LSC vs Fender Super Sonic 22

[ifailedshapes]

I spent about an hour today comparing a LSC 2x12" to a Fender Super Sonic 22. The LSC was very full, very warm, but also very muddy on channel 2. The Super Sonic had better tone, but sounded boxy in comparison. I like the features of the Super Sonic a little better, but I wish it sounded bigger. These amps are a much better match for what I'm looking for, and either one would be seen as an improvement in my eyes when compared to my current Stiletto. (Shameless plug - it's for sale! Check the classified section!)

One thing that I would have a hard time getting over is the build quality. The Fender seems pretty solid, and it has the same 5-year warranty, but the Mesa is noticeably better in this area. The Fender just looks cheap, but Fender amps are road warriors and I've seen many that are over 30 years old.

So, I want you guys to sell me on the Lone Star. Why should I spend a considerably larger amount of money on the Mesa? Also, just how effective are the Reeder mods? I'm perfectly happy with channel 1, but channel 2 was just so muddy, and I tried it with both of my guitars: Fender American Deluxe Strat and PRS Hollowbody I.

 

[Don]

One thing that I would have a hard time getting over is the build quality. The Fender seems pretty solid, and it has the same 5-year warranty, but the Mesa is noticeably better in this area. The Fender just looks cheap, but Fender amps are road warriors and I've seen many that are over 30 years old.

You can't compare a new production Fender amp to a 30 year old Fender amp as far as build quality is concerned, they're completely different animals built by different people out of different materials using different techniques! The SS22 doesn't appear to be built poorly, and will probably hold up fine, it's just not up to old Fender or current Mesa standards.*

*My main amp is a 1966 Vibrolux Reverb, I also have a wonderful hand made clone of a late 1950s Deluxe, just sold a 1967 Super Reverb, sold a 1968 Princeton Reverb to buy a Mesa/Boogie and had a Fender Concert 4-10 for my first tube amp back in '82 so I'm kinda biased towards old Fenders.

 

[screamingdaisy]

So, I want you guys to sell me on the Lone Star. Why should I spend a considerably larger amount of money on the Mesa? Also, just how effective are the Reeder mods? I'm perfectly happy with channel 1, but channel 2 was just so muddy, and I tried it with both of my guitars: Fender American Deluxe Strat and PRS Hollowbody I.

That's what I was talking about before. Channel 2 is big and fat and voiced for lead. It doesn't like to do rhythm... unless you're doing ZZTop style stuff where you're doing more chord stabs than crunch riffing.

 

[ifailedshapes]

So, I want you guys to sell me on the Lone Star. Why should I spend a considerably larger amount of money on the Mesa? Also, just how effective are the Reeder mods? I'm perfectly happy with channel 1, but channel 2 was just so muddy, and I tried it with both of my guitars: Fender American Deluxe Strat and PRS Hollowbody I.

That's what I was talking about before. Channel 2 is big and fat and voiced for lead. It doesn't like to do rhythm... unless you're doing ZZTop style stuff where you're doing more chord stabs than crunch riffing.

When I was playing the LSC, I was reminded of feeling that way in the past. It had just been a few years since I'd seriously demoed one, and I forgot about how hard it is to dial in channel 2. I actually got really really close to a sound I liked, but the Super Sonic just had so much more definition.

Everything inside me wants to love the LSC. I admit that I have a bias towards Mesa, but the Super Sonic seems to be winning this one. Oh, and it's $700 cheaper.

I'll be going back tomorrow to check 'em out again.

 

[J.J]

What about the bigger Super sonic 60, surely that would be more comparable to the LSC.

 

[ifailedshapes]

What about the bigger Super sonic 60, surely that would be more comparable to the LSC.

Well, the Mark V wins again. I will now start selling and saving until I have enough cash for the V.

 

[philboogie]

The lonestar is the greatest amp iv come across,iv had marshall,fender,and orange and the difference is hard to put into words,dunno if im too late but get the lonestar im always getting compliments for tone,iv never been happy with any sound iv had till i got the lonestar then put my double trouble overdrive with it,yeah its expensive but i wouldnt want anything else now.

 

[philboogie]

oh yeah and build quality of fender........ i had 3 devilles in 2 months and they all conked out,didnt even gig with them.

 

[toneguy86]

I actually just messed with a Fender super sonic at a store. It isn't bad. It reminds me of some of the decent modelling amps I have played.

That said...it is not a Lonestar. Mesa build quality and attention to details are first class and this amp is a great amp...maybe one of their best. Personally I have struggled to get what I want out of channel 1...channel 2, once I figured it out has some incredible qualities. Here are a couple of things to keep in mind:

Lonestar controls are much more interactive then any other amp I have owned, meaning the settings on one control have a huge impact over what happens with the rest of the amp. If I remember your Stilletto was similar, but the controls on a Lonestar are really different then the Stilletto. So if you set those controls the way you are used to on other amps...things will sound (especially on channel 2) huge, ponderous and/or muddy...to the point of being out of control. That said...

Try playing with a couple of things...

Set your treble on 1:00 to 2:00 and adjust the other controls from there.

Bring your mids down much farther then you think they should be (no higher then 10:00)

As you bring the gain control up, you need to bring your bass control down. If you add more treble, you can bring the bass up, but right now to get a decent, non muddy cranked amp sound on channel two, my bass (with gain between 2:00 and 3:00) is almost off. Depending on the room, my bass control will range from almost completely off up to no higher then 9:00. I do NOT lack from bass reponse either. Sometimes I wish I could bring it down even farther.

For something completely different that might give you what you are looking for, try bringing your drive control up higher then the gain on channel 2. This changes everything, and since the gain control has such a heavy influence over all the other controls, keeping that low and bringing up the drive lets you use the controls in a bit more typical way.

As you may have discovered with your Stilletto, the Mesa user's manuals are amazingly detailed. It took me a long time to digest it all and figure out what worked.

FYI...I use a Les Paul and another Gibson humbucker loaded guitar. Mud is not an issue on either channel.

 

[Jared Purdy]

You could also try the 112 Lonestar Special. In terms of wattage it is closer to the Supersonic, though the LSS is still a hefty amp, weighting at 59Lbs.

I picked up my LSS about two weeks ago, it is the second one that I have had (the first one was returned to the store due to it constantly blowing rectifier tubes). Before I got it, I had posted my Swart AST Master on a couple of for-sale web sites, and one guy offered me a trade for a like-new Supersonic 22 + and cash. So I decided to check one out at a local store. IMHO, there is no comparison in the tones or the build quality between these two amps, and there is a reason why the LSS/LSC costs $700 + more.

Tone is so personal, so I cannot say unilaterally that the tone in the Supersonic sounds hollow, and brittle, though it does to me. The "feel" of the amp, is that it is poorly made, and seems fragile - to me, at least.

There is nothing fragile feeling about the LSS or the LSC. However, the 2nd channel on either one is more complicated that anything on the Supersonic, and you need to spend some time experimenting with the controls, and with different guitars as a Gibson LP does not sound the same as a Fender Strat, obviously. When checking out the LSS, I found it useful to bring along my A/B/Y pedal to see how close I could get either channel to a couple of amps that I like. That was the majic, and the deal maker for me, was when I heard it could sound like so many different amps with just the tweak of a knob.

 

[mdortona]

Ifailedshapes,

I had a SS22 and quickly sold it b/c of the annoying hiss it had, which has been well documented (and bitched about) on the Fender forums. I loved the clean channel and the switching capabilities, but the hiss of the amp in general and the slightly raspy OD channel made me sell it. It was the perfect size and power for gigs. A great idea of an amp that wasn't well implemented.

FWIW, I have and gig with a 1x12 LSS and have been very happy!

Matt

 

[jpdennis]

Well, the Mark V wins again. I will now start selling and saving until I have enough cash for the V.

What I have heard is the Mark V is a great amp. Also, it has a lot of capability which can be released after throughly reading the users manual and spending some time with it. I have the manual at least 20 times for my Heartbreaker with fewer switches than the mark V and I am still learning (and reading) :lol: . I believe that Randy poured his heart and soul into developing this latest Mark Series to have the most complete capability of voicing possible off of the earlier versions as well as the new stuff he added.

I did have a similar "muddy" problem with my .50 Caliber 6BQ5 (early EL84 version) until my tech did some well needed service work and installed a Mercury Magnetics output transformer & MM toneclone FBC reverb transformer which just sounds bell tone clear when I want and down right nasty when I need. If I had bought the Mark V before buying, repairing, modding, and updating the others I would have saved a lot of $$$

Dennis

 

[Jared Purdy]

Personally, I don't think there is ANY comparison between these two amps The LSC is leaps and bounds better in just about every regard, from components, to versatility, to tone. I tested out the Supersonic 22 as well, right around the same time that I was thinking of getting a Lonestar Special, and for me, the LSS won hands down, in etiher first or second channel. Look at the price difference too. It's not that you can always tell the qaulity of a product bu the proce, but when there is a significant difference, it usually means something.

 

[BostonRedSox]

Personally, I don't think there is ANY comparison between these two amps The LSC is leaps and bounds better in just about every regard, from components, to versatility, to tone. I tested out the Supersonic 22 as well, right around the same time that I was thinking of getting a Lonestar Special, and for me, the LSS won hands down, in etiher first or second channel. Look at the price difference too. It's not that you can always tell the qaulity of a product bu the proce, but when there is a significant difference, it usually means something.

Who cares what an amp is made of. Yes, Mesa's are MORE expensive than Fender's line of amps. There are legitimate reasons behind this as you have pointed out. Still though, these reasons don't make a Mesa better than a Fender. I buy the "higher quality" and "fewer worries" argument, especially based on the components used and labor involved. No matter what though, I can't reasonably argue that a Lonestar "can't be compared" to a Supersonic 22 based on quality alone. Everyone's ears are different. What sounds great to me, may not be favorable to others. If the poster likes the sound he gets from the Supersonic, then get one. Trust me, if this page were the TGP forum, anything Mesa-related would be bashed on with no end in sight.

A word of caution though. There is a caveat to buying a Fender and Jared Purdy makes a good argument -- the parts ARE cheap and that may translate in lots of common amp problems, such as excessive noise and hiss at loud volumes. Just thought I should point that fact out. If you search the 'net, you'll find others claiming exactly that -- a noisy amp!

 

[Jared Purdy]

Personally, I don't think there is ANY comparison between these two amps The LSC is leaps and bounds better in just about every regard, from components, to versatility, to tone. I tested out the Supersonic 22 as well, right around the same time that I was thinking of getting a Lonestar Special, and for me, the LSS won hands down, in etiher first or second channel. Look at the price difference too. It's not that you can always tell the qaulity of a product bu the proce, but when there is a significant difference, it usually means something.

Who cares what an amp is made of. Yes, Mesa's are MORE expensive than Fender's line of amps. There are legitimate reasons behind this as you have pointed out. Still though, these reasons don't make a Mesa better than a Fender. I buy the "higher quality" and "fewer worries" argument, especially based on the components used and labor involved. No matter what though, I can't reasonably argue that a Lonestar "can't be compared" to a Supersonic 22 based on quality alone. Everyone's ears are different. What sounds great to me, may not be favorable to others. If the poster likes the sound he gets from the Supersonic, then get one. Trust me, if this page were the TGP forum, anything Mesa-related would be bashed on with no end in sight.

A word of caution though. There is a caveat to buying a Fender and Jared Purdy makes a good argument -- the parts ARE cheap and that may translate in lots of common amp problems, such as excessive noise and hiss at loud volumes. Just thought I should point that fact out. If you search the 'net, you'll find others claiming exactly that -- a noisy amp!

Amp builders are very concerned what their amps are made of. That is why the good ones tell you what's inside and out!!

 

[BostonRedSox]

Personally, I don't think there is ANY comparison between these two amps The LSC is leaps and bounds better in just about every regard, from components, to versatility, to tone. I tested out the Supersonic 22 as well, right around the same time that I was thinking of getting a Lonestar Special, and for me, the LSS won hands down, in etiher first or second channel. Look at the price difference too. It's not that you can always tell the qaulity of a product bu the proce, but when there is a significant difference, it usually means something.

Who cares what an amp is made of. Yes, Mesa's are MORE expensive than Fender's line of amps. There are legitimate reasons behind this as you have pointed out. Still though, these reasons don't make a Mesa better than a Fender. I buy the "higher quality" and "fewer worries" argument, especially based on the components used and labor involved. No matter what though, I can't reasonably argue that a Lonestar "can't be compared" to a Supersonic 22 based on quality alone. Everyone's ears are different. What sounds great to me, may not be favorable to others. If the poster likes the sound he gets from the Supersonic, then get one. Trust me, if this page were the TGP forum, anything Mesa-related would be bashed on with no end in sight.

A word of caution though. There is a caveat to buying a Fender and Jared Purdy makes a good argument -- the parts ARE cheap and that may translate in lots of common amp problems, such as excessive noise and hiss at loud volumes. Just thought I should point that fact out. If you search the 'net, you'll find others claiming exactly that -- a noisy amp!

Amp builders are very concerned what their amps are made of. That is why the good ones tell you what's inside and out!!

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying (writing). I just don't think that is still good justification to not get the amp that sounds good to YOUR ears. If the poster buys the LSC based solely on its better quality, he/she may still be left wishing for the amp that originally had "it" -- that sound that appeals to THEIR EARS. I try to not get too crazy about aspects of amps that don't serve my immediate purposes. I care about quality and road tested gear, and hold such cares in line with my yearning for good tone. Hence, why I like Mesa and continue to favor their amps. However, some players may not care about those values, thus making the "higher quality parts = better amp" argument null.

 

[Jared Purdy]

Amp builders are very concerned what their amps are made of. That is why the good ones tell you what's inside and out!![/quote]

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying (writing). I just don't think that is still good justification to not get the amp that sounds good to YOUR ears. If the poster buys the LSC based solely on its better quality, he/she may still be left wishing for the amp that originally had "it" -- that sound that appeals to THEIR EARS. I try to not get too crazy about aspects of amps that don't serve my immediate purposes. I care about quality and road tested gear, and hold such cares in line with my yearning for good tone. Hence, why I like Mesa and continue to favor their amps. However, some players may not care about those values, thus making the "higher quality parts = better amp" argument null.[/quote]

This is very true. I sold a hand, made fairly expensive boutique amp (Swart AST Master 112 combo) to get my LSS. Some people that I know thought I was nuts, selling a hand wired, hand made, boutique amp for a PCB, mass produced amp (not that the LSS is cheap as a mass produced PCB amp, but I'm sure you get my drifT).

 

[lespauljoe1]

I have owned both a Lonestar Classic and Supersonic 60. They are both good amps, but imo, the Lonestar is much better. Not only is the construction much better, to me, the tones were much better. I just couldn't get a tone fro the SS drive channel that I liked at all. It was too harsh for my tastes.

One thing I always feel that needs to be done when purchasing a new tube amp, is to have it properly biased. I have never bought a tube amp in which it was biased to obtain optimum performance and tone. I know the Lonestar is fixed bias, but I had a bias pot installed (very inexpensive). This is not a criticism toward Mesa, but my Lonestar was not properly biased. When I had the pot installed, the tech properly biased the amp and it made a significant improvement in the tone.

Another fairly inexpensive change that can be made is to replace the speaker. Buy a Mesa/Celestion Vintage 30 speaker. I can almost promise that this speaker will not be muddy in any way. You can sell the original speaker and recoup most of its value.

If you don't want to spend the money on another speaker, bass reduction is one of the easiest and cheapest changes that can be made. My guess though, is that if you have it biased and adjust the EQ, it will give you what you want and in the long run, I feel you will be more happy with the Lonestar that the SS. toneguy86 gives some good EQ advice.

The Lonestar is a wonderful amp imo. The SS is also a good amp, but not it doesn't compare imo.

I plan to buy another Lonestar Classic sometime early next year. I only sold my first one to help free up money for my kids education.