Looking for cheapest Boogie that is closest to tone of MK1

[JimDep]

So what's changed? His guitars have changed; SG, Les Paul, L6S, Yamaha, PRS, occasional Strat. The different instruments certainly have had a role in shaping his tone (I think of the L6S / Boogie combination on Borboletta) but in my opinion the change has mostly to do with how he has changed as a human being.

Juan

I agree, completely. What a difference 10 years made between 1973 and 1983, and then to now. I have a lot of respect for the person he was in the early / mid 1970's.

I'm just grateful that I was into the Santana band at their peak, from Arbraxas through the Lotus band lineup, Imho. The early 70's was an incredible time period to be in the SF Bay Area getting those feet wet.

 

[MichaelC4]

I read somewhere that Carlos looks for the "sweet spot" on every stage when performing.
The "sweet spot" is supposedly where he can stand and get certain notes to have the longest "feedback/ sustain" for the particular setup he's using during that performance.

You are absolutely correct.
He put an X on the stage floor.
This is the spot that feedback was his friend.
The note would decay and feedback in the same pitch would replace it.
A trick that Jimi Hendrix picked up and used for the ever popular 'Machine Gun' solo from Band of Gypsys.

 

[RR]

Zillions of links

:lol: - lol I believe you that Santana used a Gallen Krueger at Woodstock.

Oh by the way, I much as I like Carlos Santana, I'm not no Santana aficionado or something. :wink: I used to subscribe to Guitar Player Magaziine in the late 70s through the 80s and read up all these rock guitarists gear.

 

[JimDep]

I used to subscribe to Guitar Player Magaziine in the late 70s through the 80s and read up all these rock guitarists gear.

Same here. That's how I learned about Carlos' choice of humbuckers. Bill Lawrence worked for Gibson in the early 70's and had Carlos try out his
"Superhumbuckings" during 1972 or 73. Carlos had these installed in his Les Paul and then Bill Lawrence designed the L6-S with the Superhumbuckings as the stock
pickups. In Guitar Player magazine, sometime in the 70's, Carlos attributed his sustain to the Bill Lawrence pickups. He said something profound
like " My sustain? It's all from the Bill Lawrence pickups, man." Hmmm......

Carlos didn't go exclusively to Boogies until probably Caravanserai, though I could be wrong.

Juan

Hey Juan,
My understanding is that Carlos still used a Twin during the recording of Carvansarai in 1972 and then discovered the Boogie just before Love Devotion and Surrender with John McLaughlin (I've got a source bookmarked somewhere :? Sources from that place and time are a little shaky, IMHO ). I read somewhere else that Carlos began using the Boogie during the recording sessions of Caravansarai and is used only on a couple tracks. I tend to believe the 1st statement, where Carlos used his Twin exclusively for Caravansarai. He and Neal both used the Twin for "Song of the Wind" which would explain why their tones are so close. Same guitars, same amp......and......different fingers and snakeskin tennis shoes.

Here's some Santana tones coming from his 1st Boogie Mk1 . 1973 I'd be happy with this to say the least;

This starts a few minutes into the video, for some reason I can't figure out. Pull it back to the beginning. On my computer, Carlos is coming through the right speaker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaCIG6ykWts

 

[Supersonico]

Nice write-up by Randall Smith that Authorized Boogie posted a few weeks ago where he talks about the King Snake amp. It's posted over on the Modern Era Amps section. Here's a link to it: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66639

Juan

 

[JimDep]

Nice write-up by Randall Smith that Authorized Boogie posted a few weeks ago where he talks about the King Snake amp. It's posted over on the Modern Era Amps section. Here's a link to it: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66639

Juan

Thanks Juan,

That was some article! The best I've read about his original amp so far. I saw Santana at the end of 1973. I wonder if he was still using the Budokan amp?
Budokan was in July of 1973. Whatever I heard him through at the end of 1973 was in it's own league. That set the bar for me for incredible tone. I've never heard anything like it since.

Sixty and Hundred watt positions are exactly like the original, noting that the 8 ohm speaker should be plugged into a 4 ohm jack and set to 60 watts for Carlos’s main lead tone.

I wonder if that works the same as a 16 ohm speaker into a 8 ohm jack?

 

[igfraso]

Carlos also had a Heartbreaker in his rig as a back up amplifier. That is not a surprise since Heartbreaker's Channel 1 is a copy of the Mark I.

 

[RR]

Going back to the original question, "What affordable Boogie qould give me early Carlos Santana tone?" my suggestio would go with a 60 watt Mark I with an Altec 418-8H[?] speaker. Reverb would be nice, and the 5-band graphic option would be price i$ accordlngly.

I say 60 watts because you could push the power tubes. 100/60 watt is quite loud even though Carlos used them. Someone is going to say get a 60/100 watt because you could set the amp at 60 watts. True but smaller 60 watt output transformer saturated nicer than a 100 watt output transformer even set at the 60 watt mode.

I got into with another member here because we were discussing power tube distortion. He said that "power tube distortion" is over rated "Who wants a 'farty' tone?" THAT IS NOT POWER TUBE DISTORTION! Power tube distortion is a warm harmonic way different than preamp tube distortion.

Just want to clear that misnomer.

Great discussion on Carlos Santana's tone. :wink:

 

[JimDep]

Carlos also had a Heartbreaker in his rig as a back up amplifier. That is not a surprise since Heartbreaker's Channel 1 is a copy of the Mark I.

COOL !! I did not know that......now I've got another option to keep an eye out for. THANKS!

 

[JimDep]

Going back to the original question, "What affordable Boogie qould give me early Carlos Santana tone?" my suggestio would go with a 60 watt Mark I with an Altec 418-8H[?] speaker. Reverb would be nice, and the 5-band graphic option would be price i$ accordlngly.

I say 60 watts because you could push the power tubes. 100/60 watt is quite loud even though Carlos used them. Someone is going to say get a 60/100 watt because you could set the amp at 60 watts. True but smaller 60 watt output transformer saturated nicer than a 100 watt output transformer even set at the 60 watt mode.

I got into with another member here because we were discussing power tube distortion. He said that "power tube distortion" is over rated "Who wants a 'farty' tone?" THAT IS NOT POWER TUBE DISTORTION! Power tube distortion is a warm harmonic way different than preamp tube distortion.

Just want to clear that misnomer.

Great discussion on Carlos Santana's tone. :wink:

Was / is there a 60W Mk 1 ? I mean one with a maximum of 60 watts? If so, that would be plenty. No argument from me about the sweetness of power tube distortion. The problem I'd have is the volume necessary to get there.

 

[Supersonico]

Not sure how affordable a Mark 1 would be, though I do agree with RR about Ch 1 of the Heartbreaker. The 2x12 combo is heavy.

Juan