Lonestar bias mod

[plan-x]

It would seem that the tube changes don't amount to much according to Charles(Stilleto). And believe me, when Charles speaks, we listen.

 

[splatter]

Alas Splatter! Ican't post any clips of a bias kit in a Stiletto (or a Lonestar for that matter). I don't have the equipment or the know-how. I just started using a computer several years ago due to a very generous (and insistant) gift from my son.
I will say this about clips in general, though. I would NEVER make a buying decision based upon one. There are simply way too many variables at play for me to feel I've received a true and reliable impression from one.

About the Bias-Kit and the Stiletto. With the Lonestar I could get some tubes from Mesa that would take me up into the 33 to 37mv territory....not hot....but good and warm...so the potential of the Lonestar could be grasped theoretically...and if you didn't want it super hot....some very real honest classic tones were available. The bias-kit expanded upon that versatility and made the LSC into a real jewel of an amp. The LSC does not achieve all of t's potential without the bias-kit...BUT it is still very usable.

The Stiletto is just an entirely different (for the better!) amp with the bias-kit installed! It can now be made to sound like that OTHER-WORLD-CLASS tube amp that begins with a capital 'M'!
The hottest Mesa tubes I had come acrosss (hotter ones may be available and I just missed them) biased in the fixed bias Stiletto Deuce of mine at about 28mv. COLD. After installing the bias-kit and adjusting into the 36-37mv range; I got that solid 'thrumming' midrange these amps (Ma...... amps) are known for with a rich upper frequency haze of complex tube harmonics. The bass remained tight, the midrange sang and the highs wailed (without being brittle, harsh or delivered by ice-picks. The horrible out of balance highs and lack of bass I have read about with the Stiletto Ace, the DEUCES AND TRIDENTS (vesions 1 and 2) was not there. It sounded'like it 'orta' sound!
Tried amp with bias set all the way up to 42mv. Mids became too 'mushy' for me and the bass began losing definition....but the highs continued to blend in nicely. This setting is definitely NOT for me...but it is a viable and useful setting which some folks may find udeful for certain material. BTW, with the bias set to 42mv the amp can be set 'down' to 'tweed' and some useful sounds are available there as well.

This is the extent of the testing I've been able to do with the Stiletto as I just had 'Rotator-Cuff Surgery on my left shoulder. My concentration comes and goes (as does the pain) and my playing isn't succinct enough to draw any major, permanent conclusions at this time.

I would say that it's the VERY-RARE INDIVIDUAL who wouldn't benefit from having the bias-kit installed in their Lonestar Classic.

I would say that ANYONE who owns (or even occasionally borrows) any of the Stiletto Series of amps....MUST get this kit-installed....ASAP!

Cheers: Charles

thanks charles .
I know clips can be deciving but if you get someone honest who knows what he is doing they can be a great help .
It sounds like the bias kit turned the stiletto into the amp I hoped it would be .However since I'm in the middle of having a marshall modded I don't see me buying a stiletto . Maybe one day I'll get the chance to hear a modded one .
Hope the shoulder heals soon . I have torn rotaters in both shoulders so I Feel you pain /

 

[Charles Reeder]

To Trev57 (in particular) and anyone else interested:

I tried tube changes with my Stiletto and got nowhere near what I was looking for out of the amp. It mat be that there are tubes which would have worked out the problems...but I doubt it! The Mansfield Bias-Mod Kit did the trick....and will do it with ANY tubes I have on hand. At the reasonable price they charge and even with postage to the UK...it's a real bargain. Get one...have it installed if you don't know how...and have it biased if you don't know how. A worthy tech should know the safe ranges for EL34 (6CA7) tubes...so ask them to bias a 'tad' HOT and try out the amp. You can 'tweak' hotter or colder to taste.
Best of luck.
Charles

 

[Riff Blister]

Hello Lonestar guys (plan-x, djw......)!
Long time viewer, first time poster here.

I pulled the trigger on the bias mod kit for my Stiletto today.
I'm excited to get it installed and hear what it can do.

Mark

 

[djw]

Cool. Sounds like this is what the Stiletto has always needed...

 

[plan-x]

Cool. Sounds like this is what the Stiletto has always needed...

I'm still trying to figure out why charles bought one?

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey plan-x:
Why would I even want a Stiletto? I really would have figured you to know the answer to your question; but I'll spell it out.

I like 'classic' rock, blues, country sounds; mostly from the late 50's to mid 80's...and Fender and Marshall were featured hugely in those sounds. I have had almost every model Fender amp from early 60's on as well as the Super Lead Marshalls from early 70's on; and a few versions of the JCM 800's...both the 1-channel master volume and the 2-channel switchable version.

My last Marshall (which I just got rid of was a JCM 800 2x12 100 watt 2-channel combo). With my shoulder surgery and advancing age; I wanted to go the head/cab route. So, I decided to give a Mesa a try.

It was my guess that the Stiletto would be to the 'Marshall sound' what the Lonestar was intended to be to the 'Fender sound'...not an exact copy; but a stylized approximation with some new and useful features.
Well...for the most part it is...at least to me the pre-amp section seems to be voiced very close...but in the case of the Stiletto; it's in the power amp section where the amp falls short due to the cold bias situation. Channel -1 of the Lonestar is great as is...whereas as we all know....I was unsatisfied with channel-2 from the factory. Well, I worked out that problem. The 'fix' for the Stiletto was actually simpler...the pre-amp was already pretty close to several 'classic' Marshall sounds. (close enough for my purposes anyway).

The bias-mod (which I think both amps benefit from) was all it took for the Stiletto...but it needed that mod WAY more than the Lonestar did.

I am now perfectly pleased with both amps.

Like most guitarists; I am driven both consciously and not-so-consciously by GAS...and I don't mean the kind aquired from the intake of beans.
My 'ideal' setup is to use both the Lonestar and the Stiletto with an 'amp switcher' between them. BTW; no disrespect meant; but I am not doing so to emulate a very well-known guitarist's use of the same 2 amps...my style and aims are very different.

Anyway; before I got the bias situation fixed on the Stiletto I had only used the dual amp setup about 3-times; as it simply had to be run very loud to sound right. I anticipate more opportunities to use it now. I will admit however; that I will still use the Lonestar alone...way more often than the dual amp setup. About 80% percent of the stuff I play calls more for the Lonestar sound...but there are a few selections which simply 'scream-out' for the Stiletto; and for those few selections; the Stiletto makes the song!

Being honest though; I simply love an excuse (good, bad, indifferent, silly, logical, illogical, or even downright stupid!) to buy and try another piece of equipment!

My guess would be that most of the readers of this posting can empathize somewhat (to a greater or lesser extent) with my equipment obsession!

Cheers, Charles

 

[plan-x]

Ok Charles, I dig. All I know is when I demo'd the stiletto a couple of years ago, I couldn't see myself taking that amp home as it didn't fill the room like the LSC. It just sounded kind of sterile. JCM 800 it was not. So kudos to you for doing what you do and bringing the best of that amp out of power amp deep freeze. :lol:

 

[splatter]

dont want to get way off the subject here but I just don't get why everyone likes the jcm 800
. I have owned 2 and couldn't get the sound I wanted from either one . I understand they are a good platform for pedals but so are alot of other amps. My first marshall back in the early 80s was a plexi and the 3 or 4 that followed were plexis as well .So to me a marshall shouldn't need a pedal to get that screaming marshall tone . Just the way I came up I guess . I still wont buy an amp that I have to use a pedal to get the sound I want . The only pedals I use are delay and reverb .

 

[Charles Reeder]

plan-x (and) splatter:

I guess we have gotten a bit off the (main) subject...but...all this does bear to some extent on the idea and purpose of the 'bias-mod'.

In essence...I agree with the statements above from both of you.

plan-x:
Had I the opportunity to try out a Stiletto (I didn't...I bought one never having heard one; just as I did the Lonestar)...I would have agreed about your observation that it sounded 'sterile'. It did...but the 'bias-mod' fixes that problem up nicely. As for you preferring the sound of a JCM 800...well...the Stiletto now...in my opinion; sounds SUPERIOR to the JCM 800 that I just sold (after having the mod done).
splatter:
I had the 'plexi's too...and they're the ones I consider the 'real' Marshalls! After all they were the ones that helped establish the 'tone standard' that 'rocked the world'. I bought a JCM 800 100 watt (single channel master volume head) some years after having owned and sold my plexis. That JCM 800 DID sound very convincingly ' Marshallesque'. There were definitely good sounds to be had from the channel switcher JCM 800 combo that I just sold...but it lacked that certain indefineable 'something' that the others possessed. I find that the Stiletto (after the mod); with some pre-amp tube changes and careful control tweaking is capable of matching my favorite Marshall tones quite convincingly.

For those who have tried and been disappointed with the Stiletto in the past...this mod (the adjustable bias 'Mansfield kit') would probably get most players to the place they hoped to be with the Stiletto.

BTW: I want to say something about the fact that 'Mansfield Guitars' offers these kits .
You may have noticed...most techs who have done various mods on both the Lonestars and Stilettos WILL-NOT-SHARE their knowlege so that we can do these mods ourselves. They guard every bit of info the same way ancient alchemists guarded their formulas. Certainly (not unreasonably); they want to make some money off of the mods...but they aren't going to get that many amps sent to them. Most players just aren't willing to spend the kind of money (2-way shipping plus parts and labor) and the 'down-time' while the amp is away on a mod they haven't heard. Because of this; I can comfortably say that Mansfield's decision to offer these mods in kit form not only helps us players tremendously...but is also a really good business decision!
Mansfield; not only provides the parts as a kit in a cleverly pre-constructed unit ; but provides clear instructions and photos to guide you through the whole process. This is invaluable! For about the cost of a pair of output tubes; you get a kit PLUS the info that suddenly makes ANY sets of output tubes you happen to already own usable in your amp. I have spent far more time (and money) trying out different grades (or color-codes) of output tubes in an attempt to get the output stage properly warm than the cost of the kit. More importantly; I did not get the great results that I obtained from the kit!
Whether you are considering a bias kit for a Lonestar or a Stiletto (or any of the many other amps that Mansfield offers a kit for); I recommend that you buy it. It's worth far more in the longrun than the price of the unit itself ...and effectually improves the sound of your amp many times over.

I want to personally thank Mansfield for making these kits (and the accompanying installation information) available to us.

Regards: Charles

 

[plan-x]

Now you've done it Charles! :x With your endorsement of this, I'm gonna have to give this a whirl. Here we go again! (Thirsty Pirate's famous words). And I'm really enjoying my rig right now. But no....gotta GAS some more. Thanks splatter :x :mrgreen:

 

[thom]

Does anyone know if the Lonestar adjustable bias mod would work on an LSS and if so if it would be a worthwhile mod. I did read on the Eurotubes site that the Mesa EL84 amps are biased hotter than the 6L6 amps. I do like the tone of my LSS fitted with JJ output tubes (NOT JJ preamp tubes though) but I do like tinkering......

Thanks

 

[Charles Reeder]

Would a 'bias-mod-kit' work on the Lonestar Special? HMM....good question!

If they have a set of schematics for the LSS; then Mansfield Guitars; who made the Lonestar Classic and Stiletto 'bias-kits' which I have installed (as well as other kits for other amps) would know.
Contact John Mansfiled. If they don't have a schematic...try and get one and forward it to him. He tells me that Mesa is far more likely to share a schematic with a Mesa owner than a freelance technician.
If the LSS can use one, and benefit from it (a bias-kit); he'll make one up for you!

Charles

 

[thom]

Thanks Charles. I will drop John a line and see what he says.

 

[splatter]

Does anyone know if the Lonestar adjustable bias mod would work on an LSS and if so if it would be a worthwhile mod. I did read on the Eurotubes site that the Mesa EL84 amps are biased hotter than the 6L6 amps. I do like the tone of my LSS fitted with JJ output tubes (NOT JJ preamp tubes though) but I do like tinkering......

Thanks

I don't think it will work . The lss is a class A amp isnt it ? if I understand class A amps correctly they are cathode biased and therefore the mod won't work on it .

 

[thom]

I am no expert but I am pretty certain that the LSS is not cathode biased.

Regards

Tom

 

[ja22y]

According to the man himself in this article, the LSS is Cathode biased.
http://www.premierguitar.com/magazine/issue/2007/sep/mesa_boogie_born_to_boogie.aspx

"Is your entire guitar amp line up now fixed bias?

Randy: Almost, the Lone Star Special is the one amp that’s cathode biased, meaning it doesn’t have a fixed negative-voltage bias supply. Most people call cathode-biasing Class A because it sounds sexier. When asked to explain this, and the difference with Class AB, it ran to about 30 fun-filled pages available on our web site (mesaboogie. com). But there is another common meaning for fixed bias, and that’s when the negative-voltage supply is not user-adjustable, and we do that too. All our negative bias supplies are fixed at the factory, that is, they’re wired to supply the correct voltage, and never need adjustment."

 

[thom]

Wow, very interesting. When ordering output tubes my supplier has always made a big deal about selecting ones for a Boogie when I told him I had an LSS. Don't think I was ever charged any extra but still.........

 

[alie123]

Hi Lonestar fans, I have a question about the Bias mod, hope you can help me ..

I also have the Mansfield bias mod, (for my Stiletto ACE) I have some strange things. I am curious what you guys have experienced when installing the bias mod.

I have the mod not yet installed, because first before installing the mod, I was measuring with the Mansfield bias probe how 'cold' my amp was. What I found out was weird.

Clean modes (fat clean, tite clean) are stock biassed much higher then the overdrive modes, so In what mode have you set your amp when biassing with the Mansfield bias mod? (I don't want to blow my amp)

For example: with fat clean & tite clean I measure about 38 to 42 mA (depending on what tubes I installed)
and when I switch to channel 2, I measure about 30 to 31 mA. Much lowerer!!

I have the bias mod, and I really want to install it, but I'd like to know who also has experienced this, and how (in what mode) have you biassed your Stiletto, and how hot is it set ?

When I switch to tube rectification, It even gets lower --> about 18 mA.

Ps: I am for sure I measured it the right, because I've emaild John Mansfield himself, showing a photo from my amp hooked up to the bias probe etc. I've connected everything like John / the manual said.

The bias difference between clean and overdriven sounds is huge as you see.

Hope you can help me!! Thanks in advance!

 

[splatter]

Hi Lonestar fans, I have a question about the Bias mod, hope you can help me ..

I also have the Mansfield bias mod, (for my Stiletto ACE) I have some strange things. I am curious what you guys have experienced when installing the bias mod.

I have the mod not yet installed, because first before installing the mod, I was measuring with the Mansfield bias probe how 'cold' my amp was. What I found out was weird.

Clean modes (fat clean, tite clean) are stock biassed much higher then the overdrive modes, so In what mode have you set your amp when biassing with the Mansfield bias mod? (I don't want to blow my amp)

For example: with fat clean & tite clean I measure about 38 to 42 mA (depending on what tubes I installed)
and when I switch to channel 2, I measure about 30 to 31 mA. Much lowerer!!

I have the bias mod, and I really want to install it, but I'd like to know who also has experienced this, and how (in what mode) have you biassed your Stiletto, and how hot is it set ?

When I switch to tube rectification, It even gets lower --> about 18 mA.

Ps: I am for sure I measured it the right, because I've emaild John Mansfield himself, showing a photo from my amp hooked up to the bias probe etc. I've connected everything like John / the manual said.

The bias difference between clean and overdriven sounds is huge as you see.

Hope you can help me!! Thanks in advance!

Hey Al
I never heard back from you so I assume everything worked out ok ?