JP2C vs Mark V

[kreatorkills]

yes, i tried it next to a v and the jp2c definitely sounded better than the 2c+ mode in the v, but i actually preferred the iv mode better side by side. maybe i'm not a 2c+ guy though because i rarely use it on my v as i prefer iv and extreme much more. i thought the fat mode sounded much better then the clean on the jp2c. i didn't try any effects though and i only had about an hour with it.

I think you need to give the JP2C another shot! If you're a fan of the mark V's heavy tones, the JP should have made your head explode! Its that good. I don't even think that's my opinion, it's a fact. The JP just does it better. It has the best qualities of each mode in the V's third channel. It has the aggressiveness of the c+ mode, the warmth and fluid smoothness of the mark iv mode and the thunk and chunk balls of the extreme mode. Then it has its own special raw, open, clear sound. Anybody who owns a V that plays one of these and says they prefer the tones they get on the V better, I just can't belive them. You gotta give it another go man, I think Petrucci is right when he said in the manual that this might be the greatest guitar amp ever built!

It dials in pretty close to the V's lead channel as far as clock face on the controls. And I can't tell if the GEQ is a little touchier or if the amp just has more to EQ. Funny story though. I dialed in my les paul in no time on the first day. I decided I was going to use it for channel 2 and my Alexi model guitar (Jackson RR1 style) for channel 3, because I have it tuned to drop B :shock: It was taking me forever to get a good tone out of it on channel 3. It was just too fat, I couldn't tighten it up. I tried everything. I started to think this amp can't do drop tunes worth a crap. On the V, in Mark iv mode I would use this guitar with the gain on 12 o'clock. Finally I rolled the gain back and found my tone. At just under 9 o clock!!! And that's without the gain knob pulled! It was strange because with the gain on about 11 o'clock it didn't sound like it had too much. This thing has sooo much gain it is stupid. Now I have a blackout pickup and a slight gain boost built in the guitar, without the boost, gain would've been on about 10 o'clock. Still, a lot lower than I'm used to. So with that preset gain set a notch or two higher in the amp, you have to remember that and set it a little lower than you're used to in the V. I just can't belive how much gain this amp has. And it doesn't turn to complete mush, it's amazing.

To be honest i just wanted to check it out, but i'm very happy with my V. I have some cool pedals and i can reach any territory i need and beyond. I play all kinds of styles and i love edge a tweed mode. I don't think edge mode gets enough credit, it is so touch sensitive and so dynamic with my les paul and it just purrs with single coils when picking soft. It's really unique and i dont know what other amp sounds like the edge mode.
Your right though, the jp2c did seem like a hot rodded mix of channel 3, definitely tight and dynamic with great harmonics. Maybe down the road i'll pick up a used one 8)

 

[SamuelJ86]

To be honest i just wanted to check it out, but i'm very happy with my V. I have some cool pedals and i can reach any territory i need and beyond. I play all kinds of styles and i love edge a tweed mode. I don't think edge mode gets enough credit, it is so touch sensitive and so dynamic with my les paul and it just purrs with single coils when picking soft. It's really unique and i dont know what other amp sounds like the edge mode.
Your right though, the jp2c did seem like a hot rodded mix of channel 3, definitely tight and dynamic with great harmonics. Maybe down the road i'll pick up a used one 8)

When I'm not in channel 3, I love crunching out in tweed mode on 10 watts. Getting those power tubes just to start breaking up. And throwing in el34s makes it even better. When I bought the V I thought it was going to be with me the rest of my life. It did it almost everything, but it doesn't do the JP2C.

I agree that in a band setting, and most recording applications, most people listening won't be able to tell the V from the JP2C. Even the videos mesa has put out doesn't capture what is special about the JP2C. But you, the player, will tell the difference. Mesa talks about becoming inspired when you play through their amps. And for me, the JP2C has more inspiration in it than the V.

 

[SamuelJ86]

Honestly, a little change pushed my markv in tone heaven:

I LOVE the markIV and this mode on the V suits my style of playing just perfect.

But in order to get the 'faithful recreation' some of us are after, you have to put the original preamp tubes (from that era!) in the V (in my case EHX). From a technical point of view I understand boogie for choosing JJs, but for markish tones I doubt this is the best choice.

I wonder how the JP2C can sound like the original 2C by using JJs??? Honestly, I think something like that is only possible by a view little 'adjustments' and/or schematic tweaking


For the V addicted:

You have to try the EHX preamp tubes!
(Also try a GZ34 Rectifier - increased headroom for the 10W mode brings back the thunder => quiet, big and jucie on stage.)


For the JP2C addicted:

How does that thing sound with the old boogie tubes?

I've never been a tube roller. I've rolled a few but that's a road I don't want to go down. And if you are a tube roller, why tubes? Why not speakers? Or cabinets? It's just an endless road it seems like. With my experience with different tubes it's like seasoning on steak. People like different things but I usually trust the chef. It used to be an insult to the chef to put salt or pepper on your food. The seasoning isn't going to make or break your steak. Unless it's habanero sauce or something. But, :mrgreen: I would like to try those mesa 415 6l6s. I'm curious to know what the all fuss is about with those babies. Probably msg :lol:

 

[Markedman]

I never could jive with the five. I had a national act, "Beyond the Shore" stay at my house on an off day when they were passing through, they played Mark V amps and didn't even want to try my Marks, llC+, lll black & blue stripes, IV, & S.P. w/295. They felt the V was so much better. So they took their showers and played video games then went to bed and were back on the road without even considering what a vintage Boogie felt and sounded like. The mini mark I had was great but lacking that something, I blame the tubes and low power (tiny tranny.) This review makes me want to call my MESA dealer and say "WTF, where's my JP2C?" The delay must be the amps coming back for modification are taking priority. Soon enough I'll have my grubby paws on one, thank God I have my C++ to curb my GAS.

 

[APEMAN]

-

 

[domct203]

............. This review makes me want to call my MESA dealer and say "WTF, where's my JP2C?" The delay must be the amps coming back for modification are taking priority. ..............

Must have missed this... what is this 'modification'?

Dom

 

[LesPaul70]

Must have missed this... what is this 'modification'?

´

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=71516
More specifically,
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=71516&start=15#p485717

 

[domct203]

Must have missed this... what is this 'modification'?

´

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=71516
More specifically,
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=71516&start=15#p485717

Thanks!

Dom

 

[MrSmitty]

I agree with what Samuel said about Mk V vs. JP. I just spent the past couple hours comparing the amps back to back. The JP definitely sounds and reacts better than the V. The JP (Chanel 2 or 3) actually sounds closer to my Mk 3+ Lead channel. So far very happy with the JP2C, will put it to the test at a gig this Friday.

 

[bandit2013]

This is reminding me of the topic the Mark V CH3 Mark IV mode does not sound like the Mark IV. I don't mean to dig this out and should have left it buried.
By the way, the Mark V does not sound like the Mark IV as I had both of them at the same time for a while. There were certain characteristics that I could get out of the Mark IV that were amazing when pushing the amp though a 412. Even Rhy2 sounded incredible in that regard but suffered lameness in the combo platform. Perhaps the difference is the bias of the inner pair of tubes as it is a bit more than the traditional Mark Amps. Not so sure on the plate voltage as I did not seem to bother to understand it back in those days. The JP-2C has in its gain character what the Mark V is missing. I was missing my Mark III for some time after I sold it but setting up the channels was no easy task since everything shared the common set of tone controls. The JP-2C will take you back to those amps far more than the Mark V but with more modern switching technology as the foot switch uses the midi controller. My JP-2C is new compared to my Mark V. So far out of the box experience is memorable, it sounds incredible such that I have no desire to make any tube swaps to compensate for some of the ice pick tones I got from the Mark V. I could not even set the treble control on CH2 or CH3. I have had my woes with the Mark V and probably more than most would endure. If I ever got another Mark V at least I know the tricks unless changes are made for improved reliability. Out of all of the Mesa amps I have ever owned, the Mark V had the potential to be a great amp but it was more of a disappointment. Why I kept it so long I still wonder to this day. Both my Mark III and Mark IV amps were phenomenal amps. The Mark III I had for 24 years. Mark IV I had for 15. Never had one single issue or complaint about either of those amps. Mark V on the other hand, well best not to write a novel. However, I endured with the Mark V once a head, now a combo and discovered way that made the amp playable. I have no concerns how loud the amp is but if it is brittle it is no deal.

JP-2C can be brutal if you want it too, top end can be bright as you want it but before you get to the Mark V ice pick tone it will feed back. I am not claiming all Mark Vs are ice machines, they are not. I fixed my woes and now actually like the V. I got the JP-2C not to replace the Mark V but it could easily do such. I do like the 9 flavors and 5band push ups too, however not all flavors are guaranteed to satisfy. Yeah the ice-scream-mark. I do understand that there are those that love the Mark V, I finally bonded with mine a while before I got the JP-2C. Does it sound like a IIC+ ? I do not care. It sounds great. From what I have heard in some video recordings or other, it sounds close enough. The JP-2C has a sound I would like to tailor my own music too. It reminds my of my amps long ago but has the ball to push all of my other amps against the wall of shame. Actually it would complement the Roadster quite well and may even blend well with the Mark V. I actually love this amp. Was playing at low volumes today, and yes it still has awesome sound so you do not need to blow out your ears to enjoy it. Far more touch sensitive than the Mark V or even the RA100. I actually feel that the JP-2C is more of an extension of your guitar vs something you hear make noise. Actually that is one characteristic that I love about the RA100. Roadster is a bit different, you feel your music not just hear it. The JP-2C has the puch and authority that will sit on top of the hardest chug out of any DRec or Trec. Not all amps are created equal, and not everyone will feel the same way. Perhaps after this amp is out of production a decade from now, those that have complained or disliked something about it when they had a chance to get it new, will be seeking it out on the used market and paying double than what it would cost today saying it was the best amp ever made.

 

[mace]

For the power section I always stay with mesa 6L6s. I change only the preamp tubes (todays stock JJ => back in the days stock EHX). The whole preamps opens up and starts to sound wide and open instead of narrow and thin. The annoying wah-like frequencys are gone and all the controls have a wider range... more treble more gain more bass... I would recommend that 'cure' to every MarkV owner (as well as the GZ34 rectifier tube as a 'cure' for the 10Watt mode).

Hi Apeman,

Any particular brand of GZ34? I keep asking about these tube modes because if I'm curious is the sound of the V can be tweaked a wee bit. It is easier to change a couple pre-amp tubes and give that a whirl rather than drop 3 grand on a JP2C. Plus, I really don't want to lose the flexibility of the V.

Thanks!

Mace

 

[APEMAN]

-

 

[mace]

Hi all,

I came across this video (I didn't see it posted in this thread). 1st half is with backing track, 2nd half with guitar only. A very nice comparison (and very good playing).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKpBsgeHAE

I own a Mark V and have been hearing and reading good things about the JP2C. It seems there is a bit of a difference from this video but only a bit (at least to my ears with my basic iPod headphones). These amps sound pretty close to each other, at least how the guy has them dialed in (which isn't clear... he does list Mark V settings in the comments, but they don't seem to match the photo).

From what I remember in the Petrucci IIc+ / V bake-off, the gain was set higher and mids lower than in this video.

Would be interesting to hear some other folks' opinions here, of this particular video. To me the difference seems very, very minimal. I wouldn't be able to guess which was which in a blind test. Maybe I have a tin ear.

Later,

Mace

 

[SamuelJ86]

Hi all,

I came across this video (I didn't see it posted in this thread). 1st half is with backing track, 2nd half with guitar only. A very nice comparison (and very good playing).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKpBsgeHAE

I own a Mark V and have been hearing and reading good things about the JP2C. It seems there is a bit of a difference from this video but only a bit (at least to my ears with my basic iPod headphones). These amps sound pretty close to each other, at least how the guy has them dialed in (which isn't clear... he does list Mark V settings in the comments, but they don't seem to match the photo).

From what I remember in the Petrucci IIc+ / V bake-off, the gain was set higher and mids lower than in this video.

Would be interesting to hear some other folks' opinions here, of this particular video. To me the difference seems very, very minimal. I wouldn't be able to guess which was which in a blind test. Maybe I have a tin ear.

Later,

Mace

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=72177

 

[mace]

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=72177

Excellent. I will carry on in the other thread! Thanks,

Mace

 

[bandit2013]

You can dial in the JP to sound like the Mark V and vice versa. You need to have both amps to do it. The obvious difference is the midrange saturation. Mark V has a higher frequency in its midrange peak vs the JP-2C. The 5BEQ seems to have more response in the JP-2C (does not matter which one you use) when compared to the 5BEQ of the Mark V. I have not seen the schematic for the JP-2C so it is difficult to narrow down why one amp sounds different than the other. I see the Mark V as a novelty as it has the ability to mimic other Mark amps in the past, they are not exact though but close enough. Also note when capturing audio of the amp there will be some frequencies filtered out by the microphone. Another key point, if I were to record a track using the JP-2C (say though a TC ditto or other digital recorder) and use that to play back though the Mark V, there would not be much of a notable difference between the two amps. Reason, when recording (assuming the speaker is not in an isolation cabinet) there will be some of the amp signal from the speaker influencing the guitar output. Once the recorded track gets re-amped through another tube amp, the coupling between the guitar and the amp's speaker is gone as well as what you hear when you play direct though each amp. This occurs even if the original raw signal was recorded directly from the guitar an not by microphone, again assuming that the guitar has not been isolated from the speaker of the amp. Just an opinion or observation...

the video you had referenced, at 1.47 to 2.01 on the timeline, there is some difference between the tone. Too bad it was not a live image vs a picture as there was nothing connected to the input jacks and the power was turned off on each amp. Sounds more like a single guitar track was used, wonder which amp was used for the original track, then re-amped through the other amp.

At least having both does not render one useless since they are different in sonic character.

 

[bandit2013]

Samuel,
Now that you have both Mark V and JP-2C, which one gets played more?

When I was in NJ over the holidays (Christmas) I went to play though the TC-50. I also played though a Mark V combo to compare what I remember mine sounding like. That Mark V sounded great. The point (there is none actually)... The person who was helping me out said that many come in and compare the TC-50 to the JP-2C constantly. He never said which one do they choose.... Odd that he did not comment on the Mark V in that regards.

 

[SamuelJ86]

Samuel,
Now that you have both Mark V and JP-2C, which one gets played more?

When I was in NJ over the holidays (Christmas) I went to play though the TC-50. I also played though a Mark V combo to compare what I remember mine sounding like. That Mark V sounded great. The point (there is none actually)... The person who was helping me out said that many come in and compare the TC-50 to the JP-2C constantly. He never said which one do they choose.... Odd that he did not comment on the Mark V in that regards.

It's been almost one full year with the JP2C! It went by quickly. Time seems to go faster the older I get. During that time the V never even left the house. The JP2C got all the attention. I feel like I'm missing out on something if I'm not playing the JP2C. In my opinion, the JP2C is the superior amplifier. At home, I played the JP2C probably 90% of the time compared to the V. Most of the time I played the V it was just to compare it to the JP2C. I'd spend hours going from one to the other, marveling at the differences and the similarities.

Lately, I've been running the V through the JP2C's power section and vice versa. Trying to get a feel for how much influence the power section has. It's a lot, almost as much as the preamp it seems. The difference in transformers can definitely be heard, but even more so, felt. What else is cool is running the JP2C through the V with el34's!! Freaking awesome! The JP2C's midrange seems to have this pocket that the el34's sit in and fill out. It's wonderful! I highly recommend giving it a shot. It was my favorite new sound for a while, until I started running the JP2C in stereo with the V with el34's. Even more awesome. I run my el capistan in the JP2C's loop, then splitting the signal, left signal goes back to the JP2C's return and right goes to the return on the V. Sounds incredible!

So the V was collecting dust for a while but I've found some new ways to use it. Mainly as a slave but at least it's getting a workout. I'd still probably say the JP2C by itself is my go to tone, but mixing it up with the V has been very rewarding.

 

[bandit2013]

That sounds great... I have not given up on the Mark V yet... and probably will not. If you had a Roadster to mix in with the JP-2C, that is amazing. Both amps blend quite well together. Actually I prefer that mix vs using the Mark V. Unfortunately I only have one 412 loaded with EV's and I removed the mono/stereo part on the jack plate as this was giving me issues when I first got the Mark V as a head. Part of discovery for root cause on early power tube death (The V kept red plating Mesa tubes and just about everything else except the SED =C=). Got that fixed just before I got the JP-2C. Now my problem is drums.... as of late I have been spending more time on the drums than guitar. Still, I have the JP-2C ready to go at any time and will crank it up when I go home for lunch. The Mark V is in the same room as the JP-2C, now has dust cover on it to keep it clean. At least I am making use of the dust covers now as I had not in the past. Trying to get the one onto the 412 is a PITA as you have to pick up the head and move it to get the cover on the cab.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

For the power section I always stay with mesa 6L6s. I change only the preamp tubes (todays stock JJ => back in the days stock EHX). The whole preamps opens up and starts to sound wide and open instead of narrow and thin. The annoying wah-like frequencys are gone and all the controls have a wider range... more treble more gain more bass... I would recommend that 'cure' to every MarkV owner (as well as the GZ34 rectifier tube as a 'cure' for the 10Watt mode).

Confused... I thought you liked the EHX tubes, but this says Todays JJs = "greater than" back in the day stock EHX