Lead drive vs. tubes--Studio .22+

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Bob Anthony

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I know this has been discussed a lot here, but the info is rather scattered. I have a Studio .22+ with the Lead Master. I am thinking there is too much of a jump between the clean and lead channels now and am debating whether to do the Lead Drive Mod vs. a low gain tube. I tried this once with a 12AT7 and nearly ruined the amp. Would a 12AY7 be a better choice, and should I go with V1 or V2 for positioning? I don't want TOO low of a gain, just a bit more balance. Also, if anyone can run through the Lead Drive mod for me and show pics of the back of the chassis I would be ecstatic. Thanks.
 
Hey Bob,
A couple of thoughts for you, just from my own experience. I've got a .22+ I bought new in '91. I've been experimenting with it more in the last year or so. I've tried 12AT7's, 5751's and 12au7's in v1 and v2. Some on here talk about great success doing this. I never really liked the results. I always got weird sounds and noises, and less dependability! Mesa Boogie told me changing the phase inverter tube to anything other than a 12ax7 wouldn't work well. I'd have to agree. I got more noise and increased feedback tendency. I haven't seen anyone talk about the fact that this amp can have a more significant tonal change by plugging straight into the "return" on the effects loop. This cuts out the entire preamp section except for the master and presence. You do lose the 2 channel foot switch thing, but I'm running my effects into my .22 this way, so I just switch off and on my overdrive in my effects. I generally use only reverb, delay and overdrive, so it works really well and gives me great EL84 power tube tone by itself. I have an effects unit that takes a tube, so I've got a 12au7 in there to lower gain. It does create limitations, but gets rid of all that heavy Mesa distortion, so I love it. The other advantage is, of course, instant ability to reverse the setup, back to "normal"! Mesa will send you a schematic for the lead drive mod upon request. Ask for Mike Bendinelli. I'd get you pictures, but mine doesn't have the mod. If you get the mod done, let us know how it works. Just my 2 cents!
 
Hello Bob,
I have a Studio 22+, and use a 12AY7 in V1. That's the best spot for it. I've been very happy with it. You'll still get some volume imbalance at VERY low volume levels, but other than that I've been very happy with the sound.
If you are a heavy metal freak, you may miss a little bit of thickness in the sound, but my advice is, give it a go. It's cheaper than the drive mod, and instantly reversible.
cheers, Bill.
 
@cornellguitarman
so what you're telling us is that you've tried to bypass the preamp section of the amp by going into the return jack of the amp and used the your OD as the PREAMP? that sound like an interesting experiment:D

Also,does the Lead Drive Mod provide this kind of scenario : i want get a little more distortion of my lead channel ,by maintaining the clean channel pristine sounding (no breakup) ? or does it just lets you dial a less gain than the value of the volume knob (general preamp gain)

Thx
 
Hey Tacoiardul!
You got it! I'm actually chaining an effects processor (with limited effects, and a tube built into it), with my Wampler Plexidrive. I'm running both straight into my effects return. This cancels out the entire preamp section except the ability to use the master and presence. I'm getting effects driven by one low gain tube, and a specific Plexi sound run straight to EL84's. All volume is the same, just not the preamp Mesa gain stages. Just like Tonejams V1 setup, it is instantly reversible! This is literally a recommended setup option from Mesa, straight out of the manual for my .22+. If you haven't tried it, give it a go. It gives you more options!
Thanks,
C
 
Thanks for some of the ideas-I might try a 12AY7 in V1-As for the send/return, I use a lot of pedals, so that was an issue-But this is a different wrinkle that I may try if I strip down. I don't really want to soup the amp, and I generally don't like Master Volumes-It works fine with a standard setup and clean channel only, but I sometimes like the channel-switch. My preference is really clean cleans and OD/Dist of the Rory/Trower/Bolin/Koss variety. I talked to a tech at Mesa who preferred to have me send the amp in rather than do it locally.
 
I did try the "return" setup-not bad at all, esp. for clean, but not quite enough grit. It's definitely the way to go with a processor or POD. I found that messing with the EQ helped shape the drive sound a little better.
 
I think my set up is 5751in V1 socket and a 12AY7 in the V2.

You do loose some of the metal grind in the lead channel (if that's important to you) but the channels' volume are better balance. My Graphic is in "Auto" so I don't use the graphic in the clean channel.

My technician buddies claim that the 12AX7 and 12AY7 have similar characteristics only difference in gains and a 12AT7 is not recommended as a substitute for 12AX7 yet a 12AY7 to lower gain is.
 
I'm getting good results by tweaking--The 5751 in the drive channel probably will win-A 30% drop in gain from a 12AX7 would be about right, and a creamier tone that this tube would give off. Again, if I use the POD live or in the studio I would definitely consider the "return" patch-It would bring a little tube goodness to the sterility of digital.
 
would you think that plugin in the electro acoustic guitar into the return of the 22+ would be a nice ideea?i dreamed about it last night:))
 
The results are in--12AY7 in V1 is a HUGE improvement!! Instead of the lead channel "barking," now it sings with gusto. If you are a player who prefers a classic OD sound you should try this. Still lots of gain, but less "honk." Kind of like someone singing from their diaphragm instead of through their nose. Strat fans in particular should give it a shot. Thanks for all of the feedback.
 
The AY blew very quickly in my amp, but the AT in V1 sounds killer...not as much of a gain reduction as an AY or AU, which were too much of a loss and both blew. I don't really want to mod the amp, but people seem to like it.
 
Lead drive info:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=20415&highlight=schematic

just scroll down for schematic

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2223437
 

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