is there a way to make Triple Rectifier 3 channel 100 watts?

[guitarman32]

Someone told me to make the triple rectifier 150 watts to 100 watts you take a rectifier tube out and 2 power tubes. Is this information correct and has anyone tried this?

 

[mikey383]

It can be done, but it is not recommended.

Reason being: The load on the output transformer is mismatched.

With a Dual Rectifier, you take out 2 tubes, which doubles the impedance the OT sees. Your 4 ohm out now becomes 8 ohms, 8 becomes 16, etc.

With a Triple, you're talking thirds. So your 4 ohm out becomes 5.3, 8 becomes 10.67, etc. It's unevenly mismatched this way.

 

[guitarman32]

thanks so much. ill def just keep it how it is

 

[jdurso]

thanks so much. ill def just keep it how it is

What was your reason for knocking it down to 100Watts? The decibel difference between 100 watts and 150 isnt much. Now if your looking for less headroom/earlier breakup then yeah knocking it down to 100watts could do that. Another way around that is to through a different preamp tube in the V1 slot. The RTF ecc83 is a great tube for getting tht earlier breakup in the preamp, and when paired with the TR's uber-powerful power section your looking at a brutal tone at lower levels. Just some food for thought if thats what you were going for.

 

[JW123]

Get an attenuator for your amp.

In the picture you see a Weber Mass on top of my amp. If you won a hi-wattage amp like a Triple some form of attnuation is the only way to use these amps unless you are playing concert venues, Which Im pretty sure you arent.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

+1 to all above...just leave it be. Pulling tubes from an amp may cut it's output some, but then you have an output transformer designed for 150 Watts only seeing 100. You will never reach the OT's saturation point like this (a huge part of the "cranked amp" sound).

To get arena-volume tones on nightclub stages, use an attenuator. If you're trying to get cranked amp tones for recording in your living room, you need a smaller amp. 15 Watts or so, and even that may be too loud if you jam it all the way up.

My .02

 

[jdurso]

I agree with the attenuator to a point... since there isnt a huge volume difference between 100 W and 150W, he'd need an attentuator either way. I guess what i'm saying is pulling tubes is different than attenuating your song. Personally i liked using an attenuator for about a week until i realized i really was attenuating all that much and returned it because its just didnt make sense to spend my money there.

I found a better option in replacing preamp tubes... they make a hell of a lot more difference than using an attenuator. One because your not restricting your amp or cabinet(s) and two because your not throwing un-needed strain on the power amp tubes by running them extremely hot. Remember the Recto is an amp that is based on preamp distortion not really power amp distortion... so with the right preamp tube in V1, you can get the cranked tone you would get with a stock preamp tube at a lower volume. Its definitely safer for the amp and cheaper on your wallet. Again i'm relatively new with experimenting with different preamp tubes, but over the last month i've tried about 10 different preamp tubes (NOS and stock Mesa 12ax7s) in every slot in almost every combination to find my tone. You can do a lot more with changing a few preamp tubes than buying eqs and attenuators... just my opinion, i'm definitely not preaching.

 

[JW123]

I posted the attenuator picture and believe it is a useful tool.

Currently in my Triple I have a Quartet of YellowJackets with El 84 tubes and one set of EL 34s. I have pulled tubes from a triple with no great results. I played it for awhile with 2 tubes, I know they say dont do it, but I did just to try it. It sounded very thin when I did this. It lost a lot of its character. I have played it with 4 tubes in it and it sounds pretty good, I think you can get away with this without any problems. I put probably 30 hours on mine like this. I know quite a few gigging musicians in my area that do this with Triples and quite a few that drop 2 tubes in a Dual.

Going from 6 to 4 power tubes is not a big difference in volume to my ears.

I have run mine with 4 Yellowjackets El 84s, this probably has the amp in the 40-50 watt range. But it is still very loud. Thats why I bought a Weber Mass Attenuator. Sometimes at home when I just want to practice I can crank the amp down to true bedroom levels, it is a compressed sound but it is workable. Live when I use it Im not attenuating that much and I cant hear the difference.

The bottom line to me is that if you are trying to get your volume way down then you have too much amp. A better alternative would be a smaller amp.

I play in a working cover band 3-5 times a month. We play up to 300 seat clubs, if you dont know how many seats in a club you are playing somewhere in there is an occupancy load sign. I guarantee if you look the club you are playing is smaller than you think.

I own a variety of amps a Triple, A Roadster Combo, Mesa Subway Rocket, a little SS Fender and also a POD PRO Preamp. The coolest rig I have is the Mesa Subway Rocket, 20 watts 2xEL 84s. This amp will cover up to 200 seat rooms unmiced and with a mic can handle a much larger venue. Triples are cool because of the big amp image, but I imagine that 90% of the people who own them including me so not need them. They are just too loud.

So again I think for most folks in gigging situations a power soak of some sort will make you and your band sound a lot better than blasting away.

 

[jdurso]

Triples are cool because of the big amp image, but I imagine that 90% of the people who own them including me so not need them. They are just too loud.

I dont think people buy them for the image or to get more dbs, its all about the headroom. The TR's increased headroom is the biggest difference between the DR and TR and should be the deciding factor in getting one or the other. So if your trying to get a more compressed sound regardless of the volume level, go with the DR. If you want the most headroom regardless of the volume level get the TR.

 

[JW123]

I thought I would revisit this post.

Over the past few nights Ive been running 4 EL 34s in my Triple and am getting a really good tone out of it. I pulled on Rec tube.

Ive been using all kinds of setups lately but this weekend we are running the bigger amps and Ive been playing with the Triple again. I dont know what preamp tubes are currently in the amp cause I mover them around all the time. But whatever I have in there is doing a good job and has a sweet tone.

Im really impressed with the clean tone. Im running the master around 3 oclock, gain around noon, treble and bass at noon, mids around 9 oclock, and presence around 11 oclock. My output is set around 10 oclock with the loop engaged. I play a 1960 Reissue Les Paul Classic. I have the volume on the gtr at 5 and the tone controls around 7. Its got that fender twin chimey sound and takes my pedals very well and seems to have a lot of headroom.

My channel 2 is set for vintage and channel 3 modern, with Rectifier tubes engaged.

After not using the Triple for a few months, Im loving this amp again.

 

[TREC]

I always hear that you have to have your tube amp fully dimed to get a good sound, I have found I can get a good sound at a lower volume especially when it's boosted with an overdrive pedal. A few weeks ago I saw Between the Buried and me play and Paul Wagoner was using a triple rec at it wasn't fully cranked and it sounded great in a smallish venue.

 

[jdurso]

I always hear that you have to have your tube amp fully dimed to get a good sound.

Where'd you hear that? Maybe with older amps that rely more on power amp distortion, but with a Recto you just need to find the sweet spot which generally isnt at bedroom levels, but also isnt at stage levels.

 

[gaco]

today my TR blew a fuse and I discovered that a rec tube went out. If I take out the outside power tubes will I be able to use the amp while I wait on the new rec tubes to arrive, without blowing fuses? The last time a rec tube died the amp blew fuses also. Do the fuses only blow if the bad rec tube is left in?

 

[TREC]

I always hear that you have to have your tube amp fully dimed to get a good sound.

Where'd you hear that? Maybe with older amps that rely more on power amp distortion, but with a Recto you just need to find the sweet spot which generally isnt at bedroom levels, but also isnt at stage levels.

On this and other forums especially in this thread. I think your right about past amplifiers needing to be cranked to get a good sound and that train of thought is still presant today. I guess it also comes down to personal preference.

 

[JW123]

JDurso

I played a gig this past weekend and left my Weber in the truck. I just set my gains and then used the masters to set my overall level. Worked great and I wasnt blowing the walls out of the joint.

I have 4 Mesa EL 34s in the map currently. I got a great clean sound out of it and also have a great vintage sound on channel 2. I think I have to work on channel 3 and my modern sound. It just wasnt working that well for me. I may have been running too much gain and need to open the master a little more.

But I was happy without the attenuator. This was a 180 seat room. I wasnt overblowing the pa or the drums so I guess it worked ok like that.

 

[jdurso]

JDurso

I played a gig this past weekend and left my Weber in the truck. I just set my gains and then used the masters to set my overall level. Worked great and I wasnt blowing the walls out of the joint.

I have 4 Mesa EL 34s in the map currently. I got a great clean sound out of it and also have a great vintage sound on channel 2. I think I have to work on channel 3 and my modern sound. It just wasnt working that well for me. I may have been running too much gain and need to open the master a little more.

But I was happy without the attenuator. This was a 180 seat room. I wasnt overblowing the pa or the drums so I guess it worked ok like that.

Thats what I'm saying. I think people throw around the word cranked all too often to mean blistering loud. In the past you would need to literally crank some of those old Marshalls and Hiwatts to achieve some sort of power amp distortion, but with a Recto or other preamp distortion based amps, you dont need to literally crank it to hear blistering levels. The sweet spot also isn't at bedroom levels either, its somewhere in the middle loud but not too loud. To me when someone says they need to crank the volume to get a good sound out of their recto, they mean a moderately loud volume somewhere near a small stage volume.

 

[JW123]

Jdurso

I played with the amp a little more last night. I wound up cutting the gain from around 2 oclcock to 12:30 and the treble from 1 oclock to noon, the presence back from around 2 oclock to 11, raised the master just a touch and it sounds a lot better. Its amazing how sensitive these amps are to very small changes it was real tinty and spikey the other night and these little changes just made it sound and feel so much better.

I wound up with my overall master in the 11 oclock region sat night, so it was actually pretty **** loud. It seems to be the sweet spot for this amp. My solo button around 11:30

Really came to life, but it is loud.

My next gig Im taking the Roadster Combo out for a change of pace.

 

[jdurso]

Jdurso

I played with the amp a little more last night. I wound up cutting the gain from around 2 oclcock to 12:30 and the treble from 1 oclock to noon, the presence back from around 2 oclock to 11, raised the master just a touch and it sounds a lot better. Its amazing how sensitive these amps are to very small changes it was real tinty and spikey the other night and these little changes just made it sound and feel so much better.

I wound up with my overall master in the 11 oclock region sat night, so it was actually pretty **** loud. It seems to be the sweet spot for this amp. My solo button around 11:30

Really came to life, but it is loud.

My next gig Im taking the Roadster Combo out for a change of pace.

Thats good to hear man. The controls are super senitive which is both good and bad, depending on how you look at it.

 

[JW123]

Thanks Jdurso, I think your post made me rethink how Im running my amps.

Last night I experimented with my Roadster. Reducing the gain and treble by very small fractional increments, I found some really good settings. Im also not really cranking it that loud to get these tones. This amp tends to get spikey sounding with my guitar, but Im getting really happy with it now. I lamost sold it a couple of monthes ago, but it is an awesome amp with the 2nd channel brit setting being one of my favorites. Cant wait to get it out and gig a little with it.

I guess after years of playing you kind of get locked into a certain mindset on your amps and what works and doesnt.

But after thinking about some of your post Im finding some better tones out of all my amps.

Thanks and have a Great Day

 

[jdurso]

Thanks Jdurso, I think your post made me rethink how Im running my amps.

Last night I experimented with my Roadster. Reducing the gain and treble by very small fractional increments, I found some really good settings. Im also not really cranking it that loud to get these tones. This amp tends to get spikey sounding with my guitar, but Im getting really happy with it now. I lamost sold it a couple of monthes ago, but it is an awesome amp with the 2nd channel brit setting being one of my favorites. Cant wait to get it out and gig a little with it.

I guess after years of playing you kind of get locked into a certain mindset on your amps and what works and doesnt.

But after thinking about some of your post Im finding some better tones out of all my amps.

Thanks and have a Great Day

it really is a terrific amp, theres lots to discover which can also be a source of frustration for some. There have abeen a few times I was ready to sell it and get something else. When i get in those ruts though i just let the amp sit and play my acoustic for a few days instead. I find this helps as it gets me out of the amplifier mind set and gets me back to playing and paying attention to technique. I will admit the last 2 changes to my setup (mills cab, NOS preamp tubes) has really brought things to a new level, but there definitely have been (and probably will be) times when i was at witts end with that amp. Good to hear your finding some gems.