Is it weird that..

[DS-1]

I've got the same problem in my band! The other guitarist plays with a Brunetti (italian brand) EL-34 based, while I have a Triple Recto. The difference in the sound is almost the same showed in this Youtube link: my Mesa sound darker and then it will disappear in the mix. I was thinking to buy EL-34 for my Triple, because I've red here that it could move the mid cut from low to high, but reading this post I noticed that you're talking about preamp tubes, too. What do you think we could to to "open" the sound of our Rectifier?

what cab are you playing through?

I first tried with the classic Marshall 1960a, and the Triple was REALLY dark, so I changed the speakers, trying to emulate the Mesa Recto 4x12: I installed 4 Vintage 30 at 8 ohm, and I feel that the sound was changed, but not that much. So I've tried with an italian brand cab, with 2 speakers, 1 Celestion Vintage 30 and a 15" speaker by Jensen, but the result was the same. The funny thing is that if I swap the cabinet (I use the "Brunetti" cab, and the other guitarist, with the Brunetti EL34 based, use the Marshall cab), the result is similar: he cuts the mix, me not... If you ear at the Youtube link, you can understand clearly what I mean. In my opinion Mesa has a more "balanced" sound, but it cuts the mix not so well, as the ENGL. Do you think changing tubes can help me? EL34 can do this? Or do I need some different preamp tube, too?

 

[jdurso]

I've got the same problem in my band! The other guitarist plays with a Brunetti (italian brand) EL-34 based, while I have a Triple Recto. The difference in the sound is almost the same showed in this Youtube link: my Mesa sound darker and then it will disappear in the mix. I was thinking to buy EL-34 for my Triple, because I've red here that it could move the mid cut from low to high, but reading this post I noticed that you're talking about preamp tubes, too. What do you think we could to to "open" the sound of our Rectifier?

what cab are you playing through?

I first tried with the classic Marshall 1960a, and the Triple was REALLY dark, so I changed the speakers, trying to emulate the Mesa Recto 4x12: I installed 4 Vintage 30 at 8 ohm, and I feel that the sound was changed, but not that much. So I've tried with an italian brand cab, with 2 speakers, 1 Celestion Vintage 30 and a 15" speaker by Jensen, but the result was the same. The funny thing is that if I swap the cabinet (I use the "Brunetti" cab, and the other guitarist, with the Brunetti EL34 based, use the Marshall cab), the result is similar: he cuts the mix, me not... If you ear at the Youtube link, you can understand clearly what I mean. In my opinion Mesa has a more "balanced" sound, but it cuts the mix not so well, as the ENGL. Do you think changing tubes can help me? EL34 can do this? Or do I need some different preamp tube, too?

if your happy with your tone but just want to get the right cut i would use an eq in the loop and pull up your mids a little. if you need to pop when taking leads/solos look into an OD as well. If your already using both then i still think you might want to look at a different cab... maybe something like a mesa halfback with EVs and Black Shadows. since its front loaded, it will be a little bit brighter but i think front loaded cabs pop more than rear loaded cabs which are a little darker. In my experience the big part of your "tone" is the cab.

 

[DS-1]

If your already using both then i still think you might want to look at a different cab... maybe something like a mesa halfback with EVs and Black Shadows. since its front loaded, it will be a little bit brighter but i think front loaded cabs pop more than rear loaded cabs which are a little darker. In my experience the big part of your "tone" is the cab.

Are you talking about this cabinet?

 

[Roaster]

If your already using both then i still think you might want to look at a different cab... maybe something like a mesa halfback with EVs and Black Shadows. since its front loaded, it will be a little bit brighter but i think front loaded cabs pop more than rear loaded cabs which are a little darker. In my experience the big part of your "tone" is the cab.

Are you talking about this cabinet?

That looks my old vertical 2x12 with the open back top - it's a good cab and has served me well for the past 20(!) years - but I just bought a minty 2x12 vertical rectifier version off of AdmiralB - and the new all closed back Recto cab with C90s trounces my old cab in terms of punch, and tight lows. I'd say go with the half open back if you lean to a brighter sound - the closed back if darker and more focused is what you're after. Mind you, the new closed back still has plenty of presence.

 

[jdurso]

roaster the new ones are rear loaded correct? i was suggesting the older halfbacks because they're front loaded and the bottom enclosure is ported (at least on the 2x12s). I've owned a mesa halfback twice and the one thing i loved about it was how well it cut. I've owned one with 4 Black Shadows and another with 2 Black Shadows and 2 eminence 50s. The latter cut the best but i felt i the former was more my tone. For lead/solo guys i think they might be the best mesa cab out there... hell they were designed around the Mark IV so that shouldnt be suprising.

 

[Roaster]

roaster the new ones are rear loaded correct? i was suggesting the older halfbacks because they're front loaded and the bottom enclosure is ported (at least on the 2x12s). I've owned a mesa halfback twice and the one thing i loved about it was how well it cut. I've owned one with 4 Black Shadows and another with 2 Black Shadows and 2 eminence 50s. The latter cut the best but i felt i the former was more my tone. For lead/solo guys i think they might be the best mesa cab out there... hell they were designed around the Mark IV so that shouldnt be suprising.

I believe the recto version is rear loaded - however! - check out this FAQ I read yesterday from the Freda site:

Q: How are your speakers loaded, front or rear? And does this make a difference?
A: Our speakers are front loaded. Simply loosen the 4 screws on the grill cloth frame, take it off, and speakers easily drop in and out of place. Design of a cabinet and speaker choice effects your tone, front or rear loaded does not. Much attention seems to be given to this subject, but there may be some confusion here. You've probably tried different cabinets, one front and one rear loaded and they sounded different, so you came to the conclusion that how the speakers were mounted has something to do with that. What was really effecting the tonal difference was the cabinet dimensions, type of wood, and type of speaker. If you've tried a front-loaded cab in the past and didn't like the way it sounded, it was the cab, not the way the speakers were loaded!

 

[jdurso]

roaster the new ones are rear loaded correct? i was suggesting the older halfbacks because they're front loaded and the bottom enclosure is ported (at least on the 2x12s). I've owned a mesa halfback twice and the one thing i loved about it was how well it cut. I've owned one with 4 Black Shadows and another with 2 Black Shadows and 2 eminence 50s. The latter cut the best but i felt i the former was more my tone. For lead/solo guys i think they might be the best mesa cab out there... hell they were designed around the Mark IV so that shouldnt be suprising.

I believe the recto version is rear loaded - however! - check out this FAQ I read yesterday from the Freda site:

Q: How are your speakers loaded, front or rear? And does this make a difference?
A: Our speakers are front loaded. Simply loosen the 4 screws on the grill cloth frame, take it off, and speakers easily drop in and out of place. Design of a cabinet and speaker choice effects your tone, front or rear loaded does not. Much attention seems to be given to this subject, but there may be some confusion here. You've probably tried different cabinets, one front and one rear loaded and they sounded different, so you came to the conclusion that how the speakers were mounted has something to do with that. What was really effecting the tonal difference was the cabinet dimensions, type of wood, and type of speaker. If you've tried a front-loaded cab in the past and didn't like the way it sounded, it was the cab, not the way the speakers were loaded!

yeah i've read that but i've also heard the same cab side by side one rear loaded and the other front load, same speakers same amp same cables same guitar... I a/b'd them for about 30 minutes and there was a pretty big difference to my ears. One sounds more thin yet aggressive (front loaded) and the other had more depth and was a little darker with a bigger bottom end (rear loaded). This rear vs front loaded stuff has been discussed endlessly on almost every guitar forum i've looked and some believe the science of it (which is what you post has) and other believe their ears. Same arguement can be said for Power tubes... unless you drive them to the point of clipping you shouldnt hear the difference between 2 different power tubes int he same amp. Yet many of ou do ... so i dont know. i just know what my ears have experienced and that is the front loaded cabs sound different than the rear loaded ones.

 

[DS-1]

If your already using both then i still think you might want to look at a different cab... maybe something like a mesa halfback with EVs and Black Shadows. since its front loaded, it will be a little bit brighter but i think front loaded cabs pop more than rear loaded cabs which are a little darker. In my experience the big part of your "tone" is the cab.

Are you talking about this cabinet?

That looks my old vertical 2x12 with the open back top - it's a good cab and has served me well for the past 20(!) years - but I just bought a minty 2x12 vertical rectifier version off of AdmiralB - and the new all closed back Recto cab with C90s trounces my old cab in terms of punch, and tight lows. I'd say go with the half open back if you lean to a brighter sound - the closed back if darker and more focused is what you're after. Mind you, the new closed back still has plenty of presence.

Can this cabinet fit a Triple Rectifier? Is it big enough?

 

[cjae]

Just wanted to give you an update.

I pulled the JJ tubes from V1,V2 and V3 and put a mesa in V1 and V3 and a JJ in V2. I also swapped the 6l6s for KT77s and jesus christ. I think its the first time I don't have to turn the mids past 1 o'clock. I have never been happier with my roadster and it def has that punch and sits really nicely in the mix. The KT77s did not change the loose bottom end so people who are hoping for that..well... :roll: it's still a recto. however, it added a crap load of mids and I no longer get lost in the mix. i cannot wait for my Tungsol Reissue and Penta preamp tubes from dougs!

I'll give another update on later this week when it comes.

I seriously think every roadster owner should try out KT77s. it's not just hype.

 

[DS-1]

Just wanted to give you an update.

I pulled the JJ tubes from V1,V2 and V3 and put a mesa in V1 and V3 and a JJ in V2. I also swapped the 6l6s for KT77s and jesus christ. I think its the first time I don't have to turn the mids past 1 o'clock. I have never been happier with my roadster and it def has that punch and sits really nicely in the mix. The KT77s did not change the loose bottom end so people who are hoping for that..well... :roll: it's still a recto. however, it added a crap load of mids and I no longer get lost in the mix. i cannot wait for my Tungsol Reissue and Penta preamp tubes from dougs!

I'll give another update on later this week when it comes.

I seriously think every roadster owner should try out KT77s. it's not just hype.

What brand of KT77 have you tried? Do you run with the switch on EL34 setting?

 

[jdurso]

Just wanted to give you an update.

I pulled the JJ tubes from V1,V2 and V3 and put a mesa in V1 and V3 and a JJ in V2. I also swapped the 6l6s for KT77s and jesus christ. I think its the first time I don't have to turn the mids past 1 o'clock. I have never been happier with my roadster and it def has that punch and sits really nicely in the mix. The KT77s did not change the loose bottom end so people who are hoping for that..well... :roll: it's still a recto. however, it added a crap load of mids and I no longer get lost in the mix. i cannot wait for my Tungsol Reissue and Penta preamp tubes from dougs!

I'll give another update on later this week when it comes.

I seriously think every roadster owner should try out KT77s. it's not just hype.

the loose bottom is probably more in your settings. the rectos do have a lot of bass on tap but dialed in right even with 6l6s you can tighten it up. I think the KT77s actually do help the bottom in that theres not as much as you'd have with 6l6s. Also having more mids might be more from the preamp tube changes than the KT77s alone. Glad you finally got what your looking for because a tube swap is definitely the easiest solution.

 

[cjae]

I'm currently using JJ KT77s and running them with the bias switch in the EL34 position.

 

[DS-1]

I'm currently using JJ KT77s and running them with the bias switch in the EL34 position.

And what are the preamp tubes did you used? Can you identify on this page: http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/index.php/cat/c305_12AX7---ECC83---5751.html ? I'm doing all these questions because I have the same problem you had, so sorry if I'm boring you, but it's very important for me!

 

[cjae]

V1-mesa russian 2
V2-high gain JJ
V3-mesa russian 2
V4,V5. V6 - JJ tubes

Power tubes - JJ KT77

I'm waiting on a Tungsol Reissue for V1 and Penta for V3 to see what happens.

I'm also using a 10band eq to fine tune the sound.

 

[coppa]

had similar experience with el34s any of the bass that the tube is missng you can now dial in more with the bass knob

 

[DS-1]

V1-mesa russian 2
V2-high gain JJ
V3-mesa russian 2
V4,V5. V6 - JJ tubes

Power tubes - JJ KT77

I'm waiting on a Tungsol Reissue for V1 and Penta for V3 to see what happens.

I'm also using a 10band eq to fine tune the sound.

Ok! Let me know how the Tungsol and the Penta will work, if better or the same as now!