How much gain is the LSC capable of?

[lostcause]

Just a few questions.
What sort of songs and styles of music are you playing on ch2 without additional gain from a pedal?
How much gain do you think the 2nd channel is capable of?
How heavy do you feel it can get?

Although I own one Im a little unsure. Everyone seems to use more gain than me to play the same songs. Sort of questioning myself :roll:
Thanks

 

[Octavarius]

I play jazz and use the 2nd channel for a semi-overdriven lead tone. Really fat and dark in the low-end, yet with detailed and glassy definition on the high-end. Sort of a fat clean tone just on the edge of break up, that clips smoothly when you really dig into the strings (Drive 10:15, Gain 12:15). Kinda Scofield-ish, I guess. God, I love my Lonestar.

Anyhow, to answer your question, I rarely use much gain on the Lonestar. I'll often throw in a Barber LTD in front of the existing settings on the 2nd channel for a more liquid'y lead tone. But in my eyes, the amp itself was designed and intended with its tonal focus on the low to mid-gain tones. It's there where it really shines as a tube amp. It does have plenty of gain if you max the drive, gain and treble, but it won't sound heavy like a IIC+, for instance. It's just by nature not suited for tight, high-gain rhythm tones. And frankly I've never heard a single tube amp circuit do both equally well. But for high-gain leads you should check out the Andy Timmons videos on Mesas site. That's in my opinion about as high-gain it'll go without losing the magic. Maybe it's that sort of thing you're after?

 

[djw]

Here's a tip: never question yourself for using LESS gain than others. You're probably a stronger player because of it. I joke, sort of.

The LSC's obvious strengths seem to be in the low-to-mid gain range, but over time I've come around to the opinion that there are amazing lead tones to be had in the higher-gain settings too -- as Octavarius said, they just aren't really tight, "heavy" hi-gain sounds. Different beast really, and not "metallic," but the higher settings offer a really thick, rich overdriven tone with tons of punch and a fair amount of sustain. Think Santana, Cream, and yes, Timmons. It's not about Teh Brutalz (or whatever).

Different boosters can easily tighten up the grind for chunky power chord rhythm, or push it into violin-like singing sustain, which is what a lot of tube amps require to really get that anyway. I really only use one when I'm not feeling very articulate, however... the longer I play, the less I seem to need Endless Sustain to get the job done, and the more I appreciate the attack and punch that my own hands and a properly pushed amp provide. I like the notes to really bark.

And even though pedal-generated OD has its nice points, more and more I appreciate the nuanced harmonic complexity and richness that Channel 2 brings all by itself. Far more expressive and cool than a pedal, I think.

Granted, I'm not really a speedster these days... I play jazzy funk and R&B, with some classic rock thrown in once in a while.

 

[lostcause]

Thanks for the replies.
How about rhythm? I know the level of saturation I can achieve for lead work. Love it. But I only play lead maybe 20-30 seconds for every 3.5-4 mins of rhythm.
Curious to know what the highest gain song's people are using the Lone Star Classic for without using additional gain from a stomp box.

 

[Octavarius]

And even though pedal-generated OD has its nice points, more and more I appreciate the nuanced harmonic complexity and richness that Channel 2 brings all by itself. Far more expressive and cool than a pedal, I think.

Amen!

 

[seerenity]

I have a Speical, so YMMV
but I have found the people that need a pedal to get heavy tones out of a lonestar are not cranking the master and output...

The preamp does not have a lot of gain, however, when the poweramp starts to break up, more...and more.....and MORE

I can do Van Halen, GnR and even some Metalica without ever touching a stompbox


What's more I have found that the LS really sounds best with lots of gain, when you set channel 2 to light breakup I have found everything sounds a bit thin (don't hear that adjective used about the LS too often :lol: )
But when you start to turn up the gain and drive, it thickens up nicely, and then for more gain, turn to the master and output

My .02

 

[lostcause]

I have a Speical, so YMMV
but I have found the people that need a pedal to get heavy tones out of a lonestar are not cranking the master and output...

The preamp does not have a lot of gain, however, when the poweramp starts to break up, more...and more.....and MORE

I can do Van Halen, GnR and even some Metalica without ever touching a stompbox


What's more I have found that the LS really sounds best with lots of gain, when you set channel 2 to light breakup I have found everything sounds a bit thin (don't hear that adjective used about the LS too often :lol: )
But when you start to turn up the gain and drive, it thickens up nicely, and then for more gain, turn to the master and output

My .02

Van Halen and GnR and even some Metalica.
I do play Sweet child of mine through it no worries.
Id probably be brazen enough to play Enter Sandman, through the LSC, at a gig even though I know that the gain level and tone are way off.
Thanks for posting seerenity.

Anyone feel the LS's gain channel is up for Sound garden or similar?

 

[nemesys]

Anyone feel the LS's gain channel is up for Sound garden or similar?

Yes, but not quietly. The key to that sound is 6L6 tubes breaking up. Set it to 100 watts (50 or 10 won't have enough grunt), push your output and master so that happens on a moderate gain setting, maybe add a small amount of drive for a bit of extra crunch.

 

[Telemaster]

I play classic rock and have found that the LSC I have is capable of much more gain than I'm prepared to tolerate. In fact, I always play at the 50w setting on both channels. Even on big stages, where we're mic'd and monitored, that's enough.

 

[Telemaster]

Simple question: How much Gain?
Simple answer: A lot more than your audience is prepared to handle. Really.

 

[lonestarpaul]

Hi Lostcause,
first of all let me link you a couple of vids showing the LS dirt side:

Mesa Boogie Lonestar demo 2 - overdrive channel 2
Mesa Boogie Lonestar demo 3 - hard rock, channel 2
Mesa Boogie Lone Star Demo 2

I own a LSC 50/100w head and I agree with everything's already been said here. If you need a hi-gain amp like Engl or Diezel (for example), you obviously won't find those tones in a Lonestar. BUT channel 2 is still incredibly fat and thick and will cover a lot of rock/hard rock/alt.rock tones alone, especially if you have the chance to crank both channel volume and master up. If you need heavy dirt tones at low volumes, in that case I'd suggest a stompbox to achieve that...don't misunderstand me, it sounds prety good at low volumes too but, like any other tube amp, it shines when cranked.

If this can help you, I play mostly rhytm guitar in a rock/alt.rock band where pretty often I need more grind to play palm muted riffs or fat chords (both open and powerchords). Well, during some recording sessions I had the chance to crank the whole thing up and I can tell you that I left my OD/distortion pedals at home without any problem or regret! That thing was burning our studio walls to the ground!!! :mrgreen:
Another really cool thing is that CH2 has its own character and voicing...you can add some pedals on CH1 to achieve the same amount of gain (or even more if you need), but that would be always different from CH2 tone; this can give you another great option to your tone: for example you can use pedals on CH1 for some tracks and then CH2 alone for others to achieve different flavors.

Besides, talking about the amount of gain, in my humble opinion some of the most powerful thick tones you can hear on records don't really require an insane gain level to be achieved. I think it's more a combination between guitar(s) and bass that make it so fat, along with your playing style (not to mention the whole recording process that makes a HUGE difference, even on live situations). It's never the guitar alone that does the job with an "overgained" distortion: in fact I found out that pretty often the more extreme type of music I listen, the thinner those guitar tones sound to my ears with all that compression coming from a cranked up gain. Just my opinion anyway :wink:

Anyone feel the LS's gain channel is up for Sound garden or similar?

Check out the 2nd vid :wink:

 

[djw]

Hey lonestarpaul -- are you mrpersnicketyplaysgu? Nice demos.

 

[lonestarpaul]

Hey lonestarpaul -- are you mrpersnicketyplaysgu? Nice demos.

...nono, those demos are not mine :mrgreen:
Yeah I agree, great vids! Helped me a lot when I was looking for my LSC :wink:

 

[b0nkersx]

I know this post is old.. but!

I got a (surprisingly) really brutal tone out of my old mans LSC combo (first version that came out) using an EMG loaded guitar. I dimed the drive (thick, btw), treble, presence, and mid, turned the gain to about 2-3 o'clock, bass at 0, loop bypassed, volume at about 10-11 o'clock, diodes, 100W normal (not tweed) power. Crazy weird settings, but I thought it sounded great. I was playing with a drummer, by the way, so that might have had something to do with how I heard everything sound. I bet it would have sounded even better through a V30 cab with a tubescreamer boosting it.

 

[BoogieDown]

Its capable of about a tree-fitty worth of gain, maybe a little more.

Seriously though, it is a high gain monster of an amp but it's not voiced for heavy stuff. Even when using something like a DR or a Mark, I sincerely doubt that folks are using an amount of gain that is outside of what the LS series as a whole can provide. The architecture of "gainier" amps is what makes them have that sound. Too much gain tends to sacrifice clarity. We've all heard that unintelligible wall of high gain sound before. It would seem that people who play in that style tend to use too much gain to begin with so I wouldn't get too caught up in the gain wars. Voicing is another matter altogether.

 

[rmcfee]

I am slowly getting used to my Lonestar and I am finding that it really sounds best when it is at moderate to loud levels.
But I have also found that instead of cranking the drive and gain knobs I can get savage distortion by turning up the Masters high and bringing down the Output. That is ripping.
Also, turn the Output to "10" and then adjust the Masters to get all kinds of heavy but dynamic distortion.
This amp is deceptive - it has a lot of complex tones under the hood that require some experimenting to discover. Very well designed i guess.