I'm really bummed with Mesa

[screamingdaisy]

I like the fixed bias. I can call up pretty much any dealer and tell them I need a set of tubes for a Boogie and they'll send them to me. Saves a fair bit of headache.

 

[JOEY B.]

There is no more Sylvania and the tube manufacturers these days do not seem capable or willing to produce tubes of this calibur. How many sets of JJ's or -C-'s or STR-440's would it take to get the service hours of one set of STR 415's?

This is the main reason that the SED Winged =C= 6L6's and EL-34's are my "emergency backups". I had some major issues with the STR-440's that may or may not have been an internal issue with my amp. The Sylvanias have not had any issues in the C+ at very high volumes for extended durations. Quality over quantity, any day of the week. 8)

 

[dgr888]

Most players do not have a lot of cash to be throwing at tubes or have a $300.00 set sitting on a shelf for their next million dollar cd. If they could rebias these amps they can run lesser expensive tubes with just as good results in sound and reliability. The lower priced Sovtek WXT's need a hotter bias to run properly and with the bias in the Boogie's they run too cold and sound like crap. Other tubes require a colder bias than what you get and therefore burn up. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference in reliability and sound with properly biased cheap WXT's and Sylvania's. As I've said it's just marketing to sell high priced tubes to the unknowing players which is a shame.... Other tubes do have the reliability and sound of "Sylvania"s" it's just M*** B***** does not give you the option of using the other's by not giving you a user friendly bias in their amps... It's all about money.. their money...

 

[Monsta-Tone]

It is a shame what they are ripping people off for tubes these days. And not being able to rebias these for other tubes makes the players have to go back to them to get theirs. Guess what? The pot they could install costs about $2.00 so you or your tech could bias it for any brand tube you want. They can give any bull**** reason as to why they don't install a pot but the only reason is to sell you overpriced tubes!!!! While I am at it the so called "Matched Tubes" Are also a marketing ploy and B.S. to get more cash out of players. Matching tubes does nothing because there is already inherent mismatches in the output transformer. One side of the output transformer always draws more current through the the tubes because the winding are not actually equal. So even with so called "Matched Tubes"$$$$ you get nothing but ripped. Inherent mismatches in tubes actually provide a richer better sounding harmonic structure believe it or not.............

I'm gonna agree with part of this.
I think it's bullshit that they only want you to use their tubes, but the prices on their tubes is way too high.
That may be the only reason that they started doing this, but I have had many customers that rely on this and simply use another tube supplier that will sell them a set of tubes that fit better in a Mesa amp.

Yes, there are mismatches in every amp.
But.....if you have a set of tubes that is maybe 2 milliamps off, it will sound much better to my ears than a set that is 10-15 ma off!

I don't buy the "Matched Triode" crap for Phase Inverters, but I have seen many times that a matched set of power tubes will make any amp sing. :mrgreen: Unless, that is, you have a separate bias pot for every tube! :mrgreen:



As for Simul-Class amps.....simply bias the "Fixed Bias" tubes and leave the Cathode (so-called "Class A") sockets alone!

 

[dgr888]

Obviously if you have a set of tubes that have a 10-15 ma. difference between them there is a problem and you send them back. And as for" simply biasing" the 6l6's, if you need a higher or lower bias to make them run properly the way the simulclass bias circuit is set up it throws the bias on the 34's way off. These amps need two separate bias supplies to make them run properly. With the addition of a couple of caps and pots this could have been easily accomplished when they designed them. Now players are stuck with less optimum sound and reliability because of them being cheap with their expensive amps. With a bias supply for each set you could run cheap or expensive tubes at their correct bias points for reliability and sound. Most of these amps sound stifled with no "singing" qualities at all because of this biasing scheme. This bad design insures they will fill the coffers with the players money.....

 

[screamingdaisy]

Obviously if you have a set of tubes that have a 10-15 ma. difference between them there is a problem and you send them back. And as for" simply biasing" the 6l6's, if you need a higher or lower bias to make them run properly the way the simulclass bias circuit is set up it throws the bias on the 34's way off. These amps need two separate bias supplies to make them run properly. With the addition of a couple of caps and pots this could have been easily accomplished when they designed them. Now players are stuck with less optimum sound and reliability because of them being cheap with their expensive amps. With a bias supply for each set you could run cheap or expensive tubes at their correct bias points for reliability and sound. Most of these amps sound stifled with no "singing" qualities at all because of this biasing scheme. This bad design insures they will fill the coffers with the players money.....

Do you honestly believe that Mesa didn't install bias pots because of cost? That's perhaps one of the silliest things I've read on this forum...

Yeah, their tube scheme is a money maker. Big deal. Lots of musicians aren't exactly technically orientated and the fixed bias scheme does provide more consistant results than the old "just stick some tubes in there and don't bother biasing anything" scheme most musicians use.

On the positive side Mesa's scheme provides both convinience and peace of mind. It also means not loosing your amp for a week or two waiting for an amp tech to get around to biasing it for you, something that may be important for a touring musician on the road.

Long story short, you can call it a bad design all you want, but plenty of people actually like it.

 

[JOEY B.]

Do you honestly believe that Mesa didn't install bias pots because of cost? That's perhaps one of the silliest things I've read on this forum...

I think it was an attempt to reduce warranty claims, if nothing else.

 

[Restless Rocks]

[

Do you honestly believe that Mesa didn't install bias pots because of cost? That's perhaps one of the silliest things I've read on this forum...

Yeah, their tube scheme is a money maker. Big deal. Lots of musicians aren't exactly technically orientated and the fixed bias scheme does provide more consistant results than the old "just stick some tubes in there and don't bother biasing anything" scheme most musicians use.

On the positive side Mesa's scheme provides both convinience and peace of mind. It also means not loosing your amp for a week or two waiting for an amp tech to get around to biasing it for you, something that may be important for a touring musician on the road.

Long story short, you can call it a bad design all you want, but plenty of people actually like it.[/quote]

There you have it: in the words of a satisfied customer. From a different perspective it could be said that it's us repair techs who do all the screaming about Mesa's use of non-adjustable bias just because we want more amp biasing business. How about all the unncecessay "Cap Job's" that get done because of esoteric bickering amongst technical "geniuses".
The truth, like Screamingdaisy says is that most guitar players, especially on the road, haven't the knowledge, tools or desire to fool with esoterics of biasing. Especially in the sonic environment on stage of most of todays metal bands who the hell can tell (with their ears alone) if a set of output tubes is a few milliamps off the "optimum" bias?