Is your rig better than you are?

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great idea for a thread chris.... and i believe im guilty as charged :oops:

although when i find my rig is in a groove i can just play and play for hours. when somehting doesnt sound or feel right it bugs the hell out of me and GAS starts to kick in. the big BUT in the equation to me atleast is good gear for the most part will uncover flaws and i think having gear that makes you play better can only be a good thing.
 
I love the gear I've got. I worked hard to make the money to buy it, and even though I've only been playing for a couple of years, I would absolutely say I'm as good as my rig.

I think there's a big difference between having a nice amp to give you a sweet tone and buying 50 effects to hide it. Since I couldn't really get a good tone through a Squier Strat and Guitar Rig 2, I figured I would upgrade. My gear now reflects what I want to sound like, not what I have to put up with.

My music is not incredibly difficult to play. I don't have the chops yet to get everything out of my head and into a recording, but since buying my TR and Engl, I've been able to do a lot more than with a modeling amp. Now that I have the tone I've been looking for, it's time for me to expand other areas of playing. The stuff I do play, I do well, but I really want to learn more styles and see what else I like.

Anyway, the way I see it is if you want to sound a certain way, regardless of your playing ability, you can't do it with the wrong equipment.
 
If a Rectoverb combo, GT-8, and two Ernie Ball Music Man gutars are too good for me then so beat it! :lol: I think I sound good (most of the time) and that makes me happy... That's the bottom line isn't it?! I've been playing for 15+ years but I can't rip out a solo like the greats that's for sure!
 
Chris McKinley said:
In the 80's, when the average level of playing chops was higher,

Not sure I agree with this-- a LOT less kids played guitar in the 80s, and maybe a higher percentage of them were working on shredding because it was on the radio.

A lot of kids play guitar now, and I think that even if there's less shredding going on they've often got a better grip on music than many 80s players because they listen to music pretty much every hour they're awake. They're a lot more original. When I was 15 in the late 80s it was rare to hear anyone under 18 who was "good" who could do anything besides overplay "Johnny B. Goode" or do a VH thing that they learned by rote.
 
When I go to the music store and see beautiful 3500$ petrucci signed guitar.... I just ask myself if this is what will make me a better guitarist... The answer is NO.

Instead, I spend my money taking lead guitar course with a teacher. I also try to develop my aural skills.

I don't feel my currect gear is what limit my skills, so I better take my old axe and practice on it.
 
On the OT of the thread, I mean, a hobby is a hobby, it's what you get out of it, not what you put in.

I have maybe five grand worth of stuff all in, but I play like two hours a day weekdays, four on the weekends. I know several guys who have dropped far more than that on road bikes that they ride for maybe one two-hour training ride a week if the weather's good Sunday morning. And don't get me started on guys who buy motorbikes...
 
"It's never been easier than it is today for the average bedroom or garage guitarist to sound as good as the professionals and guitar heroes. In the 80's, when the average level of playing chops was higher, we would have killed for such great gear at such affordable prices. I just want to keep it from becoming a crutch and a substitute for learning to play well."

I agree with you on that completely. There are some great cheap sounding products around that give people the opportunity for good tones. My buddy and I were talking the other day how we wished we had began playing guitar during a time in which players with great chops were looked up to. He and I both started playing in the mid 90's and none of the popular guitar players were anything special. In the past 6 or 7 years though I've been getting into more technical music but I feel like if I had started out like that I would be a lot better of a player. The average guitar players abilities are dictated by what music is most popular at that time.

I think 8 years ago my rig was way over me. I think what I have now suits me and maybe it slightly under my playing ability. I'm definitely a lot better of a player than I was but my gear superceded me.

I read a cool interview with Robben Ford and they asked him about players always searching for boutique amps and he said people worry too much about that and don't work enough on finding their own voice. He said buy what you can afford and find your voice that way. You can always upgrade to nicer stuff later. I don't see the sense in spending all your money on equipment when your playing isn't up to par.

I had a student one time (he didn't practice much) complain about the sound of his guitar and he said it sounded so bad and if he had a nice guitar like I did he would sound better. Of course once again, I had a cheap epiphone lol but he had a starcaster lol. So that lesson...we switched guitars. I just went off on his guitar playing all kinds of stuff. His mouth dropped. His crappy little guitar as he thought sounded good. I had to be rough on him and say, "it's not the guitar, it's the player. If you practiced more you would sound better"
 
CoG said:
On the OT of the thread, I mean, a hobby is a hobby, it's what you get out of it, not what you put in.

I have maybe five grand worth of stuff all in, but I play like two hours a day weekdays, four on the weekends. I know several guys who have dropped far more than that on road bikes that they ride for maybe one two-hour training ride a week if the weather's good Sunday morning. And don't get me started on guys who buy motorbikes...

agreed... also consider people who go paintballing and drop a few grand on a gun, plus all the other stuff. everytime they go they pay for new paint balls and what have you. in comparison my $5000 in equipment is cheap since for the most part it retains value and last for years with minimal maintanence. also consider golf.... in the 15 years ive golfed i've blown through soooo much money on clubs, balls, golf shoes, greens fees, and whatever else. this summer alone ive paid close to $1000 in greens fees but i play because i love it and dont even think about the money. so i think its all about persepective.
 
CoG,

RE: "...a LOT less kids played guitar in the 80s, and maybe a higher percentage of them were working on shredding because it was on the radio.". First, I don't necessarily accept that a lot less kids played guitar then. Precisely because, at that time, guitar-based music was very popular...far more popular than it is today. Second, the players at all levels, from the garage to the Colisseum, were technically more capable than the average today. Yes, there were guys who sucked then and yes, there are guys who are phenoms today. We're talking averages, not the guys at either extreme.

The kind of music that was popular, and therefore being learned and emulated by the younger guitarists, was not only far more chops-heavy than today's fare, but in fact represents the technical pinnacle thus far in the history of rock n' roll. It was not uncommon to hear solos on popular music that technically was more similar to that of classical violinists than it was to anything else in rock's short history. It was also not uncommon to hear Van Halen- or Yngwie-level licks coming from a typical garage. You can't say that today.

RE: "A lot of kids play guitar now, and I think that even if there's less shredding going on they've often got a better grip on music than many 80s players because they listen to music pretty much every hour they're awake.". While due to technology advances, it may be likely that kids today listen to more sheer volume of music per day than previously, I most definitely disagree that kids today have a better grip on music. The average level of knowledge of actual music theory was never higher than it was in the late 80's, and much of that disappeared with playing chops in the early 90's when Grunge came along as a pendulum reaction against the technical excesses of the 80's.

Besides, listening to lots of mediocre playing does not impart a particularly impressive depth or breadth of knowledge of music. Not that just everyone could do it back then, but today's kids on average would be hard-pressed to look at a key signature and tell you what key a song is in, or what notes to choose to harmonize a solo passage, nevermind being able to determine chord substitutions or chord progressions.

RE: "They're a lot more original." That claim is much harder to guage, given that it is nearly purely subjective. It may be true. The 80's were certainly a time of widespread emulation of a relatively small group of innovators. However, today's players, on average, sound just as cookie-cutter, only on a less technically-advanced level. Not a lot of originality among the average players then or now, to my ears. Then again, one might say that about any period of rock's history. Even in the supposed golden age of the late 60's, the innovators were relatively few compared to the total number of players, and the average players still did their best to emulate their favorite innovator. Nothing new under the sun, really.

Technically speaking, guitar playing took a nose dive throughout the entire decade of the 90's once Grunge arrived. The rap metal of the late 90's/early 00's was even simpler. So-called nu-metal of the 00's was even simpler still, predominantly characterized by extreme downtuning and (as if the power chord wasn't already simple enough) one-finger power chords. Actual guitar solos have only recently returned to the radio, and still only very sparsely, and none which even come close to rivalling the technical difficulty of the 80's.

I recently met the guys in Dragonforce at a local show. Besides all being very friendly and humble guys, they represent a singular shining exception to the overall trend. Technically, these guys were every bit as good as the best of what we had in the 80's (if not better). They were refreshingly unaware of just how good they were. I wish them continued success so that they may inspire new generations of players, Guitar Hero aside.

I'm also aware of Rusty Cooley, Guthrie Govan, Alexi Laiho and others from today who are monster shredders. Technically, they are every bit as good if not better than 80's guys. However, they all suffer one major serious disadvantage: unlike in the 80's, their music isn't the popular genre of the day. Radio isn't playing guitar hero music. Metal is dominated by the worst example of unoriginality in its entire history: the 'death metal, cookie monster-as-lead vocalist, anemic-kickdrum-playing-32nd-notes-in-every-song, twin-guitars-playing-32nd-note-riffs-without-solos, every-song-sounds-exactly-the-same, clone band'.

Bottom line: shred may not be dead anymore (like it was in the 90's and early 00's), but it is still on life support in intensive care. Full recovery will either take years or an unlikely return to the popularity of shred music on pop radio.
 
Does it really matter how fast people were playing before and now?

I think what people have been playing in the last 25 years is only going to be listened to by people who still wish to play like that and those who grew up with it and thus don't know any better.

Why do you think there's been such a huge classic rock resurgence?

People are still listening to Pink Floyd and Rush and from the 80's U2 and Depeche Mode because the groups did something different musically rather than being the most incredible players. These days if you walk into Guitar Center and hear somebody play Yngwie's stuff the only people who won't look at that as wank-age are the few people who still look up to that ****.

Rush and Pink Floyd had their hey day in the mid 70's. In the mid 70's the best players were in Fusion but hardly anybody remembers it. Not only that Van Halen 1 was only a couple years later and the only people who still listen to it are the few who still wish to play like that.

There's a reason why shred died in popular culture. In my opinion David Gilmour said more with 3 or 4 notes than Jimmy Page did with the vast majority of the diarrea he played and that's not even getting into shred. Overly notey and sloppy Pagey may have been but at least his soloing was somewhat coherent. I cannot say the same about Yngwie or the majority of anything Steve Vai ever played.

As far as making Shred tuneful incredible honorable mention can be made to Satriani and John Petrucci's solo work.

My perspective is of a music college drop out. I saw the best players in my area duking it out with the "my dick is bigger than yours" shred challenge on a day to day basis. I wasn't the best in my class I was in the top half but all those who played faster than me played faster and that was it.

Their problem: They couldn't construct a solo or improvise. What they played didn't fit together. They didn't really understand how to develop an idea no matter how many times it was explained to them by the teachers.
 
i may get flamed for this but i'm really glad shred died. while impressive, the "musical high" lasts only a short amount of time. it was innovative for about a blink of an eye when it first emerged and then everyone and their mother was copping a feel. if chris brought out one good point its that there were a lot more people in the 80s who knew music.... they knew the theory and could read it and write it which is huge because whether people like to admit it or not it makes you a better player. things can be learned physically but when you engrain it in your brain and know how it works, it gives you that much more of an edge in your writing. this is why bands like the beatles and floyd wrote so many timeless songs and why gilmore's solos are always highly regarded. so in that regard the 80s were definitely shreds hay day, but the 60s/70s had the best musicians.

and as far as dragonforce... cool guys with a lot of talent but everything they write is a mosh of notes and nintendo sounding fx. they need to learn the concept of space.
 
cradleofflames,

RE: "Does it really matter how fast people were playing before and now?". No, of course not, and no one has said it does. This thread is not a referendum on shred guitar. I thought I had made it fairly clear that it's about maintaining a balance between gear-chasing and actual practice as a means of improving one's guitar sound.

RE: "Why do you think there's been such a huge classic rock resurgence?". Perhaps because it's good music? Frankly, there really isn't any particular resurgence of guitar-oriented music; it simply never completely went away. Some younger players, who normally ignore the music of older generations, have become bored with the lackluster guitar playing of their own generation and have begun to delve into the history of rock guitar to see what else is possible.

Most of the rest of your post was a subjective opinion piece on how Gilmour is "better" than Page, or how Satriani and Petrucci are "better" than Malmsteen and Vai. While such claims are not particularly useful in the context of this thread, it's at least useful to note that to be able to play like any of the gentlemen mentioned above, even the least "shreddy" of them, requires a great deal of familiarity borne of time spent on the instrument. Gilmour's tastefulness is no less easy to replicate than Yngwie's raw speed. Gear alone, no matter how high the quality, will not make you sound like either man, therefore, my original point still holds.

Though I was part of that scene, I, too, am glad that shred for the sake of shred is history. But what many players ignorantly do is to confuse excellent technical ability with a two-dimensional stereotype of shred wanking. To call Wes Montgomery or B.B. King tasteless because they played very fast would be absurd. It's likewise just as silly for many players who claim that, because they are too lazy to practice enough to play well technically, they are somehow magically more soulful, tasteful or melodic instead. Yes, B.B. can say more with one note than most of us may say in our entire musical careers, but that vibrato of his didn't arrive by magic, it came through many years of dedicated playing and practice.

jdurso,

You make a great, if oversimplified, point about the relative strengths and weaknesses of various eras of rock history. Bands like the Beatles played through gear that would be considered marginal to crappy by today's standards, even well into their professional careers. However, they proved that great songs can be written and played with gear that isn't "boutique". The best example may be the fact that Sgt. Pepper was recorded on a 4-track tape recorder.

Today's players have access to the best gear that musicians have ever been able to get, and most long-time players will tell you that good gear does help you sound better than crappy gear...no surprise there. What I notice too often today though is that younger players buy into the idea that "the right gear", whatever that may be, is what you need to be a good player, often eschewing disciplined practice as a result. This results in a lower average ability among today's players and, more importantly, fewer choices in the ways they can express themselves musically.

There are fewer historically important, innovative guitarists in the last 16 years than in previous years of rock's history. Whether one chooses to play shred with it or not, technical ability is still one of the most important factors in giving a guitarist the widest possible palette with which to paint his musical expressions. Good gear helps, too. Both at the same time would seem ideal, no?

Anyway, thanks again, guys, for the thoughtful and topical discussion. :)
 
good post chris... im with you on all your points. one thing ive discussed many times with my other guitar playing buddies concerning no innovative guitarists in the past decade or so, is the fact that the underground scenes arent as strong as they used to be. i still hear from my uncle who's band did some tours with chicago (he also got to fill in at times :D ) about the idea of musical communities which today seems all but gone. it seems like those communities bred talent to the point where everyone who played was an actual musician. today i dont see that, or if its there the scenes are very small, isolated, and filled with more of the "this is my band and we're better than you" mentality, rather than more of a band of brothers, sharing mentality. he said that quality guitar players were a dime a dozen back then, and the only ones that made it were the ones that could exist in a band and write good songs. i think that it was bred innovation, the same way it does in science. when you get that many heads exchanging ideas, techniques, you breed musicians and end up getting a few innovators out of that. i know this whole post is kind of OT but its a good discussion piece because those players made that gear work.
 
Who would wish to replicate anything? Replicating in it self defeats the purpose of learning the instrument. Replication is an end unto itself while only creation can yield further evolution.

I didn't start playing because I wished to play just like someone else. I wished to play because the way listening to a certain musician made me feel. Replicating someone else's style won't pass that feeling to others, only originality has that potential.

In my opinion gear has no bearing on how good or bad a musician is. Most people who buy gear they won't use end up selling it. But that's also the point, the best musicians amongst us will be able to find a use for anything regardless of how technically able they are.

Tom Morello is a good player but not the greatest but that's not the point. He did more with his guitar, cable, a handful of pedals (I believe it was 6), and an amp than anyone else did for the instrument in the last 20 years. That is an example of less is more in comparison to say Vernon Reid's pair of 20 space racks who scarcely anyone truly remembers.

Some people work better within certain prearranged restraints or conditions. Those people generally create more from spontaneous unorthodoxy than preconceived ideas.

Others can't unlock their full creativity without enough gear to have any already existing idea of sound available to them with a little tweaking. These people are generally analytical with every sound and texture they develop was carefully planned before they ever plug in.

How does one compare gear to playing ability?
Is it buy how much the gear is worth that they do have?
The quantity that people have?
or how much of what they but is gratuitous?
 
Extremely good thread Chris, and everybody, thank you so much for all your insight.

I am as old as dirt, and have been playing now for 48 years and, without reservation, can say music has been, and always will be, the love of my life. Got my first guitar when I was 7 years old and never looked back. My goal for my imminent retirement is to go back to music school.

Toured Europe back in the early seventies for a couple of years and got a pretty good taste of life as a pro musician. It was hardest job I ever had, but I wouldn't have missed it for all the world. Probably the most fun too. We were rehearsing our second album while playing mostly covers, from the south of France into Germany, Holland and Belgium.

When I reflect back on that time, I realize I had very little idea of what I was doing musically, but our audience was big and encouraging and I was enjoying myself immensely.

Got divorced a few years ago, after 26 years of marriage, and although I never really gave music up (I always had a little studio and a couple of guitars and amps) my responsibilities and family came first, and my music time was limited.

But I am now a "free" man, and I am back at it with a vengeance, and a sense of urgency that I don't think I had when younger. The situation is very different now, as I can indulge myself like never before, (my kids are all grown and having kids of their own) and my studio has grown to include some very nice toys.

I have what by any standards a could be called terminal case of GAS (see sig.) and that does not include 2 dual quad core Mac Pros (16 processors) dedicated to the studio, and quite a few Ks worth of software, plugins and outboard hardware. So yeah, I am an unabashed gear junkie gone nuts.

However as others have so eloquently put it, all this equipment amounts to about a motorbike, or a lot less than a boat, and my best friend has his own plane and is gassing for a new one.

Having said all that, I do not think of myself as a particularly good guitar player, and sincerely hope that I never do, as I truly believe that this is the force that drives me to improve. A quote from Vladimir Horowitz, arguably the greatest pianist that ever lived, shortly before he died at age 87 "I am just beginning to understand music." To me music is a vast bottomless pit that no one will ever get to the bottom of, and like the saying goes it's the journey not the destination thats important.

Perhaps the most important things I have in my studio is my collection of learning tools, the full scores to Mahlers Symphonies, the guides to orchestral composition and arrangements, and more rock and roll song books than you can shake a stick at. While amps and guitars and other equipment may come and go, these treasures will never leave.

I recently bought the John Petrucci "Suspended Animation" tab book, now available at his website, and with some diligence on my part, it will probably take me six to nine months to nail my favorites to my satisfaction. I practice 2-3 hours a day and more on weekends. I am not a very quick learner, but I am thorough, and the satisfaction I get from this is worth every minute of the effort it takes.
I also have everything Guthrie ever published, and the tab for his short but amazing solos from bluesjamtracks, which I am also working on.

I really learn this stuff as an aid to my own composition, and don't see any need to distinguish between the two, as I have no ambition to ever be commercial again, I learn constantly, because to me, it's the purpose and meaning of life.

All that, and I can still sit on my hair, and do still play a metal gig now and then.

Rock on fellow musicians!
 
cradleofflames said:
Who would wish to replicate anything? Replicating in it self defeats the purpose of learning the instrument. Replication is an end unto itself while only creation can yield further evolution.


I do I do!

I learned to play guitar so I could sound just like the bands I loved. We play cover so I replicate all the time. Nothing wrong with that in my view.

I started playing guitar in 1964. It has been a great ride to be there for all the "classic rock" 1st and second time around.

I also write. We play originals to be "open-ended" so to speak. :)
 
Awesome thread!!

I have to agree that the 'average ability' of players today (especially in the younger age range) is lower than what it used to be back in the heyday of metal. But I think this harkens back to the issue of mass media and the differences in the world we live in from the world back then even 20 years ago. The internet, increased mass-market TV, video games, etc all compete for the attention of today's youth.

I noticed a lot of kids these days, despite having all this technology at their disposal, still can't perform basic tasks needed for survival from day to day! There is definitely an 'instant gratification' effect going on today and it definitely effects us musicians. But the change to a less technical popular music scene is not just the fault of that. What gets airplay these days is largely controlled by companies like Clear Channel and there are definitely a ton of bands still making amazing music...it's just most people would rather listen to an inane, catchy tune and get drunk than listen to great music every bit as visionary as that of LedZepp.

Now to the original question: I definitely think I have better gear than I deserve. I haven't been playing too long but I already have quite choice gear. Personally, I think I blow. :) But, if anything, such nice guitars and equipment has given me immense pleasure and motivation to practice and improve my chops. A PRS through a Roadster is MUCH less forgiving than an LTD (no matter how good the EC-1000 is) through a Line 6 Spider III, and as such, I've cleaned up my playing substantially and have gained a lot of insight on technique as well as tone.

Do I have GAS? Probably. I've spent like 7-8 grand on gear within the last year. But, I don't own a car (can't drive anyhow, I'm as blind as a bat, I swear), have ordinary clothes and a crappy computer. Pretty much my only 'prized possessions' are my guitars and my rig. I think it pretty much balances out in the end. So long as the bills get paid and my lady doesn't complain too much, I'm good to go. ;)
 
cradleofflames said:
As far as making Shred tuneful incredible honorable mention can be made to Satriani and John Petrucci's solo work.

I agree 100% here. Shredding becomes noise real quick, if there's no melodic values behind it. Satriani and Petrucci both make some great melodies and use their chops to the extreme, without becoming "too much".

Anyway, it's my opinion and it makes sense to me ;)
 
Hey guys , when I saw this I had to post something as a player who has been at it for 30yrs working professionally from the time I was 14.

The best quotes to me on this are from two guys who were my heros growing up and who only 1 is famous. " If I spent $1000.00 on a new set of golf clubs, I'd still play like **** so why bother?"" That was Tommy Tedesco's analogy for spending a lot on gear vs. practicing. Lukather once said that he would sound like himself on whoever's gear it was , even if it was a cigar box with barbed wire.
I see plenty of guys in bar bands or home studio/garage bands with a $3K Les Paul/Tyler/PRS and a $4K amp and can't play to save their lives. Do I care? If they want to waste their money and it makes them happy, I don't care. They're not gigging, probably have never had to join the union and do a club date, metal gig, bar mitzvah and jingle session all in the same weekend. I have as many of you probably have. I've done more gigs with a Dean Markely DR-80, Rat fuzz, delay pedal and my trusty '73 strat before having the boogie stuff and a rack of crap and still paid the bills.

It all depends on what you're after and if its a hobby or a living. All the guys with $5K to burn on amps/guitars, they're probably nice guys and its a hobby. No skin off my back and not competing for my gigs.
The bottom line: have fun whether its a living or a hobby and the better the gear, sometimes the more fun. Ultimatley though, the gear doesn't matter.
 
While not exactly on target, especially with some of the tangents this has taken (i.e. shred, classic rock, etc..), I find that it still holds relevance to the inital post's query into gear versus skill. Terms like good and bad are so subjective, but its pretty easy to look at your own internal process and see what's the underlying motivation if you are only willing to...

"The trick is to make sure whatever gear you use inspires your creativity, rather than substitutes for it. If you find yourself constantly out of ideas, stepping on a pedal (or buying a new one), then playing the same stale lick that you were already bored with, you'll probably want to dig a little deeper than that.

If a raw tone gets the juices flowing but a wet one doesn't, there you have it, easy decision. and vice versa. Also, mix things up every once and a while to make sure that what you like hasn't changed, because sometimes that is what humans do, we change. I used to hate mustard when I was a kid, but now I love it. Glad I stopped to try it again down the road!

Remember, you can be pre-dispositioned to believe whatever you want, but its only the end result that matters. Your ears are the ultimate litmus tests. anything else is a headtrip.

I view my gear use as another part of the creative improvisational aspect of my playing. I intentionally layer and tweak things to come up with unexpected sounds, often on the fly in a song. Step on this, tap tempo that, use my wah as a sweep EQ (rather than to go wakachika) to find that perfect frequency response, etc... In turn the tones I come up with often inspire different responses in my playing.

as a good buddy of mine once said, there's an alchemy to it..

I find that it helps push me out of my comfort zone. Certain "stock" licks won't come off well through certain effects and tones. Instead I have to stay present in the moment in order to produce something that works well with that particular sound.

While this approach isn't for everyone, I really enjoy it. Then again, sometimes I go to a side gig with nothing but amp& guitar just to make sure that I am not in a overly dependant relationship :lol: .

As you can tell, my object is to keep things as fresh as possible for myself. Stagnation is my arch nemesis!!

happy exploring!"

to add, IMO, every guitar player should own an acoustic and know how to enjoy playing it. Not only will it help keep things real, but it could turn out useful in the event that the power gets cut for more than an hour...
 
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