LSC 4x10 ?

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J.J

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Does anyone actually own or even have any experience with the 4x10 LSC ? I can find very little information about this, with most discusion about 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 cabs.

In the constant search for that Texas blues sound like SRV, Freddie king and many others I decided to try an LSC out. THe local shop has all the options, but I decided to try the 4x10. So far it is easily the best amp for Texas Blues I have ever tried. The top end Brightness and shimmer is amazing, but never seemed to get harsh or to much even with quite a lot of trebble dialed in. Previously I have tried an LSS head with the 2x12 cab which was really good, but seemed much warmer without that top end bite.

A lot of my favorite Blues recordings have featured a Fender Super reverb. I have not been able to try one of those as none of the shops in my town stock them. The LSC 4x10 seems to nail that super reverb type sound I have in my head.

Why do more people not have the 4x10 ? Please tell me your thoughts.
 
It will be way too heavy!!!!!

My 2 12 is too heavy for me...........but I put up with it because of the tone.
I too love the Super Reverb sound too.

Why not try a Dr Z EZG 50?
I have considered this for some time.
They sound awesome. You can go the head and 4x10 cab route.

Paul
 
Yeah, it's just too darned heavy. I converted my 1x12 LSC into a head and cab and haven't been happier. I can only imagine what hauling and lifting a behemoth like a Lone Star 4x10 combo would be like.... the 1x12 was bad enough, but at least I could get my arms mostly around it (sort of). The 4x10 just seems like a back injury waiting to happen.

I honestly don't know why they make that amp... I'm sure it sounds awesome, but it just doesn't make sense for a working player. The only conditions under which I'd consider owning that would be if I never had to move my own gear. And at that point I might be in a different echelon gear-wise anyway...
 
I had to move a MKV that was sitting on the LSC 4x10 before I could check its weight. There didn't seem to be much difference between the two. From what I can find the 4x10 is almost the same weight as the 2x12 combo.

According to Mesa the 4x10 cab weighs 50 pounds alone. Not sure what the head weighs, but it definately a lot less than my 1x12 Express.

You guys are right though, weight is a killer I need to load an amp into the car about twice a week and certainly wouldn't need 4x10 for our rehearsals. does the 1x12" still have that Texas mojo ? I guess I need go back to the shop and find out.

djw said:
I honestly don't know why they make that amp... I'm sure it sounds awesome, but it just doesn't make sense for a working player.

The one I played has been in the shop well over a year So it would seem they are not very popular.

pauljohnson said:
It will be way too heavy!!!!!

Why not try a Dr Z EZG 50?
I have considered this for some time.
They sound awesome. You can go the head and 4x10 cab route.

Paul

Thanks for that suggestion I didn't know about the EZG 50. I am going to have to take a day trip to find one though. My town only really has two Guitar shops and it is a 4 hour drive to the next city...
 
J.J said:
There didn't seem to be much difference between the two... From what I can find the 4x10 is almost the same weight as the 2x12 combo.
My thinking is with the 4x10 it isn't just about the weight -- it's the weight + the size. The smaller amp seems more manageable, even though it's heavier by the cubic inch: it's less awkward to lift and maneuver into a car.

J.J said:
does the 1x12" still have that Texas mojo ?
By most accounts, yes. Mine definitely did (it's a head and 1x12 cab now, and it still kicks ***). It has been floated that the 1x12 actually sounds bigger than the 2x12, probably due to some comb/phase cancellation in the 2x12 cab. I've never heard any complaints about the 1x12 sounding small.
 
By most accounts, yes. Mine definitely did (it's a head and 1x12 cab now, and it still kicks ***). It has been floated that the 1x12 actually sounds bigger than the 2x12, probably due to some comb/phase cancellation in the 2x12 cab. I've never heard any complaints about the 1x12 sounding small.

Those C90 speakers certainly do sound big to me. Even in an open back cab they have heaps of bass.

I went back to the shop and tried the 2x12 and the 4x10 side by side. The 2x12 (and I would bet the 1x12 too) had about 95% of the 4x10 magic, but is generally tighter. The trebble just had to be increased another notch or so. I'm convinced that any of the Speaker options can be great.
 
I own both, a vintage 1966 Fender Super Reverb and a 1x12 Mesa LSC. My Mesa however is a small box head (10/50/100) and I opted for the ported 1x12 Roadster cabinet (same size as the 2x12 but with only one 12" V30 Celestion) for portability. The Fender Super Reverb is a heavy beast, but I'd think the 4x10 LSC would crush it in weight. My head alone is heavy and its a small box short style.
The other option, and it's realistic, is put some decent casters on the 4x10. The problem I have is getting a cabinet that big to fit easily into the front seat of my car. It'll do it, but it's tough to see out that side! The split version is simple. I can put the speaker in back easily and the head on the front seat, belted in. The 1x12 ported Roadster cabinet is the hugest sounding 12" Mesa cabinet I've played through, and smaller than any others that can still have a head sit on them. Much bigger sounding then the 2x12 Rectifier cabs with a better bass response, tighter IMO.

As far as getting that SRV/Texas tone from the LSC, it gets there in spades. I'd been playing my Super at local clubs for some time and the problem with them (besides the weight) is they have to be turned up pretty loud to get to the sweet spot, and you still need a Tube Screamer in front of that! Loud like around 6, but above 4 for sure. That's much too loud for any club I play in. My friend said it right about the LSC when I first brought it out. He said: "I know what your trying to get to with the Super Reverb, it's just that the LSC gets there so much sooner". He was spot on. In the clean channel the LSC really can dial in a fantastic Fender Blackface tone and get that grind much sooner then a real Fender can because of the drive channel. It also gets there without the harsh ice pick high end that many, many Fender amps (my Super included) seem to have. It's like the LSC is the Super Reverbs darker big brother. Meaner, tougher and brutal, but can be just as sweet when treated right. I bought the amp to get Andy Timmons tone, but found that it could become my general gigging amp and it gave me a LOT more versatility. Between channel two and one and my volume pot on the guitar, I can get just about anywhere with the LSC. With the Super Reverb, I can only go to Texas... with the LSC, I'm a world traveller!

One other thing I found on the LSC though is I seem to really only like it's tone when I have my EH Memory Toy delay in the loop. I don't know why, I'm not a big fan of delays per se, but without it the amp is kinda dry, even with the reverb engaged. I don't think Mesa's reverb is anywhere near the Super's and I like an amp to sound like it's big in a room, not dry. The Memory Toy in the effects loop really changes the character of the amp altogether in an absolutely beautiful musical way! It opens the amp up it seems. In fact, playing with the memory in the loop was a giant part of nailing the Andy Timmons' tone for me. I don't notice he uses a lot of delay, certainly not over the top by any means, just a subtle thing, and when he pointed it out on one of his Mesa gear videos where he talks about using two Memory Man echos together, he mentions that he leaves it on almost all the time. I had to really listen to hear the echos at all. But when he shut them off and just played with the reverb alone, suddenly it sounded like my amp! So, I was using the delay just inline on my effects board at the end of the chain and never used it because it just put notes in the way of each other and crapped everything up, I took it out and plugged it into the amps effects loop, and viola! I'd nailed his famous Lone Star tone.

I know your looking for the SRV tone, not Andy Timmons, but none-the-less the amp sounds lifeless and dull to my ears without the delay in the loop. Don't know why, but that delay in the loop really turned this amp into something I was considering selling into something I'd never part with. In fact I get nervous and all excited when I'm away from it just to get home and play it again to hear that sound. To me now, it's actually the amp that inspires me to play when none of my other amps were getting me there.

Hope this helps.
 
SRVYJM, thanks for the detailed info, and to every one else too. Its very helpful.

As said the LSC does seem to get "there" at low volumes. Listening to SRV recordings, I am realising that power tube clipping is a big part of his sound. Not something I can do at home, even my 5:25 which only does about 1.5 watts on it 5 watt setting is to loud. The best live sound I have had so far was with one of the new Fender custom Vibrolux amps. They seem to be like a half size super reverb with 2 10" speakers rather than 4. I think I was running the volume at 4 and it sounded great, but I had to back my guitar volume way off as it was way to loud which ruined to tone :x

The 4x10 LSC to my ears can edge into icepick land, but it only really took a small amount tweaking to remove it. the 2x12 was definately more subdued and you would really have to try to get icepick.

I have not heard an LSC with a V30 yet, but having both a V30 and a C90 to use with my Express I know that the V30 is quite a crunchy sounding speaker. The reason I got the C90 was that the V30 top end seemed a bit to rolled off, at least with the 5:25. The Lonestar has more top end than the 5:25 (and a presence control) so the V30 idea is worth remembering.

I recently stumbled onto the delay in the loop trick and think also that it is what has been missing in my sound. I was listening to Robin Ford recently and there just seemed to be more to his tone, somehting subtle that I couldn't really put my finger on. A friend had sugested to me that it may be the room affecting things. I put a delay in the loop set to around 240ms an suddenly I had "that" sound. 240ms corresponds to the echo you would expect to hear in a 100' room. This also makes me wonder if the echo we hear in recordings is the natural room echo of the recording studios or if it is added afterwards in the mastering process. Whatever the case it makes all the differnece to me.

Disapointing to hear that the LSC reverb is not up with the good Fender reverb.
 
J.J said:
Disapointing to hear that the LSC reverb is not up with the good Fender reverb.
This is... debatable, to say the least. The Fender reverb thing is what it is... I prefer the LS's, honestly. Mesa's reverbs are historically lousy, but the LS reverb circuit has set a new standard for them. YMMV.
 
Yes, it is a very subjective thing. By good Fender reverb, what I was thinking was the Dick Dale type reverb sound. Can the Super reverb even do that, I don't know. I was hoping the LSC reverb would be more along those lines. Probably a silly thought really since I don't play surf :oops:
 
Definitely subjective. I like the Fender reverbs too. I think the LS reverb is actually more natural sounding: it's smoother and can be used for a more subtle effect. That's obviously not what everyone is after, but it's easily good enough to just set and forget.
 
Went back to the shop and tried the 4x10 again, but with my Lesa Paul. Channel one sounded good, but I cound't get anything I liked with channel 2.

I hadn't thought of the LSC as Strat or Fender guitar only amp, do many people like Les Pauls with the LSC ?

An Electra Dyne 1x12 (with a C90) sounded much better side by side. That got me thinking about things so I took my Strat in to try with the ED and found it works surprisingly well. When Dialed for Texas tones in clean mode switching to the gain modes match the tone nicely.

A decent deal on a second hand 2x12 LSC combo has just come up near by, but now an ED has come back into the equation. Can't have both :wink:
 
I LOVE my Les Paul with my LSC. Heck, I bought my Lone Star based on my tryout with it. These days I mainly play my Fenders through it, but that's due to the style of music I'm playing at the moment... I think humbuckers sound outstanding through the LSC. I also have been playing a 335-clone through it lately, which sounds fabulous; and my P90-loaded LP Special sounds amazing too.

That Drive channel is definitely different than what you'll get with an ED. The drive character more easily ventures into the creamy, Santana-style lead tone (or "Can't You Hear Me Knockin'") than your typical British grind. You *can* get in that territory, but it takes some familiarity with the amp to really zero in on it... the ED gets that thing more out of the box, but I'd argue that this is at the expense of some versatility. I think the LSC has more tones in it than the ED.

Obviously they're different beasts, and you should go with what makes you happier.
 

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