Interesting findings

[gezza]

Hey Guys,
Man some of you guys are quiet in here.
I had a chance to do a lot more experimenting today.
I had a good play with my GT8 and the 5:25 and I've come to the conclusion that don't like each other.
I tried the GT8 into the amps input, the delay sounds weird, because it's now before the amp, but the distortion does sound better. More dynamic.
I tried the GT8 with my normal set up, 4CM. Now the delay sounds better, as I have it after the amp in the effects chain, but the distortion sounds weak, ok not great. I am of course talking about the GT8 distortion, not the boogie's. The clean channel seems to be now lacking and just sounds like **** to be honest.
But this is definitely usable, and tweak-able.
Now if I go and buy lots of pedals, I would be in the same boat, right.
Due to the fact the Clean Channel is set different to the Burn channel, I would need to have different settings for each channel to use a pedal.

Looking for some help here, can anyone help with how they run their amp??

I am happy to buy pedals, but I don't want to waste all the money to find the same thing with my GT8.
So please let me know how you achieve your different tones.
I was looking for the following,
Clean tones using the Amp, mild distortion, heavy distortion.
Heavy tones using the Amp, mild boost, heavy boost.

Then of course, all the other effects. I don't use a lot, except.
Delay, Wah, Volume, maybe a compressor. that's it.

Looking forward to your Ideas and help,

Thanks,

Gezza.

 

[lerxst88]

I have a GT-5 that will be traded off soon because it just sucked up alot of tone using the 4CM. I also found that if you start with just a guitar cable and amp then you get to find out what effects you really really want and what you dont need. for me im down to a phase 90 and a wah

if you need a delay look at a higher quality one. ive heard TC electronic's stuff is good. either that or the serial FX loop mod helps a bit!

 

[boswell]

Why even try running an amp modeller through a 5:25???

 

[gezza]

Hey Guys,

For the effects of course.

I have used the GT8 for 3 years, Marshall, Boogie, ENGL, so on.

You get a lot of control, plus lots of effects.

Plus the effects loop is movable anywhere in the effects chain, that was the main reason for getting it.

I have never use the amps simulator on any of my amps.

So back to running this puppy, why is the effects loop ave, compared to all the other amps I have owned.

The Marshall, had two effects loops, switchable from serial to parallel.

Need help to make my amp shine.

Thanks,

Gezza.

 

[a2dconverter]

Try This..

When I had my GT-8 I got the best results by connecting the GT-8 output to the Power amp in of my modified JCM800

For the 5:25, connect the GT-8 output to the Effects Return of the 5:25.

When you do this, you use the GT-8 as the preamp and warm-it-up with the 5:25 Power Stage.

All of the effects sounded "right" this way without killing your tone with 4 extra cables (4CM)

seeya

Joe

 

[Pete Sklaroff]

Hi,

I have a Boogie Express 5:50 2x12 and use a variety of pedals with it.

Generally speaking any gain type effects (compressor, overdrive or distortion) sound way better being plugged into the front of the amp and effects which are time-delay type (chorus, delay etc) work much better after the preamp (i.e. in the effects loop)

The effects loop on the Express models isn't particularly hi-tech (it's very fussy about what you place in the loop) and doesn't have a level control for precise matching with every unit on the market. This may be causing your tone issues.

I'm not suggesting you change your effects but I've had much better results with just about any tube amp by getting single pedals to do one thing at a time and if necessary using a switching unit to change them in and out of your signal path. This can work really well.

Peter

 

[Newysurfer]

Hey Guys,
Man some of you guys are quiet in here.
I had a chance to do a lot more experimenting today.
I had a good play with my GT8 and the 5:25 and I've come to the conclusion that don't like each other.
I tried the GT8 into the amps input, the delay sounds weird, because it's now before the amp, but the distortion does sound better. More dynamic.
I tried the GT8 with my normal set up, 4CM. Now the delay sounds better, as I have it after the amp in the effects chain, but the distortion sounds weak, ok not great. I am of course talking about the GT8 distortion, not the boogie's. The clean channel seems to be now lacking and just sounds like sh!t to be honest.
But this is definitely usable, and tweak-able.
Now if I go and buy lots of pedals, I would be in the same boat, right.
Due to the fact the Clean Channel is set different to the Burn channel, I would need to have different settings for each channel to use a pedal.

Looking for some help here, can anyone help with how they run their amp??

I am happy to buy pedals, but I don't want to waste all the money to find the same thing with my GT8.
So please let me know how you achieve your different tones.
I was looking for the following,
Clean tones using the Amp, mild distortion, heavy distortion.
Heavy tones using the Amp, mild boost, heavy boost.

Then of course, all the other effects. I don't use a lot, except.
Delay, Wah, Volume, maybe a compressor. that's it.

Looking forward to your Ideas and help,

Thanks,

Gezza.

Gezza - I've got a 5:50 but have played the 5:25 several times so my comments are equally applicable to both Express amps.

I've had a Gt-8 for a few years and have totally brain drained the BossGTCentral forum to get it sounding as good as it can. Plus I have a Harmonic Converger to go with it that greatly improves the tone of the GT-8. I've had it running thru a Marshall JCM800 and a JC-120 before I got my Express. Also have a top of the line analog pedal board.

After lots of experimentation & giggin with both digital and anlalog rigs thru different amps my Gt-8 was consigned for use soley as a back-up effects unit over a year ago. IMO none of these cheap swiss army knife MFX's can compare in tone quality with any good tube amp and analog pedal board. Running the GT-8's preamps into the 5:50 is like mixing Coke into Bollinger IMHO. You can improve the Gt-8's tone by tweaking your patches to specifically suit the 5:50, trying different output modes (I use lines/phones out) etc etc. You can spend 100's of hours doing that if you want and it'll sound better - but it'll always sound rubbish compared to any Mesa amp. So why bother.

Just ditch the GT's preamps completely, put the GT into manual mode and use it purely as an effects unit.

Now as an effects unit it's just ok IMHO. With the GT's you have to run it in 4cm to get your time based effects after the amps preamp PLUS both the Wah and the Reverb in the Gt's are unusable to me. You can use the 5:50's Reverb so no prob there but I have to use a Bad Horsie 2 wah pedal up front instead of the GT's. THe quality of effects in my analog board are better so that's my first choice every time. The Gt-8 makes a decent back-up though. The only advantage of these cheap MFX's is versatility and low cost. You get that at the cost of reduced tone quality.

Having bucketed on the Boss GT's I also think the GT-8 & Gt-10 are the best of the cheap MFX range and crap on the Line 6 POD's, Digitech and Tonelab units.

So I've gone back to full analog pedals. Then the choice of pedals becomes critical. If you have a pedal board full of Boss pedals then it won't sound any better than the GT's and you'll have tone suck issues. But if you buy top of the line True bypass, and great quality bufferred pedals, it'll sound much better. Then you'll be mixing Bollinger with Bollinger.

This is what I got after 12 months of research and experimentation. The Crunchbox distortion pedal is fantastic and delivers classic Marshall JCM tones that Mesa's can't do. The Maxon Tubescreamer is an Analogman mod'ed TS-808 and the Crazy Horse is a great fuzz pedal that also delivers authentic Neil Young tones. The top row of pedals are in the 5:50's loop. The blue one there is an Analogman Chorus pedal that does a great Leslie too. The quality of these pedals are far superior to any any of the MFX's except the Axe-FX.

With this pedal board I got everything required for 95% of rock & blues players in 95% of bands. If you play in a varied cover band you might need more options and then the cheap MFX's become more viable. But this rig gives me Mesa cleans, reverb, OD and distortion, plus Wah, Marshall JCM distortion (Crunchbox), classic Tubescreamer tones, high gain fuzz, a true bypass tuner, Volume pedal, Noise Gate, Chorus/Lesley, programmable delay, EQ and clean boosting providing almost any tone I want. The Maxon tube screamer is a great distortion booster and the MXR EQ is one the best clean boosters you can get for solo's.

This rig is also plug and play. The Mesa Express and the Lonestar are the most pedal friendly amps I've ever seen. Just plug these pedals in a let rip. It's impossible to get a bad tone from this rig. If you wanna hear how it sounds click on my Soundclick link below. There's over 30 recordings there using 5 different guitars - both humbuckers & single coil PUP's.

The only pedal I bought in Aust was the Crunchbox - MI Audio are an Aussie company so it only costs $A100 here. Every other pedal I bought on the net from the US. Some were used. Saved myself over $1000 doing that

 

[bobby wasabi]

I have a 5:25 head into a 1x12 widebody.

Out front: Planet Waves tuner, MXR Dyna Comp, Digitech Synth Wah (hooked it into a single bypass looper), Morley volume, Boss BD-2

In loop: MXR Carbon Copy

I've got one of these on order from Loopmaster:

http://www.loop-master.com/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=157

In loop 1, I'm going to run a boost/overdrive (to slam the amp) and a noise suppressor. Loop 1 will be active when I switch to the burn channel. In loop 2, I'll add a boost/overdrive for mild dirt in the clean channel. Loop 2 will be active when I switch to the clean channel. I'll run the channel out of this loopmaster pedal to the channel in toggle on the back of the amp. One stomp will change the channels and add different pedals to each channel of the 5:25.

I used a Digitech RP-10 for years in my Subway Rocket effects loop. I finally got tired of the tone sucking and went back to pedals.

 

[gezza]

Hi All,
Thanks very much for the feedback, keep it coming guys.
It really is great stuff.

Hey Newysurfer,

Can I ask, if you have different pedals for each channel.

I am thinking that Channel one will sound completely different to channel 2. As they are voiced different and the eq's are both very different. So I would need some boosts and distortions for CH1 and then some for CH2.

Did you find this??

I also think at a cranked volume, playing live, you may not hear the difference between true-bypass, as it normally sounds like a washing machine. Recording you would hear, it for sure. But live not so sure.

So part of me thinks, that pedals can be a waste of time, money and effort.
As digital M-FX Boards are more reliable, leads never break, pots and knobs always work and the most important one you have your back up in case the amp dies. Then part me of thinks, I want to get the best tone possible.

I have seen so many Pedal boards, and many guys end up with 10 - 12 pedals, then they get into switching A and Switching B. So they have 2 different channels on they're pedal board.

I have worked out that I would need the following,

Tuner, Volume, Wah, Compressor, Overdirve/Distortion for Ch1 mild Distortion, Heavy for solo's, Overdrive/Boost for Channel 2, Delay. Then I need a pedal board, then I need all the cable, then I need a power supply.

So that's 8 Pedals min perhaps 9. So in Australia each true bypass pedal is approx $200.00 ea, so we are up to $1600.00 not including the extras.

Is it worth spending that much??? Are the results going to be worth it??

I play live with another Guitar player, I also have sequenced music through the fold-back as well as our vocals. At times due to the room size or our location in the room, everything sound like ****. Then there are times I think wow, that sounds really awesome.

Any help??

Thanks,

Gezza.

 

[Newysurfer]

Hi All,
Thanks very much for the feedback, keep it coming guys.
It really is great stuff.

Hey Newysurfer,

Can I ask, if you have different pedals for each channel.

Answer - No. 90% of the time I run pedals into clean amp channels. Very ocasionally for selected solo's I'll boost the amps burn channel with the Maxon Tubescreamer or the MXR EQ pedal.

I am thinking that Channel one will sound completely different to channel 2. As they are voiced different and the eq's are both very different. So I would need some boosts and distortions for CH1 and then some for CH2.

Answer - boosting OD amp channels with a pedal can be done without changing settings for different channels. I usually keep the gain low-ish and the volume high-ish on the pedal. I'm not a fan of stacking distortion pedals into dirty channels of amps or other OD pedals. Creates mud most of the time IMO. If I want more gain I just get a pedal with more. The Crunchbox has a ton of gain. Mostly I run OD and distortion into clean amp channels or I'll just use the amps dirt channel with some EQ boost

Did you find this??

I also think at a cranked volume, playing live, you may not hear the difference between true-bypass, as it normally sounds like a washing machine. Recording you would hear, it for sure. But live not so sure.

So part of me thinks, that pedals can be a waste of time, money and effort.

Answer - can't agree with you there. What's the point of paying big $$$ for a great tube amp if you stick tone sucking pedals into it that degrade the amps tone when the pedals are turned off. You're just wasting your money on the amp IMO. What sounds like a washing machine ??? - don't know what you mean. As for whether you'll hear the difference live well it depends on the venue, how crowded it is, the acoustics etc. All things being equal the punters don't notice much of anything but I do. And so will other musos listening with a good ear. If it didn't make any difference to have any picece of gear that sounds better then we'd all be playing 10w SS amps. Your rig will only sound as good as it's weakest link.

As digital M-FX Boards are more reliable, leads never break, pots and knobs always work and the most important one you have your back up in case the amp dies. Then part me of thinks, I want to get the best tone possible.

Answer - the Boss GT's are reliable but the Line 6 one's aren't. In fact the POD X3 is a total lemon. I've never had major problems with a small analog pedal board. THe bigger you make it though the more you increase your breakdown risk. The GT's are a good backup unit for that reason but the trade-off is loss of tone quality. Take your pick which is more improtant to you. For me it's tone quality.

I have seen so many Pedal boards, and many guys end up with 10 - 12 pedals, then they get into switching A and Switching B. So they have 2 different channels on they're pedal board.

Answer - yeah some guys do that but I never bothered with it. Just another option.

I have worked out that I would need the following,

Tuner, Volume, Wah, Compressor, Overdirve/Distortion for Ch1 mild Distortion, Heavy for solo's, Overdrive/Boost for Channel 2, Delay. Then I need a pedal board, then I need all the cable, then I need a power supply.

Answer - I don't think you need 2 different pedals for OD/distortion on 2 amp channels. 1 good pedal will do both jobs no prob's. And why do you need a compressor. I just eliminated 2 pedals for ya

So that's 8 Pedals min perhaps 9. So in Australia each true bypass pedal is approx $200.00 ea, so we are up to $1600.00 not including the extras.

Answer - like I said. Don't buy any pedals in Australia except MI Audio one's - unless you enjoy being ripped off.
I've bought everything on Ebay from the US - pedals cost $15-20 to ship and cost 30% of what you pay here. Cheaper if you buy 2nd hand. I just saved you $800

Is it worth spending that much??? Are the results going to be worth it??

Answer - everyone's choice. For me it was worth every cent. IMO using a cheap MFX is literally mixing Coke into Bollinger. What's the point of buying a Mesa if you ruin it with crap effects and MFX preamps. Same goes for poor tone sucking analog pedals. If you buy the best pedals then it makes a huge difference. A lot of the best pedals are not the most expensive one's but it takes a fair bit of research and testing to find out which are the great one's and which are the duds. But if you fill up an analog pedal board with Boss pedals it won't sound any better than the Gt-8. So you're wasting your money if you do that too IMO.

I play live with another Guitar player, I also have sequenced music through the fold-back as well as our vocals. At times due to the room size or our location in the room, everything sound like sh!t. Then there are times I think wow, that sounds really awesome.

Any help??

Thanks,

Gezza.

 

[gezza]

Hey Guys,

I big thanks for all the reply's. Great information.

Ok, so pedals it is!!!!!!!!!!

Now which bloody ones -OMFG, I have never seen so many.

Here's pretty much what I am have in mind, but could go a couple of ways.

Budda - Wah, Korg Black pitch tuner, Compessor??, Clean Boost or Eq, Crunch Box or Black Star HT- Dual, 808 Clone, Delay.

Now I have done a lot of reading and many say, get a boost for the signal, even though all the pedals are T/Bypass.

So not sure about a Volume pedal as all I see are bad reviews.

Also not sure about a compressor, but the Barber Tone press looks like what I want, if I wanted one.

Again a clean boost or Eq, I can see advantages in both.

and Finally I really like what I hear from the IM-Audio Crunch Box or the black star HT - Dual, which has a clean or crunch and then a higher gain channel 2.

I was leaning towards this combo,
Tuner, Budda-Wah, compressor?, Eq for boosting solo's, then clean Boost, then a small channel changer pedal not connected to the effects pedal, Crunch box for channel one and the 808 clone for channel 2, then the Delay in the loop. I already have an ISP G String so this would be first and last. Now all these pedal are T/Bypass.

How would I connect these.
Guitar>Isp>tuner>comp>wah>crunch box>808 clone>eq>boost>to the amp's input. Then the Delay would connect to the ISP then to effects loop.

In my head on the clean channel, I hit the Crunch box for meaty tones, then to solo hit the Eq or the boost or both, then on channel 2, I have the option for the 808 clone or hit the eq or boost for solos.

Does this look right???

By the way, thanks Newysurfer, I did find an Australian effects builder at really great prices, they have Booster, TS808 clone, Delay, all true bypass, all super cheap compared to all the others.

Check em out, let me know if you have heard of them??
http://www.morrisonaudioequipment.com.


I would really appreciate your comments.

Thanks,

Gezza.

 

[Newysurfer]

Hey Guys,

I big thanks for all the reply's. Great information.

Ok, so pedals it is!!!!!!!!!!

Now which bloody ones -OMFG, I have never seen so many.

That's the critical issue - there's a zillion of em. Have never heard the Morrison so have no idea what they're like. I wouldn't buy one without fully testing it first. All the MI Audio one's are great. I've tried em all. They're not true bypass but have excellent buffers so they don't tone suck at all. Can recommend the MI Audio Blues Boy too if you want a good tubescreamer clone.

Here's pretty much what I am have in mind, but could go a couple of ways.

Budda - Wah, Korg Black pitch tuner, Compessor??, Clean Boost or Eq, Crunch Box or Black Star HT- Dual, 808 Clone, Delay.

The Budda Wah is great. I've also heard great things about the Blackstar. It's pretty exy though. Bought my Crunchbox for $100 at Billy Hydes. Takes 10 secs to dial up and will give you 1000% better quality distortion than you'll ever get out of a Boss MFX. And zero fizzzz too. One tip with the Crunchbox if you're a metal player. If you mid scoop it with either the Contour pot, or an EQ pedal, it delivers the best metal tones I've heard from a pedal. It has more than enuf gain for any metal head.

Now I have done a lot of reading and many say, get a boost for the signal, even though all the pedals are T/Bypass.

So not sure about a Volume pedal as all I see are bad reviews.

You don't need for a signal booster IMO if you use good quality buffered pedals 1st thing and then last in the chain.
From all my research on tone suck issues I found this is the solution. Good buffered pedals first (like a Wah) then mix up true bypass and buffered pedals in the middle, then buffer pedal last. My board does that and has zero tone suck, or any signal loss.

A note on buffers. Most Boss, Line 6 and el cheapo pedals have poor quality buffers that degrade tone and cause signal loss. THese are your classic tone suckers. Many of the better makers though are now inserting high quality buffers that do not effect tone at all. Examples are MXR, MI Audio, Electro Harmonix, Maxon.

Then I use the EQ pedal to boost volume for solo's and to boost mids, or switch to a mid scooped metal tone or whatever you want - a million tone options.

Most volume pedals tone suck. I found a Dunlop high gain one that doesn't. It's also passive so no power connection needed. If you're good with using the guitar vol pot you may not need a volume pedal though

Also not sure about a compressor, but the Barber Tone press looks like what I want, if I wanted one.

I've never used compressors for gigging. I'd search on http://www.thegearpage.com and see what people there recommend.

Again a clean boost or Eq, I can see advantages in both.

My MXR 5-band EQ is fantastic as a booster & tone shaper. Cost $80 on Ebay

and Finally I really like what I hear from the IM-Audio Crunch Box or the black star HT - Dual, which has a clean or crunch and then a higher gain channel 2.

I was leaning towards this combo,
Tuner, Budda-Wah, compressor?, Eq for boosting solo's, then clean Boost, then a small channel changer pedal not connected to the effects pedal, Crunch box for channel one and the 808 clone for channel 2, then the Delay in the loop. I already have an ISP G String so this would be first and last. Now all these pedal are T/Bypass.

How would I connect these.
Guitar>Isp>tuner>comp>wah>crunch box>808 clone>eq>boost>to the amp's input. Then the Delay would connect to the ISP then to effects loop.

Check out my board -
guitar plugged into the Wah on right. Amp on left.
top row is in the Loop. Bottom row is all up front.
Noise Gate in the loop is better cause it'll eat both amp & pedal noise there.
EQ in the loop acts as a total tone shaper there but many people use it up-front too.

In my head on the clean channel, I hit the Crunch box for meaty tones, then to solo hit the Eq or the boost or both, then on channel 2, I have the option for the 808 clone or hit the eq or boost for solos.

Does this look right???

By the way, thanks Newysurfer, I did find an Australian effects builder at really great prices, they have Booster, TS808 clone, Delay, all true bypass, all super cheap compared to all the others.

Check em out, let me know if you have heard of them??
http://www.morrisonaudioequipment.com.

Good to see more Aussie pedal builders and they look cheap. How do they sound though ?
Took me 12 months to build my pedal board. Researched every pedal purchase. Tested em in stores here first and then bought everything from the US (except the Crunchbox )

I would really appreciate your comments.

Thanks,

Gezza.