Love my red stripe Mesa Mark III...GAS'n for a Mark IIc+. Am I really missing a lot?

[scott520]

Like the title says, I've become a pretty big Mesa fan boy over the last year or so and I have my eye on a few amps. The Mark series amps are by far my favorite and I absolutely LOVE my red stripe Mark III. However, I'm quite infatuated with the idea of owning a Mark IIc+. For those of you with real experience, is there a world of difference between the 2 amps? I LOVE LOVE how tight the low end is along with the aggressive nature of the red stripe and don't particularly care about cleans or versatility. Just looking for the best metal tone that the Mark series has to offer. I should also add that I'm wanting the full on Mark IIc+ with 105 tranny, simul class and EQ.

For a bit of context, I had a Mark IVb for a while and it was a great amp but it was just a bit too...smooth, for a lack of a better way to say it. I also had a Triaxis/2:90 combo and I really liked the supposed IIc+esque channel but it always seemed a bit too compressed and maybe even a little muddy. Plus I missed the ability to truly tweak the 5 band eq. I also had a Mark 5:25 but it wasn't even close to being able to keep up with it's big bottle brethren...in my opinion of course. So, with all that being said. Do I stand to gain anything by shelling out the big bucks for the holy grail IIc+? Thanks for any insight in advance guys and gals!

 

[gts]

Search the board, there is lots of info to be found as this subject has been discussed many times.

The short answer:
Opinions vary but for those of us who have owned multiple Mesa Mark series amps and done live, in person comparisons to them with a IIC+
there is "a world of difference between the 2 amps"!!

 

[scott520]

Thanks for the insight. I think I'm just trying to logically justify and rationalize the vast cost difference between the Iic+ and all other Marks. In the end, I'm just gonna have to track one down and formulate my own opinion.

 

[xdg999]

A Mark III+ with the 105 transformer will get you close to a c+. The III+ maybe sounds a little compressed compared to a c+ but then all c+'s don't sound the same. My Coliseum sounds huge. I actually spend most of my time with my III+'s because of R2. I got my III+ DRG Wide Chassis with the 105 back from Mesa a couple of weeks ago and it sounds fantastic. Someone hacked up the original circuit board trying to make a repair so Mike B. replaced it with a later production III board. The cleans are really nice and R2 has more gain than my other III+'s.

 

[Markedman]

I have a Mark 2C++ and have owned a few Mark III"s. Different and better, yes. Worth it, yes. Missing a lot, no, but why have #2 when you can have #1? That's the difference. They sound similar enough that you don't need a 2C+ but you will find that the C+ responds quicker and tighter with more of a grasp on the note. It does what the 3 does but at a higher standard, the master and the student if you will. There are a ton of amps out there that cost more but no amp matches the mighty king of the hill Mark 2C+, nothing.

So to answer your question - you have to own a C+ to know why it is the king, long live the king!

 

[scott520]

I have a Mark 2C++ and have owned a few Mark III"s. Different and better, yes. Worth it, yes. Missing a lot, no, but why have #2 when you can have #1? That's the difference. They sound similar enough that you don't need a 2C+ but you will find that the C+ responds quicker and tighter with more of a grasp on the note. It does what the 3 does but at a higher standard, the master and the student if you will. There are a ton of amps out there that cost more but no amp matches the mighty king of the hill Mark 2C+, nothing.

So to answer your question - you have to own a C+ to know why it is the king, long live the king!

I noticed that you also own a JP2C. What's your take on the tonal differences between your IIc+ and the JP? I just bought a JP2C and really dig the amp. It's definitely different than my III. The differences are similar to the differences you mentioned between the III and the IIc+. With that being said, I wouldn't call it "better" than my red stripe, just a different kind of grind.

 

[xdg999]

The c+ is the King of the Hill with the Coliseum at the very top. I was recently talking to Mike B. about my Coliseum and told him that it was the Head of Class. He said that's because everyone else had left the classroom.

 

[megavoice]

Like the title says, I've become a pretty big Mesa fan boy over the last year or so and I have my eye on a few amps. The Mark series amps are by far my favorite and I absolutely LOVE my red stripe Mark III. However, I'm quite infatuated with the idea of owning a Mark IIc+. For those of you with real experience, is there a world of difference between the 2 amps? I LOVE LOVE how tight the low end is along with the aggressive nature of the red stripe and don't particularly care about cleans or versatility. Just looking for the best metal tone that the Mark series has to offer. I should also add that I'm wanting the full on Mark IIc+ with 105 tranny, simul class and EQ.

For a bit of context, I had a Mark IVb for a while and it was a great amp but it was just a bit too...smooth, for a lack of a better way to say it. I also had a Triaxis/2:90 combo and I really liked the supposed IIc+esque channel but it always seemed a bit too compressed and maybe even a little muddy. Plus I missed the ability to truly tweak the 5 band eq. I also had a Mark 5:25 but it wasn't even close to being able to keep up with it's big bottle brethren...in my opinion of course. So, with all that being said. Do I stand to gain anything by shelling out the big bucks for the holy grail IIc+? Thanks for any insight in advance guys and gals!

my mate, be happy with your reddy, i ve got two of them, no need of IIc+ ever, i m still the most lucky man onthe planet and that will never change till

i m in 2. heaven - guess now what my first heaven is.........................

 

[GJgo]

I've had them all. There's a reason people pay what they pay for the different Marks. Yes, the C+ is that much better.

Second place? A late loop modded IIB. I call it "B+". Mine smokes & has gain between a C+ and a C++. Third place? A III black / PT105 or a III red. The "IIB+" is very close. Third place? Mark Five 35.

Do not shy away from a 60w C+. I actually prefer how tight & aggressive their pentode section is, and plenty loud. Also don't shy away from a C+ w/o GEQ, but a GEQ in the loop. It's not quite as good but it saves you a lot of money, and the tone is actually better.

Here, check out some of my comparo vids. Lots of tones to compare all done by me so it's internally consistent.
https://www.youtube.com/user/fast13b/videos

 

[scott520]

I've had them all. There's a reason people pay what they pay for the different Marks. Yes, the C+ is that much better.

Second place? A late loop modded IIB. I call it "B+". Mine smokes & has gain between a C+ and a C++. Third place? A III black / PT105 or a III red. The "IIB+" is very close. Third place? Mark Five 35.

Do not shy away from a 60w C+. I actually prefer how tight & aggressive their pentode section is, and plenty loud. Also don't shy away from a C+ w/o GEQ, but a GEQ in the loop. It's not quite as good but it saves you a lot of money, and the tone is actually better.

Here, check out some of my comparo vids. Lots of tones to compare all done by me so it's internally consistent.
https://www.youtube.com/user/fast13b/videos

I actually ended up finding/buying an all original IIc+ DRG. And yes, it truly is something special and the cost is justified in my opinion.

 

[dlpasco]

If you A/B these amps you will lose your mind, because they do not sound the same.

Petrucci noted that even the IIC+'s had differences between them, depending on the options (power section, eq, etc), and Doug West noted in the Mark V manual that he was haunted for a long time trying to figure out why his non-eq IIC+ so was much tighter than the same models that had graphic eqs.

The very best Mark II I've heard was my friend's (GJgo) IIB Coliseum, which he used for brutal, brutal speed metal. I own a 60 watt Mark IIC+ that is great, but I've learned that settings matter, and that you can dial any Mark in to sound like crap or sound great. I honestly believe that, if you switched between a IIC+, and a III, on different tracks on an album, most listeners would never notice.

If you want to get a IIC+, I say go for it, but get one at a low enough price that you'll feel good if you decide to sell it again later on. Sometimes you just have to own one and decide for yourself. EDIT: I clearly missed that you got one. Glad you like it!

As it stands, out of the amps that I have, I use my 90 watt Mark V the most, because it's the most versatile, and I know how to dial it in. My own IIC+ is basically collecting dust because I'm tired of having a killer lead sound and then having the walls of the house get knocked down when I switch back to the clean channel. My III is in the same boat, largely due to the fact that the V is so much more flexible and sounds terrific.

Honestly, the reason I'm keeping either of them is because they are like classic cars - I think they're beautiful machines, but they are not what I use for playing or recording, at all.

 

[little-b]

Markedman has it right. Id have to agree pretty much.I own a 84' mkiic+ thats just been gone over by mike b,and i also own a mkiii coli blue and a red stripe.Both my coli's have the rhythm 2 mod which is crucial to have.As been said,the mkiii,at least mine are way more versatile,have more gain than a iic+, especially my blue str.coli.Way more rawer than a mkiv a or b.But there is a more immediate attack on the notes,and a clarity and feel that only a iic+ has...now...i would be fine on a desert island with either coli if it was me,but yes,the iic+ has a magic to it.sorry,im probably no help lol,even tho i see you got one.

 

[GJgo]

Congratulations Scott on the find! Are you going to have Mike B. go through it?

Littleb I'm going to PM you.

 

[little-b]

Np Gjgo! And congrats on your iic+ Scott! I at one time thought about having mike ++ my iic+ and + my coli's, but honestly, i cant imagine the need for any more gain that what i have now with them.My coli"s do have more gain than my iic+( mike b told me they would).But i like them for what they are.The mk's are my favorite mesas.

 

[GJgo]

Littleb it's worth your time to make one of them (with a GEQ) a ++. A IIC++ is the best gain structure I've ever heard. It's more than just the amount of gain. Example- my old one.
https://youtu.be/T8XI4fE46qk?t=409

 

[little-b]

Youre probably right.If i ever did ++ a mk amp,i suppose it would be my iic+.The iii's have a ton of gain,thickness,etc in them already....you may know more about this than me,but i do recall mike b saying something to to the fact once a while back that when you ++ the amp,you lose some of your squeaky clean channel? Im not sure on any of that tho?

 

[GJgo]

The ++ mod kills the clean channel for the most part, but it leaves you with a KILLER AC/DC tone on that channel. It makes the amp a hard rock / metal weapon.

 

[dlpasco]

For some extra money, you can get the ++ made so that you can toggle it on and off.

Mike B took mine and modded it so that PULL DEEP engaged ++ mode, and then modded the Mid knob to take over PULL DEEP control. I think that doing so was a bit of an imposition for him, but I was willing to pay extra for it and he delivered.

I think it can be made foot switchable, but if so, it is way harder and neither Mike or I were up for that.

All that said, I usually don't run it in ++ mode. I prefer the default for Nirvana-esque tones.

 

[little-b]

Thats very interesting, to say the least.Great info! Selectable ++ mode is a great idea!

 

[Beer]

A Mark III+ with the 105 transformer will get you close to a c+. The III+ maybe sounds a little compressed compared to a c+ but then all c+'s don't sound the same. My Coliseum sounds huge. I actually spend most of my time with my III+'s because of R2. I got my III+ DRG Wide Chassis with the 105 back from Mesa a couple of weeks ago and it sounds fantastic. Someone hacked up the original circuit board trying to make a repair so Mike B. replaced it with a later production III board. The cleans are really nice and R2 has more gain than my other III+'s.

I have a mark iii coliseum no stripe on it's way and it has the + above the power cord.....assuming its upgraded to a mark iii + also the volume is labeled volume 1 like it's an old mkii chassis .....the transformer is huge but do not yet know if it's a 105.....wondering how close it will sound to the mkiic+