Liquid Lead - IIC or V?

[hagcel]

How is the IIC mode on the MK V? IIC seems impossible to find and the IIC+'s out there are selling for 3k+ while a used V seems to be in the 1500$ range.

On top of that there are a couple IIBs locally for ~800$. I'm going to play the IIBs and see what I think. I should be able to find a V to try out too.

I assume the IIB and IIC are fairly different as far as the lead sound?

I had a IV and traded it for a Dual Rec 3 channel which I love. Channels 1 and 2 on the Mark IV I really liked but I kept missing the Single Rec I had back in the day so I traded it for a Dual Rec. Channel 1 on the dual rec, clean with the gain maxed is pure bliss. Channel 3 is killer. Haven't quite found what I like with channel 2 yet tho....

But I'm still so curious about all the other Marks.

I've found quite a few original Mark I's on craigslist for ~1000ish and it seems like the reissues go for about the same about. I discovered those after researching fenders and I'm quite curious about those too.

But I'm most curious about the IIC. That Master of Puppets lead sound is just something else. So does the Mark V do it justice? Or is it better to wait around and find a IIC or IIC+ for a more reasonable price?

 

[Elpelotero]

I own a C+ and my friend owns a IV. The IV can get close, albeit with a slightly darker sound. The C+ needs to get loud to get that smooth distortion, and when there, you need a great guitar for it to sing. The IV is much more guitar friendly--many guitars can go in and sound great.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Another option on the Mark IIC+ side of things is an early Mark III. It's said (I haven't done the A/B myself) that the early ones retained a lot of what was good about the IIC+ before they started to evolve towards what became the Mark IV sound towards the end of production. The prices on the used market are typically really reasonable.

My experience with my Mark III was that it was a loud amp that really wanted to be loud before it started to shine. But, I wasn't any sort of a lead guitarist back when I owned it so I didn't use it as a lead amplifier and can't comment on it in that regard.

With my Mark V on the other hand I use Mark IV/Triode mode for leads. I find it a little thicker and a little more fluid than Mark IIC+ mode, which is faster and more articulate. A nice option on the Mark V is the Variac. If you have to play at moderate volumes dropping the voltage with the variac sags the **** out of the power section, allowing you to get a lot more compression than you would at the same volume in full power mode.

 

[JOEY B.]

How is the IIC mode on the MK V? IIC seems impossible to find and the IIC+'s out there are selling for 3k+ while a used V seems to be in the 1500$ range.

That should tell you something, right there.

But I'm most curious about the IIC. That Master of Puppets lead sound is just something else. So does the Mark V do it justice? Or is it better to wait around and find a IIC or IIC+ for a more reasonable price?

FWIW, I would check out the IIB as a lead guitar amp. Brad Gillis had an awesome tone on Ozzy's "Speak of the Devil" album. A pair of IIB's and a stereo chorus pedal goes a long way in the right hands. Never been a big Metallica fan, except for the bass playing by Cliff Burton. 8)

 

[Mister Joshua]

I played on the IIC+ mode on a Mark V when i was testing them out. I was a bit underwhelmed. Of course i was underwhelmed by the whole amp. The IIC+ was wired in triode so in order to really emulate the IIC+ with on a Mark V you'd need to run it in triode mode. But overall i'd say the Mark V is about 75% accurate, IMO. Of course my Triaxis 2:90 is also about 75% accurate on the IIC+ tones. I agree with screamingdaisy that a III would be closer than a V.

Peace,
Joshua

 

[squreg]

How is the IIC mode on the MK V? IIC seems impossible to find and the IIC+'s out there are selling for 3k+ while a used V seems to be in the 1500$ range.

On top of that there are a couple IIBs locally for ~800$. I'm going to play the IIBs and see what I think. I should be able to find a V to try out too.

I assume the IIB and IIC are fairly different as far as the lead sound?

I had a IV and traded it for a Dual Rec 3 channel which I love. Channels 1 and 2 on the Mark IV I really liked but I kept missing the Single Rec I had back in the day so I traded it for a Dual Rec. Channel 1 on the dual rec, clean with the gain maxed is pure bliss. Channel 3 is killer. Haven't quite found what I like with channel 2 yet tho....

But I'm still so curious about all the other Marks.

I've found quite a few original Mark I's on craigslist for ~1000ish and it seems like the reissues go for about the same about. I discovered those after researching fenders and I'm quite curious about those too.

But I'm most curious about the IIC. That Master of Puppets lead sound is just something else. So does the Mark V do it justice? Or is it better to wait around and find a IIC or IIC+ for a more reasonable price?

I own a IIC+, Mark III red stripe, Mark IV, and a Mark V. The IIC+ setting on the V is very very close to the real deal (way closer then 75% as mentioned in previous posts).

It all depends on what your needs are. If you want a "trophy" amp where money is not an issue and it makes you feel good to tell people you have a real IIC+, then nothing but the real thing will suffice. If you don't have a couple of grand laying around for a 1 trick pony, albeit one of the best tricks in guitar amplifier history, (sorry just being real here) then go for a Mark V. The Mark V is way more versatile and is the quietest high gain amplifier I have ever played.

Best bang for your buck is going to be a Mark III, go with the red stripe as it the lead sound is the closest to the C+ in my opinion.

Mark IV, is amazing (it has Metallica all over that lead channel). The only thing separating it from the V is the fact that the V has 3 truely independent channels with 9 completely different modes. But the Mark IV setting on the V A/B'd to the same setting's on the Mark IV sounds almost identical.

As I mentioned before it all depends on what your "needs" and "means" are. Here is what I would do if I were you.

If I were a gigging musician and needed a great amp that nails the Metallica Master of Puppets, Justice, and Black album tone (and a but load of other fantastic clean and medium gain tones as well) it would be the Mark V without a doubt.

If I were on a budget and wanted a great amp that nails that same Metallica Lead tone but not as versatile, Mark III hands down.

If nothing but the real thing will do and again money was not an issue then I would go straight for the IIC+. It will cost you cash to get your hands on one, and may need several hundred dollars of repairs and maintenance, but it is an amazing sounding amp and a real part of history.

But if you are like me, just get all of them starting with the one that fits your current needs and grab the other ones when you see them pop up on your local classified's for the right price.

Hope this helps.

 

[JOEY B.]

It all depends on what your needs are. If you want a "trophy" amp where money is not an issue and it makes you feel good to tell people you have a real IIC+, then nothing but the real thing will suffice. If you don't have a couple of grand laying around for a 1 trick pony, albeit one of the best tricks in guitar amplifier history, (sorry just being real here) then go for a Mark V. The Mark V is way more versatile and is the quietest high gain amplifier I have ever played.

One trick pony???? Are you joking, or a guitarist that only plays METAL?


C+/V comparison: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37701&hilit=SHOOTOUT


If you want to play Metallica on the cheap, buy a RED stripe Mark III, a Coliseum model will do it best.

 

[lesterpaul]

How is the IIC mode on the MK V? IIC seems impossible to find and the IIC+'s out there are selling for 3k+ while a used V seems to be in the 1500$ range.

On top of that there are a couple IIBs locally for ~800$. I'm going to play the IIBs and see what I think. I should be able to find a V to try out too.

I assume the IIB and IIC are fairly different as far as the lead sound?

I had a IV and traded it for a Dual Rec 3 channel which I love. Channels 1 and 2 on the Mark IV I really liked but I kept missing the Single Rec I had back in the day so I traded it for a Dual Rec. Channel 1 on the dual rec, clean with the gain maxed is pure bliss. Channel 3 is killer. Haven't quite found what I like with channel 2 yet tho....

But I'm still so curious about all the other Marks.

I've found quite a few original Mark I's on craigslist for ~1000ish and it seems like the reissues go for about the same about. I discovered those after researching fenders and I'm quite curious about those too.

But I'm most curious about the IIC. That Master of Puppets lead sound is just something else. So does the Mark V do it justice? Or is it better to wait around and find a IIC or IIC+ for a more reasonable price?

comparing my V to my DGX and my KRG, the V only comes close on the "MK IV" setting...remember, I am comparing to 2 amps that have geq...if you are looking for liquid lead,you will for sure find it on a IIC+,IV, and V..never played a IIB
-and I must disagree with the "one trick pony" assessment-my C's, in my opinion, EXCEL MOST in the clean to mid gain territory-the V is fine, and more flexible with the 3 channels/footswitch, but the tone is...different
a 335 thru my DGX this past weekend was a ridiculous tonal revelation-I may sell the rest of my ****...
-I will be able to A/B the +,the V , and a Glaswerks tomorrow...sorry, no 'Tallica
...sorry, as age increases, the gain and the scooping decreases-YMMV
-Lesterpaul(aka "C+ Snob" 8) )

 

[Heritage Softail]

The IIC+ mode is one attempted slice of a very versatile amp.

The clean channel on the IIC is great. You can dial up the MV and get good power tube overdrive edge of breakup tones. If you have simulclass then even more flexibility.

You also have a gain boost and of course the lead high gain.

Just my opinion, but one mode attempt on the MKV is ok, but it in no way compares to having the amp with all the versatility. Then you can drive diff cabs for more flexibility. That is what I am experimenting with now.

If you can find a MKIIC to play, crank it and experience it.

I was skeptical of the hype, but it really is a giant killer of an amp.

I have my Über TJ for going there, but the IIC is def the favorite.

 

[hagcel]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of great information there.

Just to clarify I don't really play much metal and not really looking for the metallica tone but reading about the lead tone of the IIC got me pretty interested! It's great to hear how versitle it is. Like I said on the mark IV I had I prefered channels 1 and 2 and channel 1 is my favorite on my dual rec.

I have a possible trade going on right now for a Mark V. It's a fair trade so I think I'm going to do it. It will be fun checking out the V and see what it's all about. The videos from Haggerty Music make it sound like one hell of an amp!

I will certainly keep my eyes peeled for a IIC popping up locally. Were the IIC and IIC+ only combo's or are there head version out there?

 

[lesterpaul]

you will dig the V...and add a C+ to the collection one day..an investment in both tone and value
now,grab a cold one or 12, take a sick day, and do some required summer reading:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CF8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fmesaboogie%2Fwelcome.html&ei=7-LhT6rWO46u8QTh742GCA&usg=AFQjCNGs6k7Z92v9xLiRvz7-Fb1QG0DCCw&sig2=UqTkZ3k8riaSnOp6zEtJYQ

and....http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18184
good luck and enjoy your quest!

 

[gts]

Were the IIC and IIC+ only combo's or are there head version out there?

Both came in combos and head cabs.
In both short and widebody formats.
Widebody combos are less common but are out there.

A combo's chassis can swapped into a headshell and vice versa.
So if you find one or the other and wanted/ preferred the other don't say no.
You can always get a combo cab or head cab after the fact.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I will certainly keep my eyes peeled for a IIC popping up locally. Were the IIC and IIC+ only combo's or are there head version out there?

I'm just going to toss out that the IIC and the IIC+ aren't slight variations of the same amp. From what i understand there was a significant increase in gain and a revoicing. I'm not a Mark super nerd or anything so I don't know the details, but far as I know there's more in common between the Mk III and IIC+ than there is between the C and C+.

 

[JOEY B.]

I'm just going to toss out that the IIC and the IIC+ aren't slight variations of the same amp. From what i understand there was a significant increase in gain and a revoicing. I'm not a Mark super nerd or anything so I don't know the details, but far as I know there's more in common between the Mk III and IIC+ than there is between the C and C+.

I'm not a Mark super nerd either(I do like that term much better than "C+ snob", though). I can tell you that a Mark IIB with the "post FX volume mod" sounds more like my C+ than any Mark III that I have ever owned or played, and that would be all the stripes, Coliseums and whatnot. 8)

 

[chipaudette]

The IIC and the IIC+ are totally different animals...well, they're still Mark-series amps, but the IIC is unique among all the Mark amps. It's not like the IIB and it's not like the IIC+...it's different.

I had a IIC and after a few months a sent it in to Mesa along with a decent-sized check and they modified it to be a IIC+. Yes, its gain levels, its overdrive feel, the way the effects loop worked...it was all very different.

So, if you like the sound of the Mark IV or V and are considering a IIC+, be sure to actually get a IIC+ and not a IIC. Or, if you're interested in exploring the Mark sound in general, then you could consider a IIB or a IIC instead.

Chip

 

[hagcel]

Thanks guys.

Man it would be fun to be able to try out all the mark series amps! Does the Mark series represent experiments and the development of Mesa Boogie with the pre-IV models?

I did end up making a trade for a V. Should be here in a week.

How does the Mark I mode compare to the original or reissue? I'm pretty curious about that too.

 

[SonicProvocateur]

The Mark I mode on the Mark V has more gain on tap than the original. I find it super awesome. What it doesn't have is the massive power overhead from the first turn of the master knob - the Mark V's master knob is much more "tamed" so that when the knob is on 1, you get reasonable volume and "meh" bass output. What's normal to vintage Boogies is that if you are on 1 you have somewhat reasonable volume, but by the time you hit 2, you are at full club volume and by 3 you are practically at arena volume. The Mark V is much more linear and you have to crank it a bit harder to get the same vintage Boogie volume response.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Does the Mark series represent experiments and the development of Mesa Boogie with the pre-IV models?

The Mark series has been a constant evolution, up to and including the Mark V.

 

[texwest]

There are deals out there. I bought a iic simul head on ebay three months ago for $1300 and sent it to Mike B at Mesa. With shipping the mod to c+ was about $600. Mark iic+ simul head for $1900 total. Better price than buying a brand new Mark V.