LSS vs. Dr. Z 18w vs. Orange

[GeoBull]

I played at an outdoor thing tonight; had my LSS with me but didn't use it; the backline was already setup and it seemed more trouble than it was worth to get them to throw my LSS up there. Was I sorry...

There were a bunch of amps: two Dr. Zs (18w and a bigger one), an Orange Thunderverb 200, a Marshall. I started in the Orange; didn't like it much. In the clean channel I was not able to get clean and the slight overdrive fur wasn't to my liking at all. Honestly, I didn't have much time to play around with the settings but I certainly didn't like what I was getting after a few minutes of dialing.

Then I switched to the Dr. Z 18; again I wasn't thrilled with the clean sound and when I drove the gain harder and backed off the master I didn't really like the dirt sound much either; again, I didn't have much time at all to play with the settings but I didn't like what I got.

Compared to what I've been able to get from my LSS and LSC I was not impressed by these boutique amps (well, Orange isn't really boutique I guess). The natural fur and spank that I get when I drive ch 1 a bit on the LSS (Gain around 12-1; SD pickups JB and Jazz) is FAR and away better than what I experienced tonight. Perhaps more time with the amps would have helped but I'm certainly willing to contend that the Lonestars stack up against these amps and others I've tried (e.g. Bruno) and sound better.

 

[Rocky]

I'd ditch any Mesa I have ever owned for Dr Z Stang Ray, Perscription ES or Maz 38...I have never had a Mesa that sounds as good or responds as well as one of those amps.

Not saying that I dont like Mesa, cause I own 2 right now, bt the Dr Z amps I have used smoked my Mesa gear in all areas. You have to play your volume controls and learn the little tricks to work a Z properly but when you do they are godly.

 

[MONGO]

I agree with you 100 % Dont be fooled by the boutique amps out there. Mostly name and good tones but to much money. I for one can afford any amp at any price and the LSC is the best amp I ever owned. I have had Dr z carr , and more but the LSC is badass and the LSS is as well but I use the LSC more. Prefer that big bottom tone of 6l6's and 34 crucnh in my other LSC. Hands down awesome amps and th eonly mesa amps I like. The Lonestar series is very non mesa so to speak.

 

[enigma]

I used to own a Stiletto Trident, Mark I Reissue and Lonestar 2x12. I got rid of them for various reasons though they all have a place in my tonal heart. Most likely I'll end up getting another Mark I. I like Stiletto, but really didn't have a place for my type of music, but it was hell of fun. Lonestar was great, but may I dare say generic overall.

Currently, I own a Vox AC30 and Orange Rockerverb 100.

AC30 - nothing beats a clean, "glass" tone like the AC30 especially through my 2x12 blue backs.

Orange RV100 has, by far, the best "natural" sounding overdrive channel - hands down. It needs no pedals whatsoever! The clean channel is voiced very brown - not your Mesa clean at all. It's mainly used w/ my Boss Blues Driver Keeley modified - it gets similar dirty tone as the LSS, but less compressed.

And, when I A/B both amps I'm in my own tonal heaven. I have my own original tone worth recording!

BTW, the Orange is pushed through the good 'ole Mesa 2x12 rectifier cab. I'm in search of Mark IV head . . . .

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I'd have t disagree with the OT poster. I have compared the LSS (have owned it 2x) with the DR Z MAZ Jr. and that amp far and away blows the LSS out of the water in the tone dept. The MAZ Sr. is even better (and closer in power to the LSS @ 38 Watts). The Dr Z (Sr) has way more clean headroom -- my biggest gripe with the LSS.

Don't get me wrong, as far as technical design, features, etc., the LSS wins out.....but in the tone dept. the MAZ wins.

...believe me, I am one of the biggest Boogie followers (see my sig) -- they're the only amps I use currently, but fair is fair. The LSS is not the best sounding EL84 amp out there (by far).

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I used to own a Stiletto Trident, Mark I Reissue and Lonestar 2x12. I got rid of them for various reasons though they all have a place in my tonal heart. Most likely I'll end up getting another Mark I. I like Stiletto, but really didn't have a place for my type of music, but it was hell of fun. Lonestar was great, but may I dare say generic overall.

Currently, I own a Vox AC30 and Orange Rockerverb 100.

AC30 - nothing beats a clean, "glass" tone like the AC30 especially through my 2x12 blue backs.

Orange RV100 has, by far, the best "natural" sounding overdrive channel - hands down. It needs no pedals whatsoever! The clean channel is voiced very brown - not your Mesa clean at all. It's mainly used w/ my Boss Blues Driver Keeley modified - it gets similar dirty tone as the LSS, but less compressed.

And, when I A/B both amps I'm in my own tonal heaven. I have my own original tone worth recording!

BTW, the Orange is pushed through the good 'ole Mesa 2x12 rectifier cab. I'm in search of Mark IV head . . . .

Hey Enigma, what happened to your LP and Fender CS Strat? I don't see it in your Sig :shock:

 

[enigma]

JAZZGEAR,
I sold them to someone that would really appreciate them. I'm really into '80s ESP Strats; their neck and fretboard are just so fluid to play on. And, I think the pickups are Seymour Duncans - just pure tone with lots of transparency and breathing room.

 

[pjrhd28]

I owned a Maz 38 head that I played thru the Z best 2 x 12 cab. I also own an LSC head that I play thru a Carr 2x12 open back cab with Eminence PAtriots. I also own a LSS combo with the 1 x 12 ext cab.

To me, the Z was brittle, bright, and completely unuseable with either a PRS Cu 24 or a LP Std. The reverb was good but more nonlinear than any reverb I've ever had. I don't like the way it doesn't compress when you really dig into the strings. It did one thing extraordinarily well-and that is captured on the live Mayall CD- the Buddy Whittington strat tone. The LSS will get you about 90% of that tone, and perhaps with some more tweaking and a pedal, it might get you 100% of the tone. But the LSS does so MANY things the Z doesn't do, that to me, its the LSS and its not even close.

One other thing the LSS dusted the Z on-a treble humbucker rhythm tone with a little bit of ringing dirt (REM, Aimee Mann, that "oldschool" Vox AC-30 rhythm tone). I could NOT get the brightness out of the Z trying to do this tone, no matter how hard I tried.

My Sr did NOT have a lot more clean headroom than the LSS; it had more, but I would describe it as a little more rather than a lot more.

The LSS "soft cleans" in the 5 watt mode are the best cleans I've ever heard- and I own the LSC, a Carr Slant 6V, two Victorias, and a Vibro King.

Also, the LSS, with channel 2 and the drive enganged, would get much dirtier at any and all volume levels than the Z. This wasn't a big deal to me, but it might be to others.

I know its different strokes for different folks and that's what makes the world go around. All I know for certain in that anyone considering a purchase of either a Maz 18, Maz 38, or a LSS should take a good hard look at all 3.

One other thing. I liked the LSC thru the Z best 2 12 cab. I LOVE the LSC thru the Carr cabinet; it completely opens the tones up and take away the inherent darkness of the LSC.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I don't like the way it doesn't compress when you really dig into the strings..

Right there if where we go in separate ways.....I actually like that attribute in an amp......which is the opposite effect you get from the LSS.

So, yes different strokes....

My Sr did NOT have a lot more clean headroom than the LSS; it had more, but I would describe it as a little more rather than a lot more.

(Scratches Head).....That was not my take on the MAZ SR. I played them both live and to me the MAZ had way more headroom (in the cleans) than did the LSS.

I agree, the 5 watt mode on the LSS is amazing.

BTW the MAZ Sr. is nearly $500 less than the LSS :shock: So I would expect a bit more from the higher priced amp. And it delivers, the LSS is a great amp no doubt. I just don't think it is the best sounding EL84 based amp -- is all I am saying (and I am referencing the clean tone more than anything else)

 

[pjrhd28]

The Maz 18 1 x 12 combo with verb is $1649

The Maz 38 1x12 combo with verb is $1849

The LSS 1 x 1 combo is $1695


Where'd you get the $500.00 figure from???

 

[Mr_You]

Seems like some unusually specialized amps for a rented backline, but what do I know.

Not sure what type of gig this was, but for my music, I would be really surprised if someone forced a rented backline on me.

 

[GeoBull]

Mr_You

Seems like some unusually specialized amps for a rented backline, but what do I know.

Not sure what type of gig this was, but for my music, I would be really surprised if someone forced a rented backline on me.

This was a pre-gig for a bigger gig; the rented backline IS being forced on me for the bigger gig; the organizer is not an experienced musician and really doesn't get the problem; he's also on somewhat of a 'Everything is my call' trip; I'm working out how to insist on using my own gear at the main gig. Unfortunately, the organizer is not putting me in touch with the sound guys (who would I'm sure accomodate rolling an LSS on stage and sticking a mic on it). It is a surprising situation but true. It may work out in the end.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

The Maz 18 1 x 12 combo with verb is $1649

The Maz 38 1x12 combo with verb is $1849

The LSS 1 x 1 combo is $1695


Where'd you get the $500.00 figure from???

Wrong....the price on the LSS as of 08/2007 is $1799 + tax

The MAZ SR Can be had for about $1500 (no tax as buying out of state -- You're pretty much paying tax on the Mesa's no matter where you buy), so I stand corrected in that regards. The MAZ Sr is $300 less and not $500. I do understand the list price of the MAZ is higher, but if you find the right dealer (as I have) you can get it for much less.


Edit: I just checked with my dealer and it seems the Z's have gone through a price increase as well this summer...and list on the MAZ Sr. is right around the same as a LSS. Only difference is that the Mesa's have to adhere to a "No discount" rate while the Z's are not as stringent....meaning you can buy it below list.

 

[pjrhd28]

1. According to the list price sheet here: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=9622,

the 1 x 12 LSS combo is $1695. The 2 x 12 combo is $1799 but I was staying apples to apples ( 1 x 12 to 1 x 12)

That list is as of 2/07 and I think Mesa raises its price every year (not every 6 months).


2. It it my understanding that Z dealers are bound by the same list price policy that Mesa is,although its true that Mesa does not allow mail order wherein Dr Z does, so the sales tax difference might be meaningful. I can tell you that my inquires, especially on the 18's and 38's, resulted in list price is what you pay. This is also consistent with what I was able to learn for the Z forum.

3. The sales tax difference also generally evaporates if you buy it from the local retailer.

Make sure you're looking at the Maz's with reverb

 

[pjrhd28]

I think its safe to say that the LSS is basically a push with the Maz 18's and Maz 38's as far as USED amps are concerned.

Would you agree?

 

[lesterpaul]

I recently got a maz 38 no reverb and it sits well with the fulltone fulldrive II mosfet-sounds like my old 74 marsh 50 watter-it really takes a shyin' to my strat...muscular sounding a la srv....it just isnt my cup o' tea...I can get those clean tones with my coliseum-the z sounded better thru a thiele/ev,fer sure to me-if you are into pedals,the z is a sweet deal-can really customize a tone with it- the hotplate helped as well-I am not a tele guy,but I am about to sell to a tele dude down the road-1200 cash-whatttta deal!