You hit a full chord full force it sounds like the guitar equivalent of a grand piano and as the notes diminishe, the power supply, rectifier and speaker recover, causing the sound to bloom and sustain and almost feel like it's pulling you forward.
It's a super responsive "bluesy" amp (though Leo never intended it to be that way).
On the other hand, it does these things because the design is flawed. To make an F50 sound similar, you'd have to break it.
My Express 5:50 has a nice "bluesy" sound (though not saggy) because it has a couple of mid-gain modes that can almost replicate the sound of a slightly broken up amp.
This is one of the reasons that I chose a 5:50 over an F50.
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You'd think that it would be a one trick pony, but I've played gigs covering BB King, Johnny Cash, Stray Cats, Tom Petty, Black Crowes, Clapton, Fabulous Thunderbirds, Doors, Bob Seger and more with just this amp and a Telecaster (actually, I guess that's only about a trick and a half- blues, roots rock and classic rock :lol: ).
Also, there are a couple of other ways to use these amps that can make them sound cleaner (cranking up the channel that you're not using) or even dirtier (putting a jumper across the channels) that I didn't mention above.
Also, there are a couple of other ways to use these amps that can make them sound cleaner (cranking up the channel that you're not using) or even dirtier (putting a jumper across the channels) that I didn't mention above.
elvis
Well-known member
BTW, if you really want some supply sag, just put a resistor in series with the rectifier diodes. You can experiment with the value until it acts the way you want. You can add a switch to short out the resistor and give yourself a nice dual rectifier emulation (make sure it's an isolated switch, or better yet use a relay - the diode sees several hundred Volts!).
I replaced the tube rectifier in a '65 Deluxe Reverb with a Diode + Resistor. It worked great. I liked it better without the resistor, but to each his own. I eventually put it back to stock, but I did a lot of interesting mods to that amp along the way.
I replaced the tube rectifier in a '65 Deluxe Reverb with a Diode + Resistor. It worked great. I liked it better without the resistor, but to each his own. I eventually put it back to stock, but I did a lot of interesting mods to that amp along the way.
scandoslav
Member
elvis said:
Whoa what wait what? Really? That's awesome! How/why does it work like that? I know next to nothing about amp circuits; this sounds like the sort of magic I'd eagerly pay somebody to do for me.
elvis
Well-known member
It's not magic at all. The switch just chooses between the original diode circuit and a saggy diode + resistor circuit.
