I think I've bought the wrong amp help please!

[paulg2uk]

Hey guys

I think I might have done a stupid thing. I managed to sell my mark v over the weekend and a friend of mine was luckily selling his dual rec reborn which was new and only a few months old he had to sell as he needed the cash. To cut a long story short I bought it. I couldn’t resist a deal lol. I did try it before I bought it and was quite impressed until I hooked it up to my rig at home. I’ve been playing about with it the last few days and find that its just too fizzy sounding on the high gain channels. I thought it might be the tubes but after talking to boogie they seem to think the fizzy/sizzling sound is normal.

I think I might have bought the wrong amp. I remember owning a road king 2 a few years back and that was an excellent amp more the classic recto tone I’ve come back to. I just wanted to ask everyone's thoughts on this? I'm prepared to trade the dual rec in for either a road king 2 or roadster as i think they will be more suited to my ears and more versitile.

I feel a bit stupid it was an impulse buy what can I say I don't usually rush into things like this but there you go lol.

Many thanks

Paul

 

[TheArriaga88]

What kind of music do you play?

Do you need all the extras the road king has? if not id just go with the roadster

Ive heard alot about the reborn dual recs being overly fizzy, i myself have one of the 3channel pre-reborn and its a little fizzy but manageable, ive also read that you can bias mod it and set it a little hotter to take away some of the fizz
Cheers :mrgreen:

 

[Dr.G]

Rectifiers are very well known for their sometimes fizzy sound, and there are a lot of threads dealing with this topic and how to tame this. The most important thing is, play the amp loud so that the power amp section has to work harder (rectifiers sound like **** at bedroom volumes). this really helps! And Keep the gain lower (at about 12-1:30 o'clock). Get familiar with the amp and how to eq it before you consider to sell it. play as well with the presence to get rid of some of the fizz.
Some of the fizz and ice pick characteristics are related to the low bias of the mesa boogie stock tubes in the poweramp section (at least this is what most people think). you can increase the bias by setting the amp on "bold" and Silicon Diode rectification.
Other approaches related to the low bias would be buying tubes that run hotter from the beginning. There are a lot of vendors that sell tubes especially selected for rectos. Try as well other preamp tubes, start with V1, as this one has the most impact on the tone, or try a sovtek LPS in the PI stage (some like them).
Keep in mind that the power transformer as well as the Speakers (if the cab is new) need some burn in time and will loose some of the harshness.
As already mentioned, there are a lot of threads dealing with this topic, so do some research.

I don't have many experience with Mark amps, but as far as I know they are less fizzy than Rectos. The question is how far you can tame the fizz to get happy with the DR. At least learning to EQ it won't cost you any money.

Good luck

 

[paulg2uk]

What kind of music do you play?

Do you need all the extras the road king has? if not id just go with the roadster

Ive heard alot about the reborn dual recs being overly fizzy, i myself have one of the 3channel pre-reborn and its a little fizzy but manageable, ive also read that you can bias mod it and set it a little hotter to take away some of the fizz
Cheers :mrgreen:

Thanks for the response guys. I play a variety of different music. I'm in a covers band and do anything from the 50's to modern day material. I like my Metallica sounds but I also like blues classic rock, hard rock a bit of funk. It's hard to list everything but a great variety of tones would be good. I've had a road king 2 before and that didn't sound fizzy one bit just a great classic recto sound.

The roadster I've heard is also good I've never tried that. I thought it was just a road king without the progressive leakage function? Selling my mark v was one of the reasons I wanted to go back to the classic recto sound.

I did think about changing tubes but is it worth me spending more cash. I'd rather just buy the amp I know is gonna work for me. I'll check out some more posts on the dual rec fizziness and see what I come up with. I think I've mad my mind up though.

Thanks again

Paul

 

[Heritage Softail]

I would lead toward a different amp. The MKV can cover all the nice Rectifier tones with one pedal. D a search for Wampler Triple Wreck. Monster pedal. I have a rectifier and use that pedal with little combo amps when I go to little jam sessions when I want some versatility.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yes, the recto is what it is. It has this sizzle, crunch, and complexity to the tone which is really cool. It just seems to irritate many people but for some reason, it sounds so huge and rad when recorded. Sounds to me like it's not your thing though, so find something else.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

I don't find rectifiers fizzy at all unless setup to be.
Have you worked with the vintage mode much?
Orange channel has less presence than the red.

Often, especially with EMG81 and very-high-gain passives running through O.D. and booster pedals, I end up rolling the amp's tone knobs down from noon, rather than up from noon like you do with most amps.
A good fizz-killing metal tone (Orange channel modern) is to set the treble knob at 10:00-11:00, the mids between 9:00-10:00 then adjust the bass and presence to taste.
Modern modes are really setup to have good sizzle and an expansive huge bass on tap if you want to use them, but they can be tamed down.

Also, you could maybe just try a lower-gain preamp tube in V1.

 

[paulg2uk]

I don't find rectifiers fizzy at all unless setup to be.
Have you worked with the vintage mode much?
Orange channel has less presence than the red.

Often, especially with EMG81 and very-high-gain passives running through O.D. and booster pedals, I end up rolling the amp's tone knobs down from noon, rather than up from noon like you do with most amps.
A good fizz-killing metal tone (Orange channel modern) is to set the treble knob at 10:00-11:00, the mids between 9:00-10:00 then adjust the bass and presence to taste.
Modern modes are really setup to have good sizzle and an expansive huge bass on tap if you want to use them, but they can be tamed down.

Also, you could maybe just try a lower-gain preamp tube in V1.

Here's what I find when using the dual rec chan 3 I'm using for my high gain sound chan 2 for my slighty overdriven sound. Both set to vintage. I have 2 guitars I use for the band a Kossoff gibson les paul collectors choice fairly bright sounding. i also use a PRS P22 Trem. I find when I've dialled in my tone on the les paul which I still find fairly fizzy i then try with the PRS and this can sound quite dark sounding with the same settings. This can be quite noticeable on the clean channel. I never used to get this from the mark v both guitars would sound really good without changing any settings. Maybe i've got a custom to the mark v sound without even knowing it?

This all started when I got my rectoverb 25 head. I love chan 2 in that amp it sounds well like a recto without the high end fizz. I thought to myself I'll need to get a more powerful amp with that sound the mark v wasn't really cutting it for me anymore so I thought the dual rec was the answer. I'm clearly wrong about that. The only options I have is to spend some cash on some tubes and see if that helps or trade it in/sell it and buy the road king. I don't wanna spend lots on tubes if it isn't gonna help. May be I should just experiment with one pre amp tube at a time and see what happens its the only way I'm gonna know I suppose.

Thanks guys

Paul

 

[LesPaul70]

I remember owning a road kind 2 a few years back and that was an excellent amp

Then why did you sell it?
There's always this danger if you sell something that was 'perfect' for you...you end up buying lots and lots of different gear trying to recapture that elusive 'something' your old gear had. And you will be disappointed. Especially if your old gear was something like a Road King.
Based on what I've heard so far, I believe Reborn Rectifiers are great amps. And so are Mark Vs, I have one. But neither of them is a Road King. Their strengths are elsewhere.

Rectos, especially the 3-channel ones, are infamous for the 'fizz' issue. I have never really had that problem. But then, I only have 2-channel Duals, I play loud (with a band) and never really crank Gain, Treble or Presence. (Maybe if I did I could be complaining about the fizz problem too.)

The controls on a modern Reborn should be quite powerful. I know that I can conjure up a plethora of different sounds from a regular 2-channel Recto - some of them stellar, some of them downright bad - and I'd be surprised if the 3-channel ones were more limited in this regard. It just takes practice to find the correct combination of controls that unlocks your dream tone. The controls are more sensitive than you might realize and interact with each other in sometimes counterintuitive ways. Experiment, experiment a lot, until you get the hang of it. And of course the other links in the chain have to be strong enough, beginning with your guitar and your chops.

I currently have two Marks and two Rectos. Any one of them can give me a dream tone. Or two, or three, or more. Different dream tones from different amps. I don't have just one dream tone.
Any one of these four amps can be used for any of the songs we play (although, to be honest, with the Revision C Dual, the clean/semi-clean songs are something of a stretch, and workable only with strong support from pedals). They just sound different and behave differently, and I love them for that. I wouldn't want to part with any of them.

Of course you could sell your current 3-channel Dual, and get....what?

An old 2-channel G? or Tremoverb? (You don't hear many 2-channel Recto owners complaining about fizz.)
A Mark III? (A blue stripe is really a wannabe-Recto in Mark's clothing.)
Or just get a Road King and be done with it? (...only to discover it doesn't sound as good as you remembered it did?)

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be too hasty. Do not give up on an amp before you have fully explored its potential. The gear we are discussing here, like a 3-channel Reborn Rectifier and a Mark V, is professional-level equipment, and fully capable of producing amazing tones. I doubt that a new, different amp will be the solution to your problem. You just need to find a way to make your amp jump through the hoops you want it to. It's got all you need in it. Give it time.

 

[paulg2uk]

I remember owning a road kind 2 a few years back and that was an excellent amp

Then why did you sell it?
There's always this danger if you sell something that was 'perfect' for you...you end up buying lots and lots of different gear trying to recapture that elusive 'something' your old gear had. And you will be disappointed. Especially if your old gear was something like a Road King.
Based on what I've heard so far, I believe Reborn Rectifiers are great amps. And so are Mark Vs, I have one. But neither of them is a Road King. Their strenghts are elsewhere.

Rectos, especially the 3-channel ones, are infamous for the 'fizz' issue. I have never really had that problem. But then, I only have 2-channel Duals, I play loud (with a band) and never really crank Gain, Treble or Presence. (Maybe if I did I could be complaining about the fizz problem too.)

The controls on a modern Reborn should be quite powerful. I know that I can conjure up a plethora of different sounds from a regular 2-channel Recto - some of them stellar, some of them downright bad - and I'd be surprised if the 3-channel ones were more limited in this regard. It just takes practice to find the correct combination of controls that unlocks your dream tone. The controls are more sensitive than you might realize and interact with each other in sometimes counterintuitive ways. Experiment, experiment a lot, until you get the hang of it. And of course the other links in the chain have to be strong enough, beginning with your guitar and your chops.

I currently have two Marks and two Rectos. Any one of them can give me a dream tone. Or two, or three, or more. Different dream tones from different amps. I don't have just one dream tone.
Any one of these four amps can be used for any of the songs we play (although, to be honest, with the Revision C Dual, the clean/semi-clean songs are something of a stretch, and workable only with strong support from pedals). They just sound different and behave differently, and I love them for that. I wouldn't want to part with any of them.

Of course you could sell your current 3-channel Dual, and get....what?

An old 2-channel G? or Tremoverb? (You don't hear many 2-channel Recto owners complaining about fizz.)
A Mark III? (A blue stripe is really a wannabe-Recto in Mark's clothing.)
Or just get a Road King and be done with it? (...only to discover it doesn't sound as good as you remembered it did?)

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be too hasty. Do not give up on an amp before you have fully explored its potential. The gear we are discussing here, like a 3-channel Reborn Rectifier and a Mark V, is professional-level equipment, and fully capable of producing amazing tones. I doubt that a new, different amp will be the solution to your problem. You just need to find a way to make your amp jump through the hoops you want it to. It's got all you need in it. Give it time.

Lol why did i sell it? That's a good question. I thought i was getting something better and for 3 years the mark v was my main amp. And it did do what I wanted to do. But since playing through the rectoverb 25 its that sound I've wanted but with more wattage for the bigger gigs I play. I'm a bit pissed at myself really and I know better. What can I say I'm a guitarist lol

 

[YellowJacket]

Then the answer is obvious. Flip the Recto Reborn and get a Roadking 2 or a Roadster.

 

[paulg2uk]

Then the answer is obvious. Flip the Recto Reborn and get a Roadking 2 or a Roadster.

Thanks for the comment you're right. I've started to enquire anyway. What a surprise trade in value on the dual recs is really bad over here in the UK. I've found a road kind 2 head and I've got a good price on the dual rec and a guitar I was selling anyway. Just waiting for them to tell me how much they can do the road king head for. Maybe I can pay off what's left. We shall see.

 

[discordance_axis]

This is the classic dilemma most guitarists stumble upon at one time or another.

I too have owned a Mark V head for the past few years and have loved every second of playing through it. I always vowed to myself never to sell it, because it's been the dream tone I was searching for years to find.

However, boredom and curiosity sets in and more often than not, a change in gear is usually the result of that. I've read too many stories of tone seekers swapping amps back and forth, re-buying amp models they owned a few years back again, it goes on. The grass is always greener..

I recently bought a Road King II head basically brand new for £1500, 1 year old but with barely any hours played on it with all the goodies (controller, cables, bags, manual). Thats a pretty sweet deal here in the UK. Something I just didn't want to pass up on (as well as a bit of that curiosity kicking in). It is a different beast to the MV, but having the two side by side just clarified that the Mark V is the amp for me. The RKII is an amazing amp though and very pleasing to play, but I'd take the MV any day, but that's just me. Each to their own. I'm just glad I stuck to my own personal vows and buying the RKII has furthered my ideals to keep the Mark V forever. Regardless of whether I decide to keep the RKII or not.

The only help I can offer is advice, and my advice would be not to worry too much about it. You've not lost much money (I see amps as more of an investment since they depreciate in value very slowly, and in some cases never. Just sell privately.). Enjoy the Dual Rec for what it is. Have you played it in a band setting yet? You said you wanted it because you wanted a Rectoverb25 but with more power. Perhaps the fizz you describe is the result of that bigger power section and once you play the Dual at higher volumes you will find exactly what you are looking for.

If the worst comes to the worst you can always sell. If I were you i'd stick with the Dual Rec for now, give you ears and hands time to get used to the sound and feel. I'm sure it all works out in the end!

 

[wannabweiland]

None of my old 2 channel Dual Rectifiers were fizzy. Very clear and articulate. But the 3 channel pre reborn was almost unusable in my opinion. Cool amp though. Plenty of features, but fizzy. I really can't recommend finding an old 2 channel enough.

 

[paulg2uk]

This is the classic dilemma most guitarists stumble upon at one time or another.

I too have owned a Mark V head for the past few years and have loved every second of playing through it. I always vowed to myself never to sell it, because it's been the dream tone I was searching for years to find.

However, boredom and curiosity sets in and more often than not, a change in gear is usually the result of that. I've read too many stories of tone seekers swapping amps back and forth, re-buying amp models they owned a few years back again, it goes on. The grass is always greener..

I recently bought a Road King II head basically brand new for £1500, 1 year old but with barely any hours played on it with all the goodies (controller, cables, bags, manual). Thats a pretty sweet deal here in the UK. Something I just didn't want to pass up on (as well as a bit of that curiosity kicking in). It is a different beast to the MV, but having the two side by side just clarified that the Mark V is the amp for me. The RKII is an amazing amp though and very pleasing to play, but I'd take the MV any day, but that's just me. Each to their own. I'm just glad I stuck to my own personal vows and buying the RKII has furthered my ideals to keep the Mark V forever. Regardless of whether I decide to keep the RKII or not.

The only help I can offer is advice, and my advice would be not to worry too much about it. You've not lost much money (I see amps as more of an investment since they depreciate in value very slowly, and in some cases never. Just sell privately.). Enjoy the Dual Rec for what it is. Have you played it in a band setting yet? You said you wanted it because you wanted a Rectoverb25 but with more power. Perhaps the fizz you describe is the result of that bigger power section and once you play the Dual at higher volumes you will find exactly what you are looking for.

If the worst comes to the worst you can always sell. If I were you i'd stick with the Dual Rec for now, give you ears and hands time to get used to the sound and feel. I'm sure it all works out in the end!

That's good to hear I'm not the only guitar player out there that does this. £1500 for a road king that's a fantastic price thaye are over £3K over here in the UK. Great amp though.

I took the rectoverb 25 to rehearsal last night. We had auditions for a new singer so I couldn't really crank it up. It was only on 10 watts on chan 2 thru my wide body cab and blimey it was loud.

I managed to find a road king head I'm going to go and try it over the weekend and the mark v again. Just one thing that's putting me off of the road king is the size and weight. Usually I use a 1x12 wide body cab as some of the places we play are just too small for anything else. I then put my rack case on top of my cab and which ever heads sits on top of the rack case. The Mark v would sit nicely on top the road king however is a beast of an amp measuring 27 3/4". i asked the guys at boogie and the rubber feet measure 23.5 inches. I've only got about 20" on top of my rack case. I could move the feet but do you guys think it will look silly onto of a 1x12? Not that its a bout looks at the end of the day.

Anyone tried a 1x12 with a road king? I think it might sound a bit compressed personally. Bloody hell why did i sell my mark v bugger it lol

 

[paulg2uk]

This is the classic dilemma most guitarists stumble upon at one time or another.

I too have owned a Mark V head for the past few years and have loved every second of playing through it. I always vowed to myself never to sell it, because it's been the dream tone I was searching for years to find.

However, boredom and curiosity sets in and more often than not, a change in gear is usually the result of that. I've read too many stories of tone seekers swapping amps back and forth, re-buying amp models they owned a few years back again, it goes on. The grass is always greener..

I recently bought a Road King II head basically brand new for £1500, 1 year old but with barely any hours played on it with all the goodies (controller, cables, bags, manual). Thats a pretty sweet deal here in the UK. Something I just didn't want to pass up on (as well as a bit of that curiosity kicking in). It is a different beast to the MV, but having the two side by side just clarified that the Mark V is the amp for me. The RKII is an amazing amp though and very pleasing to play, but I'd take the MV any day, but that's just me. Each to their own. I'm just glad I stuck to my own personal vows and buying the RKII has furthered my ideals to keep the Mark V forever. Regardless of whether I decide to keep the RKII or not.

The only help I can offer is advice, and my advice would be not to worry too much about it. You've not lost much money (I see amps as more of an investment since they depreciate in value very slowly, and in some cases never. Just sell privately.). Enjoy the Dual Rec for what it is. Have you played it in a band setting yet? You said you wanted it because you wanted a Rectoverb25 but with more power. Perhaps the fizz you describe is the result of that bigger power section and once you play the Dual at higher volumes you will find exactly what you are looking for.

If the worst comes to the worst you can always sell. If I were you i'd stick with the Dual Rec for now, give you ears and hands time to get used to the sound and feel. I'm sure it all works out in the end!

That's good to hear I'm not the only guitar player out there that does this. £1500 for a road king that's a fantastic price thaye are over £3K over here in the UK. Great amp though.

I took the rectoverb 25 to rehearsal last night. We had auditions for a new singer so I couldn't really crank it up. It was only on 10 watts on chan 2 thru my wide body cab and blimey it was loud.

I managed to find a road king head I'm going to go and try it over the weekend and the mark v again. Just one thing that's putting me off of the road king is the size and weight. Usually I use a 1x12 wide body cab as some of the places we play are just too small for anything else. I then put my rack case on top of my cab and which ever heads sits on top of the rack case. The Mark v would sit nicely on top the road king however is a beast of an amp measuring 27 3/4". i asked the guys at boogie and the rubber feet measure 23.5 inches. I've only got about 20" on top of my rack case. I could move the feet but do you guys think it will look silly onto of a 1x12? Not that its a bout looks at the end of the day.

Anyone tried a 1x12 with a road king? I think it might sound a bit compressed personally. Bloody hell why did i sell my mark v bugger it lol

 

[paulg2uk]

This is the classic dilemma most guitarists stumble upon at one time or another.

I too have owned a Mark V head for the past few years and have loved every second of playing through it. I always vowed to myself never to sell it, because it's been the dream tone I was searching for years to find.

However, boredom and curiosity sets in and more often than not, a change in gear is usually the result of that. I've read too many stories of tone seekers swapping amps back and forth, re-buying amp models they owned a few years back again, it goes on. The grass is always greener..

I recently bought a Road King II head basically brand new for £1500, 1 year old but with barely any hours played on it with all the goodies (controller, cables, bags, manual). Thats a pretty sweet deal here in the UK. Something I just didn't want to pass up on (as well as a bit of that curiosity kicking in). It is a different beast to the MV, but having the two side by side just clarified that the Mark V is the amp for me. The RKII is an amazing amp though and very pleasing to play, but I'd take the MV any day, but that's just me. Each to their own. I'm just glad I stuck to my own personal vows and buying the RKII has furthered my ideals to keep the Mark V forever. Regardless of whether I decide to keep the RKII or not.

The only help I can offer is advice, and my advice would be not to worry too much about it. You've not lost much money (I see amps as more of an investment since they depreciate in value very slowly, and in some cases never. Just sell privately.). Enjoy the Dual Rec for what it is. Have you played it in a band setting yet? You said you wanted it because you wanted a Rectoverb25 but with more power. Perhaps the fizz you describe is the result of that bigger power section and once you play the Dual at higher volumes you will find exactly what you are looking for.

If the worst comes to the worst you can always sell. If I were you i'd stick with the Dual Rec for now, give you ears and hands time to get used to the sound and feel. I'm sure it all works out in the end!

That's good to hear I'm not the only guitar player out there that does this. £1500 for a road king that's a fantastic price they are over £3K over here in the UK. Great amp though.

I took the rectoverb 25 to rehearsal last night. We had auditions for a new singer so I couldn't really crank it up. It was only on 10 watts on chan 2 thru my wide body cab and blimey it was loud.

I managed to find a road king head I'm going to go and try it over the weekend and the mark v again. Just one thing that's putting me off of the road king is the size and weight. Usually I use a 1x12 wide body cab as some of the places we play are just too small for anything else. I then put my rack case on top of my cab and which ever heads sits on top of the rack case. The Mark v would sit nicely on top the road king however is a beast of an amp measuring 27 3/4". i asked the guys at boogie and the rubber feet measure 23.5 inches. I've only got about 20" on top of my rack case. I could move the feet but do you guys think it will look silly onto of a 1x12? Not that its a bout looks at the end of the day.

Anyone tried a 1x12 with a road king? I think it might sound a bit compressed personally. Bloody hell why did i sell my mark v bugger it lol

 

[chris osborne]

Unfortunately done that so many times myself and I understand your dilemma with the rectifier. Vintage mode, the right tubes, a good boost pedal, and rolling off the presence can usually tame the fizz on the rectos.

 

[chris osborne]

The Road King and Roadster I know definitely have a smoother and more liquid tone than the other rectifiers. I'm interested myself to find out just how the smoothness differs on those between the series 1 and 2.

Chris

 

[paulg2uk]

The Road King and Roadster I know definitely have a smoother and more liquid tone than the other rectifiers. I'm interested myself to find out just how the smoothness differs on those between the series 1 and 2.

Chris

I've owned both road kings and I don't think there's much difference between series 1 and 2 in smoothness. Its been some time though since I owned the the series 1. I just remember the channel volumes being less accurate on the series 1 then the series 2. I'd struggle to get a good volume it was either too loud or too soft lol.

That reminds me guys. I did it I traded in the dual rec for a road king 2. Definitely more my sound and no fizziness at all. I need to buy a 2x12 cab but it sounds pretty sweet through my 1x12. Lovin' chan 2 with the tubes set to EL34''s. Chan 4 is just full on gain I love it. I have chan 1 set to a nice pristine sound 4 x 6L6's and chan 2 for my slightly broken up sound. Great for songs like Footloose. I have chan 3 set for a more slight overdriven sound and then chan 4 for the high gain stuff. I'll definitely appreciate the tube configs more when I get my 2x12 cab.

I was quite surprised how big the road king was. Bigger than what i remember. And it weighs a ton but I don't care about that. I must say I can't decide which is better between the mark v and the road king they both have their classic sounds and a simple solution is to own both if you can. In fact I think I'm gonna buy a mark v again next year when I can afford to. To quote a forum member "I see amps as an investment" and I quite agree.