Just picked up a Phase 90...where to put it???

[plapnab]

Hi all,
Just picked up a MXR phase 90 on the cheap and was wondering where's the best place to put it in my Dual Rectifier. Here's what I'm running.

Front of amp: Vox Wah > Planet Waves tuner > ISP Decimator

Effects loop: MXR 10 band EQ > Holy Grail Reverb nano > BOSS DD-3

Thanks

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

It depends on your preference. I like it out front.

Eric

 

[Heritage Softail]

Mine is out front in the front of my signal chain. Ibanez Flying Pan phaser/panner. Works great, stereo output, acts as the splitter into the front of two amps.

Did you try in the loop and in the front? What did you like best? That's what really matters.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Like the man said: "Put It Where You Want It".

This would be normal:
Front of amp: Planet Waves tuner > Vox Wah

Effects loop: MXR 10 band EQ > ISP Decimator > MXR phase 90
> BOSS DD-3 > Holy Grail Reverb nano
(I put the gate before the phase and delay effects because you may not desire the reverb tails, for example, to be gated off, but, YMMV.)

But, hey, why be normal?
Generally, modulation and ambience effects go in the loop because they belong post-distortion, so the distortion is being effected, instead of the effect being distorted. But, of course, experimentation is cheap and free.

 

[plapnab]

Like the man said: "Put It Where You Want It".

This would be normal:
Front of amp: Planet Waves tuner > Vox Wah

Effects loop: MXR 10 band EQ > ISP Decimator > MXR phase 90
> BOSS DD-3 > Holy Grail Reverb nano
(I put the gate before the phase and delay effects because you may not desire the reverb tails, for example, to be gated off, but, YMMV.)

But, hey, why be normal?
Generally, modulation and ambience effects go in the loop because they belong post-distortion, so the distortion is being effected, instead of the effect being distorted. But, of course, experimentation is cheap and free.

Good point! The loop it is. Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[94Tremoverb]

Not so fast!

Phasing can sound very good pre-distortion too - a lot of people prefer it that way. It's more 'liquid' sounding and less 'airy'. I like it both ways for different sounds, and actually prefer low-intensity phasers like the Phase 90 in front of the amp. (But more powerful ones in the loop.)

Also, the Phase 90 has very low headroom, and will often cause unwanted distortion or loss of volume in an FX loop.

Try it both ways, see which sounds how you want it and works the best.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

I prefer my MXR EVH Phase 90 in the front of the amp, but after all my OD and/or distortion pedals...

 

[plapnab]

I tried it in the effect's loop and there seemed to be some kind of phase issue with running it there. My loop is not modded so maybe it's not compatible with parallel...or could have hooked it up backwards in retrospect. Anyhow, moved it back to the front of the amp and it sounds fine. Probably only use it for a couple Van Halen songs.

 

[fluff191]

I tried it in the effect's loop and there seemed to be some kind of phase issue with running it there.

..............if it caused a flanging issue, then I would be worried. :lol:

 

[TimeSignature]

Where to put it???

On ebay or craigs.

Im not a fan of that pedal (not a Van Halen fan either...) LOL

Seriously though, I used to run it in the fx loop before I sold it but its all personal preference.

 

[plapnab]

If it had a flanging issue I might be onto something big...the new phaser/flander mod. Yes, i'm not a big fan of them either...but, I have room on my pedal board and for like $30 what the heck. :wink:

 

[survive autodafe]

loop.

 

[94Tremoverb]

I also forgot to say that the Phase 90 reverses the phase of its dry signal (*not* the same as the phasing effect, which is continuous phase shift of the wet signal) which will cause trouble in a parallel loop. You will get a little loss of tone and volume even with the Mix set to full up.

 

[plapnab]

I also forgot to say that the Phase 90 reverses the phase of its dry signal (*not* the same as the phasing effect, which is continuous phase shift of the wet signal) which will cause trouble in a parallel loop. You will get a little loss of tone and volume even with the Mix set to full up.

Agreed...tried it in the loop again just on it's own and it sounded horrible. Put it behind the Wah in the chain in front of the amp and it sounds fine. I'm kind of annoyed by what you can and can't put in the effects loop of an unmodded DR. I'd like to switch it to a series loop but from what I understand I would loose the solo boost feature on the amp?

 

[94Tremoverb]

No, not true. On a 3-channel Rectifier you should only lose the ability to footswitch the loop off (you will get silence instead, because the bypass path goes via the Mix pot) and on a 2-channel Rectifier you don't lose anything at all except the annoying dry signal bleed.

But, the larger problem with the Phase 90 is likely to be the headroom issue, which is not improved by making the loop series. The pedal has such low headroom that you can even overdrive it with a high output pickup when it's in front of the amp - it's just an old design, from before the days many amps even had loops.

 

[Heritage Softail]

No, not true. On a 3-channel Rectifier you should only lose the ability to footswitch the loop off (you will get silence instead, because the bypass path goes via the Mix pot) and on a 2-channel Rectifier you don't lose anything at all except the annoying dry signal bleed.

But, the larger problem with the Phase 90 is likely to be the headroom issue, which is not improved by making the loop series. The pedal has such low headroom that you can even overdrive it with a high output pickup when it's in front of the amp - it's just an old design, from before the days many amps even had loops.

Great reply. Never heard the thing about the dry signal phasing though. You ever work on/use an Ibanez Flying Pan/Phaser FP777? I am not a phase guy normally but this pedal got my attention and found it's way on the board.

 

[94Tremoverb]

I think a friend of mine has a Flying Pan somewhere... I'll try to remember to ask him!

The phase reversal issue is quite common with pedals - it just depends on how many gain stages the signal goes through in the pedal, most of which are inverting... so an even number of stages results in an in-phase output, and an odd number results in out-of-phase. It really doesn't matter unless you're mixing it in parallel with a truly dry signal, since the nature of the effect itself disguises any potential tone change from the phase reversal. But it is another reason why parallel loops (crude ones where the dry signal can't be completely turned off, anyway - like the Mesa one) are a bad idea.

There are some pedals which have different phases depending on what mode they're in too - like the Mesa V-Twin (Clean is opposite phase from Blues/Solo). And plenty of channel-switching amps where the channels are out of phase with each other, which can cause trouble in multi-amp setups. If only things were simple .