Is the honeymoon over already??!!

[LesPaul70]

The V is less forgiving to play. Especially in pentode, and even more so in extreme. I call extreme mode in pentode "God Mode" because it's so frecking tight and unforgiving that only God could play it.

Haha, "God Mode"! :lol: :lol: :lol: I like that!
...Did I mention my favorite channel 3 setting is 90W Pentode Extreme? :twisted: Took me years to discover how totally awesome that sounds in the band mix. Never mind the other, sissy-mushy modes! (Note, though, I'm on Svetlana =C= EL-34s, so maybe I'm missing out on the total 6L6 "God Mode" experience.)

 

[dlpasco]

Pentode

The JP2C is also pentode

Thank you, sir.

I got a wild hair and called Mesa Support: they confirmed that the JP-2C is wired in Pentode, as were all the 100 watt IIC+'s.

I was thrown by something in the Mark V manual that says ALL the IIC+'s were wired in triode. The support person confirmed that this was actually "ALL simulclass IIC+'s" were wired in triode.

Knowledge is awesome!

(And thank you again, Samuel)

 

[dlpasco]

The V is less forgiving to play. Especially in pentode, and even more so in extreme. I call extreme mode in pentode "God Mode" because it's so frecking tight and unforgiving that only God could play it.

Haha, "God Mode"! :lol: :lol: :lol: I like that!
...Did I mention my favorite channel 3 setting is 90W Pentode Extreme? :twisted: Took me years to discover how totally awesome that sounds in the band mix. Never mind the other, sissy-mushy modes! (Note, though, I'm on Svetlana =C= EL-34s, so maybe I'm missing out on the total 6L6 "God Mode" experience.)

Maybe "Nightmare mode" => Max difficulty

 

[dlpasco]

Those sounds clips were a good demo Daniel. I really liked the C+ and IV samples best. Were those triode or pentode? I later looked up John Sykes and found out he used Mk III on that album. My bad, I thought it was C+. Either way, it sounds bad-***. He's probably got the treble and presence set to 10! ha ha.

I definitely played my stuff in triode on the Mark V. I flirted with pentode every once in awhile with my V but never really got into it. The small cap may have just pushed the responsiveness too far for me.

 

[Bullen]

MrSmitty I was just wondering. i assume that your III+ is a loaded version (since it was a green stripe). If so then that amp also has the bigger coupling cap. All graphic eq Marks have it (except of course the c+mode on the V). Also, do you normally use the pull deep on your III+? The JP2c has the deep function turned on in ch 2 and 3 all the time. On my Mark III the deep is not really subtle, it really fattens the sound a lot. It adds a lot of sub lows, too much sometimes but it can be tamed a bit with 80hz slider or just plain volume). Perhaps it's the deep function you have a problem with not the coupling cap. Also, pentode should be tighter than triode, right? At least that how it is on my Mark IV and the V I recently sold.

I haven't gotten my JP2c yet (Amy day now hoppfullt) so I can't really say how I feel about it, or how different it is to the Marks I have owned/own. It sure sounds great in clips. I always felt that the V was a little too thin for me. I like a little more girth and grunt. One of the reasons I recently sold my V. I would have loved a deep function on that amp.

 

[shredi knight]

....but on Whitesnake's "1987" album, guitarist John Sykes used Mark III Coliseum heads....

Yeah I later realized Whitesnake album was actually Mk III....

I replied to this thread this morning after being up all night and was tired, not realizing it had a second page and that the Whitesnake question had already been answered. :roll: :lol:

If you like Sykes' tone on that album, you should check out (assuming you haven't) Blue Murder's first, self titled album. Blue Murder is the band Sykes formed immediately after leaving Whitesnake, where besides guitar, he handled the lead vocals. On that first album, he again used his Mark III Coliseums and I think the tone is even better that on the Whitesnake "1987" record. He switched to using modded Marshalls for Blue Murder's second album ("Nothin' But Trouble"), but the tone sounded more or less the same.

 

[MrSmitty]

MrSmitty I was just wondering. i assume that your III+ is a loaded version (since it was a green stripe). If so then that amp also has the bigger coupling cap. All graphic eq Marks have it (except of course the c+mode on the V). Also, do you normally use the pull deep on your III+? The JP2c has the deep function turned on in ch 2 and 3 all the time. On my Mark III the deep is not really subtle, it really fattens the sound a lot. It adds a lot of sub lows, too much sometimes but it can be tamed a bit with 80hz slider or just plain volume). Perhaps it's the deep function you have a problem with not the coupling cap. Also, pentode should be tighter than triode, right? At least that how it is on my Mark IV and the V I recently sold.

Yes, my III+ is loaded and I do use pull deep, pull treble shift, and pull bright. I don't use Vol 1 pull bright or pull bass. Just for comparison sake, I tried pull bass and it actually made it sound and feel just like the JP2C....go figure.

 

[MrSmitty]

....but on Whitesnake's "1987" album, guitarist John Sykes used Mark III Coliseum heads....

Yeah I later realized Whitesnake album was actually Mk III....

I replied to this thread this morning after being up all night and was tired, not realizing it had a second page and that the Whitesnake question had already been answered. :roll: :lol:

If you like Sykes' tone on that album, you should check out (assuming you haven't) Blue Murder's first, self titled album. Blue Murder is the band Sykes formed immediately after leaving Whitesnake, where besides guitar, he was handled lead vocals. On that first album, he again used his Mark III Coliseums and I think the tone is even better that on the Whitesnake "1987" record. He switched to using modded Marshalls for Blue Murder's second album ("Nothin' But Trouble"), but the tone sounded more or less the same.

Blue Murder's first album is my next favorite along with the 1987 Whitesnake album. Classic 80's boogie tone!

 

[MrSmitty]

Pentode

The JP2C is also pentode

Thank you, sir.

I got a wild hair and called Mesa Support: they confirmed that the JP-2C is wired in Pentode, as were all the 100 watt IIC+'s.

I was thrown by something in the Mark V manual that says ALL the IIC+'s were wired in triode. The support person confirmed that this was actually "ALL simulclass IIC+'s" were wired in triode.

Knowledge is awesome!

(And thank you again, Samuel)

The V on triode, has smaller cap and III+ on triode, has bigger cap...both have quicker response & tighter than the JP which is pentode and presumably has bigger cap. I don't know guys, maybe it's a simul-class thing?

 

[SamuelJ86]

Yes, my III+ is loaded and I do use pull deep, pull treble shift, and pull bright. I don't use Vol 1 pull bright or pull bass. Just for comparison sake, I tried pull bass and it actually made it sound and feel just like the JP2C....go figure.

Cause it's all about that bass, bout that bass, no treble

I think it just comes down to feel and preference. That bass is just slowing things down a bit. Not a lot, but when you put these amps under a microscope like we do the littlest things make all the difference. I was playing the V's c+ mode extensively tonight, focusing on the feel of fast alternate picking. The notes almost seem to jump out of the speakers before I can play them. It's so fast and exact. The JP2C has that "sag". The notes are still tight, still fast, it's just a slightly looser feel. And sometimes, when things don't feel right, they just don't sound right either.

Everytime I plug back into the JP2C after playing my V I get this stupid little kid on Christmas grin on my face. My preference in the JP2C, without a doubt. :mrgreen:

 

[Bullen]

MrSmitty I was just wondering. i assume that your III+ is a loaded version (since it was a green stripe). If so then that amp also has the bigger coupling cap. All graphic eq Marks have it (except of course the c+mode on the V). Also, do you normally use the pull deep on your III+? The JP2c has the deep function turned on in ch 2 and 3 all the time. On my Mark III the deep is not really subtle, it really fattens the sound a lot. It adds a lot of sub lows, too much sometimes but it can be tamed a bit with 80hz slider or just plain volume). Perhaps it's the deep function you have a problem with not the coupling cap. Also, pentode should be tighter than triode, right? At least that how it is on my Mark IV and the V I recently sold.

Yes, my III+ is loaded and I do use pull deep, pull treble shift, and pull bright. I don't use Vol 1 pull bright or pull bass. Just for comparison sake, I tried pull bass and it actually made it sound and feel just like the JP2C....go figure.

That a bit weird. The pull bass is the one feature that is not included in the JP according to Mesa. I'm not too fond of this feature. It's the one pull feature I never use. It's ok on clean sounds but I don't like it on the lead mode.

Anyway, I just received word that my amp is coming to the Scandinavian importer sometime next week. So In a few weeks I should have it. Can't wait!!!

 

[MrSmitty]

I'm gonna give it another week and play one more gig with the JP. If it's still not working out for me, then I'll have to let it go. Then I'll just stick with my Mk V for gigs and V/25 for jamming at home. Or, until ("IF") Mesa decides to release a Simul-Class 2C. wink-wink.

 

[dlpasco]

You know, it's funny - in that I'm having totally the opposite experience over here. There's a point where I turn up the gain on my lead channel and holy crap I've never played this fast in my entire life.

I know that a lot of gain is supposed to hide your mistakes, but I mean, there's just a massive jump in speed. I just end up gawking at the fretboard while I'm playing, like "where the hell did this come from?"

 

[GJgo]

First I want to say that I do really love my JP2C in that what it does, it does in spades. I’m going to keep it. That said, I realize now that when I sold my Mark III blue stripe to help fund the JP it was a mistake. So, I just bought another one tonight at GC. (Missed out on a Coliseum on EBay this morning, oops..) The thing that I am really missing that the JP I don’t think has is (just like MrSmitty said) that immediacy of attack and note distinction, which my Mk III blue killed at. In comparison it feels like the JP has a lot of sag, all the time. Great for rhythm but loose for riffs. Shred helps but only gets about half way there for me. I also agree that it kind of feels like “pull bass” is always active.

The Mk III is the only amp I’ve ever played that made me feel like it was making me a better player. (I feel the same way about my ESP KH-2 for guitars.)

Dlpasco, those sound clips key exactly in on what I’m feeling about the differences. The Mark III is exactly the sound in my head. The others just don’t do it.

If a Simul-Class / triode version ever comes out I bet I’d trade.

Here's a question. How's it sound if you slave your JP pre into a Simul-Class power section?

 

[dlpasco]

Dlpasco, those sound clips key exactly in on what I’m feeling about the differences. The Mark III is exactly the sound in my head. The others just don’t do it.

If a Simul-Class / triode version ever comes out I bet I’d trade.

Here's a question. How's it sound if you slave your JP pre into a Simul-Class power section?

I need to do that AND just do a straight-up recording using the JP-2C (one lead, one shred) as well.

 

[MrSmitty]

I spoke to Mesa today and explained my situation. He says that the JP should be tighter than my other Mark amps. Which is definitely NOT the case for me. So either something is wrong with my amp, or it simply has too much sag for my playing style. If some of you other guys are experiencing the same as me....then perhaps the amp is just designed that way. And that's cool, it is what it is. I'll just stick with the quicker responding Marks and play my Dual Rect when I want sag. LOL
The Mesa tech suggested I go to a local dealer and play a display model. Unfortunately, the local deal only has a limited edition (boxed up) and they're not about to open that up for me to test drive. So, looks like I'll be sending mine back to Sweetwater.

 

[MrSmitty]

The Mk III is the only amp I’ve ever played that made me feel like it was making me a better player. (I feel the same way about my ESP KH-2 for guitars.)

That's how I felt about my Mk V. I went from Recto/Roadking to Mark V back in 2008-ish. I had to clean up my playing big time. Those Mark amps (III-V) are not very forgiving. So, maybe I'm just too used to that now, and to play a looser amp feels uncomfortable to me?

 

[nitefly]

All this talk is making me anxious! Here's something from another review on the forum:

"
The "Shred" mode is a very welcome (and for me, necessary) addition to the amp. When engaged, it does exactly as it's intended - it juices the upper mids, saturates the signal a little more, and strips a little bit of the sub-lows to tighten things up. When engaged, this helps me with two things that could have been issue for me otherwise - the Volume 1 preset, and the "Pull Deep" function being permanently engaged. In the JP-2C, all of the original IIC+ pull knobs are internally set to be engaged (with the exception of "Pull Shift" on the Bass knob). This was a little problematic for me personally, as I never used the "Pull Deep". It was always too much low end for me. If you have the same issue, I would encourage you to engage the Shred mode. By removing some of the sub-lows, it gets the tone noticeably closer to when the "Pull Deep" is NOT engaged on the original. The Shred mode also kicks the gain up a hair (not a lot), but it's enough to help offset the Volume 1 control being internally set lower than I'm used to. For those reasons, I leave Shred on all the time for both channels, as it gets me closer to the IIC+ tone I'm used to. YMMV. "

This sounds like engaging shred more could work for you, but you may need to adjust your tone stack / eq?

If you want shred mode engaged for leads only I suppose you'd have to select shred on channel 2 only and use channel 2 as your lead mode.

 

[dlpasco]

If you want shred mode engaged for leads only I suppose you'd have to select shred on channel 2 only and use channel 2 as your lead mode.

FWIW, midi switching provides the ability to jump between configurations easily. You can call up channel 2 in shred with one setting and turn it back off again with another. Super useful.

 

[SamuelJ86]

I've ran my JP2C through the V's power section a handful of times now. I go fx send from the JP, to the fx return on the V. Because of this I can't use the V's GEQ. I really couldn't tell much of a difference in feel. Again, the GEQ is not in this equation so maybe that pesky cap isn't either, idk, but it felt very similar. The sound, on the other hand, is different. Basically, more upper mids. Right around the frequencies that the pushed presence control on the JP uses. And those upper mids get a nice kick in the butt when you flip it to pentode. So with the V's power amp, the JP2C has some more mid punch, which would definitely be helpful for playing fast leads if you wanted to be very precise and have a little more cut.

I don't want people to get the wrong impression about this thread; the JP2C is not loose at all. It's not saggy and it's not slow. It's extremely tight and aggressive. But for whatever reason, (the smaller cap, or more upper mids) the V just feels ever so slightly faster to play. I strongly recommend anyone interested in this to read pages 14-16 of the mark V's manual. Doug explains this very well.

As for the mark III, I don't know, haven't played one.

Shred mode will help sharpen things up a bit. But you should start from scratch with the tone controls so you can dial out some of the harshness that comes with shred mode. If you hate shred mode that much then I would also recommend running your 80hz slider lower than your V's. Since the JP2C has more lows, the 80hz slider is more powerful. I can get the JP very close to feel and sound like V. It is interesting to me that this issue took MrSmitty a few weeks to discover that this is a deal breaker. It just goes to show how meticulous we can be when it comes to our tone. :mrgreen: