Lack of EQ

[rectified.mafia]

Hi There,

This is my first post so be gentle lol.

I have had my Express 5:50 1x12 combo for about 6 months and I absolutely love it. I play all music styles but mainly write hard rock and metal stuff.

I have noticed that the EQ on this amp isn't very responsive (especially on the burn channel). The treble and mid controls don't really do much at all. Is anyone else experiencing this? Or is it just me? The clean channels EQ is a little more responsive but still like nothing I have experienced with any amp. Does anyone have any suggestions besides getting an EQ pedal to put in the loop.

Would a change of Pre Amp tubes help? I was going to purchase a High Gain selection of Pre Amp tubes anyway and if this can help maybe someone would be able to point me in the right direction.

Peace

Mafia

 

[Krek13]

I have 5:25 but had the same problem...change your preamp tubes, they are probably worn out...you will get a massive change...
I took JJ ecc83s...

 

[rectified.mafia]

Hey There,

Thanks for the heads up I thought this might help. I will change them in the next 2 weeks and report back when the deed has been done.

 

[grc911]

Treble, mid (and base) knobs small adjustment = dramatic changes.
Something not right.
Probably a tube problem!
New tubes!

 

[rectified.mafia]

I also think there may be something wrong. The thing is though, I have found it to be like this since I bought the amp brand new 6 months ago. I want more gain out of it so I want to get a tungsol or JJ high gain in the V2 position. Any ideas as to what preamp tubes would give a slightly tighter tone? I find the Express to be very bass heavy and woofy. I understand that playing a 1x12 combo would contribute partly to that, but I have owned other combos that have had a tighter bass response that doesn't flubb out when playing in higher gain stages.

Now I'm not a newby when it comes to playing Mesa's. I understand how the each know on the eq can effect the sound of another. I know that rolling back the gain will give you a tighter bass response, but it's just not working on this amp.

These are the setting I am using to try an combat this problem

Gain - 1 to 3 O'clock
Treble - 1 O'clock
Mids - 0 (none)
Bass - 7 o'clock (almost off)

It still isnt tight at all. I have played with the eq so much trying to find that sweet spot and to see if I can get more out of one control by backing off another that I am getting frustrated.

If new tubes doesnt help then I may just sell it for a Mini Rec. I'm going to get one anyway but it will just make it even sooner Thing is I love the clean tone, crunch mode and blues. They are so very musical, but High Gain metal tones are just too hard to get. Please help as I don't want to sell it.

 

[Newysurfer]

I also think there may be something wrong. The thing is though, I have found it to be like this since I bought the amp brand new 6 months ago. I want more gain out of it so I want to get a tungsol or JJ high gain in the V2 position. Any ideas as to what preamp tubes would give a slightly tighter tone? I find the Express to be very bass heavy and woofy. I understand that playing a 1x12 combo would contribute partly to that, but I have owned other combos that have had a tighter bass response that doesn't flubb out when playing in higher gain stages.

Now I'm not a newby when it comes to playing Mesa's. I understand how the each know on the eq can effect the sound of another. I know that rolling back the gain will give you a tighter bass response, but it's just not working on this amp.

These are the setting I am using to try an combat this problem

Gain - 1 to 3 O'clock
Treble - 1 O'clock
Mids - 0 (none)
Bass - 7 o'clock (almost off)

It still isnt tight at all. I have played with the eq so much trying to find that sweet spot and to see if I can get more out of one control by backing off another that I am getting frustrated.

If new tubes doesnt help then I may just sell it for a Mini Rec. I'm going to get one anyway but it will just make it even sooner Thing is I love the clean tone, crunch mode and blues. They are so very musical, but High Gain metal tones are just too hard to get. Please help as I don't want to sell it.

just cause you bought it new doesn't mean the tubes were in good condition.
Could have been a used & abused demo amp for years.

You need new tubes though.
There's lots of threads on re-tubing the 5:50 here - do a search.
The tube mix recommended by www.dougstubes.com will give you what you want.
- more gain
- tighter bass
- more responsive EQ
- much less amp humm
- smoother thru every voice

 

[StevenL]

5:25 here. Most responsive and useful eq on any amp I've played.

 

[rectified.mafia]

Hi Everyone,

First off, I would like to thank all who have replied top this thread. I have ordered a set of Preamp and Power amp tubes from Dougstubes. I ordered the Below for the Pre Amp

V1 - Tung 12AX7
V2 - High Gain JJ ECC83
V3 - Penta 12AX7
V4 - Penta 12AX7
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7 LPS

and a set of Tung Sol 6L6GC Power amp tubes also. Hopefuly that solves my issue. Now just need to get a rectifier 2x12 and I will be set

 

[Krek13]

Now just need to get a rectifier 2x12 and I will be set

try the recto box first, I didn't like it at all with express head :wink:

 

[rectified.mafia]

Ok,

So I have put the new tubes in and I don't really hear much of a difference at all. The bass is tighter slightly, but the EQ controls are still the same! I have little response from the EQ period! Arrrrrgggggg so frustrating.

 

[HaggertysMusic]

I don't think there's anything wrong with your amp. I'm not sure how anyone could describe the EQ on the express as "responsive". It's not responsive at all when dealing with high gain. I've played dozens of them, and they all have a similar non-responsive aspect to them on higher gain settings. This is because the EQ is pre-gain. You'll never get the tone shaping abilities of a post-gain EQ out of it.

It's just the nature of the amp, and why the Express Plus was such a needed update, adding a post-gain graphic EQ, which should have been in the amp from the start. :roll:

My advise would be to get a quality EQ, put it in the loop, and enjoy your amp! It will bring it to life.

 

[rectified.mafia]

Hi Don,

Thanks for your reply. I am so happy that I have found someone who has experienced the same issue. Your explanation makes perfect sence to me now and have started using the EQ on my TC Electronic Nova System which sits in the loop. It has helped 10 fold. Also I changed my tubes a few weeks back and got a little more gain out of the amp. It's sounding amazing.

I watch your videos on youtube Don. They are great, keep up the awesome work.

 

[Newysurfer]

Ok,

So I have put the new tubes in and I don't really hear much of a difference at all. The bass is tighter slightly, but the EQ controls are still the same! I have little response from the EQ period! Arrrrrgggggg so frustrating.

Well you're the only person I've seen say tube change doesn't make much difference
And the EQs make a huge difference on my 5:50 and I don't agree with Heggarty either :mrgreen:

 

[rectified.mafia]

Well since Don has given me that info I have put his words to the test. I have played my mates 5:50, and 5 others in various music stores. I found the same thing with all of them. The equaliser is not very responsive at all (especially with the Burn channel). Good thing that the voicings on the Express are top notch and using an EQ in the Effects loops sounds fantastic.

I have owned a rectifier previously and this EQ does not respond the same. In fact turning the Mid dial on the Express 5:50 from 0 all the way to 10 is probably about as responsive as turning the rectifiers dial from 0 to 4. I have found this with every Express I have played. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't turn me off, but to say it's the most responsive EQ ever is so far from the truth.

 

[Trea]

I bought an MXR 6 band eq and run it in the loop. Problem solved.

 

[lbrusso]

Hey Mafia,
I was glad to run into your post, I'm suffering from the same 5:50 tone issues. I know tone is a subjective thing and describing it can be pretty difficult. But my amp has always sounded a bit nasally, kind of pinched.

Compared to my little Fender Frontman 25R which is very full sounding, even at high gain. I figured I just needed time to get it dialed in, but have never been able to get the amp to open up and experienced the same lack of response from the EQ section. After reading tons of recommendations on this board, I gave Doug a call and purchased the tubes he recommended.
While the tubes did give me a bit more gain, got rid of some hum, and did give the Crunch voicing a little more attitude, I can't say it opened the amp up at all and the EQ is still lacks responsiveness.

I had a Mark II years ago, and that's what drew me back to Mesa in the first place. I play a lot in very small spaces and I really like the 5/50 power switching, and I love the clean tones of the amp. While I am chasing a tone best described as that from my Frontman, if I go to its bigger brother the 212 or a Twin Reverb, the volume levels needed to get those amps to sound good is just short of dangerous.

I'm not ready to give up on my 5:50. The features on it that I like, I really like. And like you, I have been on a quest to figure out the secret sauce for the 5:50, and have played more than a few in stores and practice places. I now believe that the pinched, kind of flat tone I am experiencing with mine, is a characteristic of the amp. I can't fault the amp, I should have done my homework better. But now I have some hope reading your post about adding an EQ in to the effects loop of the amp.

So, never having used an effects EQ, is there a favorite brand and model, or one about the same as the next?
And am I understanding you correctly that you are running the EQ through the effects loop on the back of the chassis, not in front of the amp?

Very best regards
Larry

 

[Krek13]

Use EQ in the effects loop and you will get drastic changes in sound on any amp, including express...I own a 5:25 and have tried an EQ in the loop, you can dial anything you want, more sliders = more options...but I don't use it because im satisfied with my amp...dont bother about brands - boss, mxr, ibanez, ehx etc. will do the job, just dont get behringer because it sucks your tone...

EQ in front of the amp won't give you such drastic changes because you can only change the tone of your guitar going into the amp, but not the amp itself...

 

[rectified.mafia]

Hey Mafia,
I was glad to run into your post, I'm suffering from the same 5:50 tone issues. I know tone is a subjective thing and describing it can be pretty difficult. But my amp has always sounded a bit nasally, kind of pinched.

Compared to my little Fender Frontman 25R which is very full sounding, even at high gain. I figured I just needed time to get it dialed in, but have never been able to get the amp to open up and experienced the same lack of response from the EQ section. After reading tons of recommendations on this board, I gave Doug a call and purchased the tubes he recommended.
While the tubes did give me a bit more gain, got rid of some hum, and did give the Crunch voicing a little more attitude, I can't say it opened the amp up at all and the EQ is still lacks responsiveness.

I had a Mark II years ago, and that's what drew me back to Mesa in the first place. I play a lot in very small spaces and I really like the 5/50 power switching, and I love the clean tones of the amp. While I am chasing a tone best described as that from my Frontman, if I go to its bigger brother the 212 or a Twin Reverb, the volume levels needed to get those amps to sound good is just short of dangerous.

I'm not ready to give up on my 5:50. The features on it that I like, I really like. And like you, I have been on a quest to figure out the secret sauce for the 5:50, and have played more than a few in stores and practice places. I now believe that the pinched, kind of flat tone I am experiencing with mine, is a characteristic of the amp. I can't fault the amp, I should have done my homework better. But now I have some hope reading your post about adding an EQ in to the effects loop of the amp.

So, never having used an effects EQ, is there a favorite brand and model, or one about the same as the next?
And am I understanding you correctly that you are running the EQ through the effects loop on the back of the chassis, not in front of the amp?

Very best regards
Larry

Hey Larry,

I was at rock bottom with this amp for a while. After spending $120 on a set of new Preamp and Power tubes I noticed a slight difference. The difference being slightly more gain (and usable gain might I add), and a smoother voicing. If you take a look at some of the earlier posts you can see which tubes I purchased.

My main problem has been the amps EQ. It's not very responsive on the Burn channel (or any channel really, but the burn channel is pretty much nonexistent). The bass knob is so powerful that I need to back it right down (even with the EQ in the loop) I have the setting at about 9 O'clock, maybe even lower with my Mahogany bodied guitars.

I use my TC Electronic Nova System in the FX loop, It has a built in parametric EQ with 3 bands so I can boost or back off any frequency I need. If you are looking for a good EQ that’s simple, my recommendation would be a Modded Boss GE-7 (I say modded only because the un-modded ones suck!) or a MXR 6 Band EQ. Having the EQ in the loop basically acts as the Graphic EQ on the new Express Plus series as it is Post Gain. You can tailor your sound to whatever you need.

Hopefully that helps mate. Let me know if you need any more info or advise. I'm always happy to help

 

[StevenL]

And for the rest of us who aren't aiming for the compressed train wreck noise...not that there's anything wrong with that: 8)

Learn to set your boogie at a reasonable, musical gain level for each channel and enjoy the capabilities of the wonderfully responsive eq section. Maybe the 5:50 has a dead eq section, I don't know. Haven't played one. But the 5:25 eq works very well indeed for it's intended purpose. (The amps are identical but for the power section.) It takes a while to learn the Express amps. Each different gain structure requires a different eq setup. These aren't set-everything-to=11-and-rawk amps. If that's what one wants, buy a Peavey fizz-bomb, a Krank, or some other high-gainer, not an Express.

Yep the eq becomes less and less responsive as you enter compressed high gain land. Of course. But to say that this applies in general to these amps, at least to the 5:25, is absurd. I think quite a few folks (metal-heads) buy these hoping to get the famous Mesa high-gain blast a little cheaper and then are disappointed when it doesn't happen. Then, here come the pedals, eqs, etc., trying to get it. Still can't. Then sell the Express get a used Peavey xxx. Finally in metal-grinding heaven. :mrgreen: **** lousy Express amps!

 

[lbrusso]

Thanks all for the advice and direction.

"And for the rest of us who aren't aiming for the compressed train wreck noise..."

Hmm.. can't say that applies to me, I'm not a metal head. My tonal preferences lean more to the likes of David Gimour, Joe Banamassa, Alex Lifeson, and Robin Trower to name a few. Like I said earlier, I was drawn back to Mesa because I loved the tone of my old Mark II, but frankly couldn't afford the Mark V. After asking around a bit I was steered toward a the Express series. And as I said, the features on the amp that I like, I really like. Admittedly, I should have spent some more time with the little amp before buying it, but I really thought I just needed to learn how to tweak it.

I like the texture of the crunch and blues voicing, and love the clean voicing, especially with the new tubes from Doug. I seldom use the Burn channel, and certainly don't set everything to 11 and annoy the dog. But I still find the tone of the amp kind of flat, and every one of the dozen or so 5:50s I've played since then sound the same way, I've never played a 5:25 so I have no idea if they sound the same. Obviously there are who folks love the tone of their Express series, and that's great, I just find mine to be wanting. I'm not faulting the amp, it is what it is, I was just wondering if there were other Express owners who felt the same way as I did and curious what if anything they did about it.

It may very well be that I need to sell the amp and find something different, but there is so much about the amp that I like, that I would really like to keep it if I could coax a fuller tone out of it. And it sounds like the EQ in the effects loop may do the trick.

I think the Express is a fine little amp. I wasn't trying to run it down, and I certainly didn't mean to hurt anyone's sensibilities. Thanks again for the help.
Regards to all,
Larry