How do you hear yourself on stage???

[strumminsix]

What is "sth" ??

 

[Guitarz_18]

What is "sth" ??

:lol: that's what I was wondering

I have a real hard time with live playing and actually hearing
the whole band. All the places we play have huge PA systems
and crank the things way too loud. We usually don't have any
monitors and if we do, its just for vocals. There is no such thing
as a sound check when your the 3rd band of 6 with only a 40 min
set, its roll the other band off, roll us on, go!

I've pretty much given up on even trying to figure out what I
or the band sounds like to the audience. I always think it
sounds like crap and I get almost disoriented from the mush
of sound on stage, so I just set my amp the way I always do
and just play. I have noticed that I must have the 4x12 behind
me, I have to feel the air being pushed almost more than the
tone being produced. I guess that's what happens when you
rehearse loud and have zero control of the house PA. There's
even one venue I will refuse to play in the future because the
sound and soundman are so horrible. Imagine throwing mics
on everything and then delay on every mic, yes, even the drum
mics, well, that's what this idiot does. :roll:

 

[G.I.G.]

that's the sound I get on stage it's so thin... I'll try sth tomorrow and will let u know,
thanks again

In the modern mode, try these eq settings:

gain - 1 or 2 o'clock
bass - 3 o'clock
mid - 11 o'clock
treble - 1 o'clock
presence - 12-3 o'clock (presence can vary depending on channel. This will be your most sensitive control after you have set your eq. Coming down on your presence alone might solve your problem.)

Give those a try and see how it works. Hope it helps.



On a side note, this has always been my moto regarding playing live....

YOUR FEET ARE YOUR BEST MONITOR!

I've always felt that way. I'm not playing Red Rocks and don't expect a perfect sound check with monitors being just perfect. I play small to medium size venues and I don't get a lot of time for sound check (even if we're the only band playing).

If you can't hear the drums well enough, move toward the drums. If you can't hear the lead singer good, move over towards his monitor, etc. If I can't hear myself well enough (no, I don't turn up my volume) I take a step back closer to my amp. I have a pedal board and footswitch like most guitar players, but I'm not wearing cement shoes, I can move around the stage about 90% of the time. If I have a bad mix in my monitor while playing, that's how I solve it on the fly....by moving around. Besides, no one wants to watch you stand at the position of attention all night. :wink:

 

[jazz5]

sth=something (short version) I'm from Europa, Slovenia and that's how I was taught in school.

gain - 1 or 2 o'clock
bass - 3 o'clock
mid - 11 o'clock
treble - 1 o'clock
presence - 12-3 o'clock (presence can vary depending on channel. This will be your most sensitive control after you have set your eq. Coming down on your presence alone might solve your problem.)

I'll try this settings but the bass won't go up to 3 o.clock, I have Marshall 1960A box with celestion vint 30 in it and it just can't support mesa, can't produce it's power specially basses, if I turn up bass higher than 11 o'clock the basses won't come out when playing palm mute on low E string. my sound become muddy and spoils the whole sound picture of the band. that's why I keep my bass around 10, 11 o'clock.

 

[kylek]

i found that if it gets a little muddy, add some more presence and some mids. It should take the mud out like some ajax detergent.

 

[SFW]

hmmmm.... I've NEVER been ashamed to be playing Mesa gear on stage. Actually, I set up my rig with pride. Readjust your settings or pick up a Thiele cab to run by your monitor. This will put a speaker next to you, so you can hear yourself like you do in practice.

 

[G.I.G.]

I'll try this settings but the bass won't go up to 3 o.clock, I have Marshall 1960A box with celestion vint 30 in it and it just can't support mesa, can't produce it's power specially basses, if I turn up bass higher than 11 o'clock the basses won't come out when playing palm mute on low E string. my sound become muddy and spoils the whole sound picture of the band. that's why I keep my bass around 10, 11 o'clock.

I play through Mesa "traditional" recto cabs with Vintage 30's which are the same demensions as your 1960 Marshall with the same speakers so our results shouldn't be too different. I get plenty of low-end chunk out of my cabs so I don't think it's your cabinet.

Mesa's have very sensitive controls and they all interact closely with one another. If you're getting too much mud from having your bass up around 3 o'clock, maybe try adding some presence and/or mids like kylek mentioned. If you try the bass at 3 o'clock with the rest of the settings I mentioned above, you might be in good shape. I have a 3 channel Dual Rec however so it might be a little different then your situation with a 2 channel DR.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of tubes are you running and how old are they? The reason why I ask is because some tubes age differently, but harsh highs and loosing tightness in the lows can certainly be a sign of aging tubes. That's something to keep in mind if all else fails.

 

[strumminsix]

When I hear mud, I increase the Treb slightly.

 

[OneMoreAugust]

there is a lot of good advise here, but Jazz, when it comes down to it, if you are not mic'ed you will never sound as good as you do at practice. I have similar concerns w/ my 3ch dual, and I noticed at practice if I listen directly in front about 6feet away it loses all the mesa low end...and sounds thin. But on stage, mic'ed, it sounds as good as when I am standing next to the cab. It's too bad you can't press the audience against your cab!
We just played an outdoor show w/ a stage and only mics on the vocals. It was the worst my amp sounded. I don't think a single closed-back cab can provide enough volume for that environment w/o destroying your tone. I wouldn't be ashammed of your mesa, just try to stay away from 'no-mic' gigs, unless it's a basement or other small room show. Your cab wasn't designed to provide the sound to an entire ampitheater!

 

[strumminsix]

For smaller gigs a 1x12 is just fine.

However, you may want a second cab somewhere to open up your sound.


But I think they key word here is "sound reinforcement".

Too many musicians forget that mic'ing instruments and just having a little
bit come thru the mains leaving most of the room being filled from the amp
is a very good thing and saves ears and improves mix.

 

[jazz5]

ok, report form yesterdays gig.

the sound I had on stage was great, first of all I had some time befor the sound check to make some corrections on EQ, the amp was standing 6 feet begind my back and in sounded preety good, plus I had a great sound in the side-fill mointors. perhaps next time I'll take to tubes out and make in 50w so I could turn the volumen up a bit, bacause I had it on 10 o'clock and the amp itselfe just culdnt produce the sound it could otherwise.

one question: dous everyone know the difference in sound if you play on 16ohms, 8 ohms or 4 ohms? I heard that mesa DR sound best when played on 8 or 4??

thanks

 

[G.I.G.]

Glad to hear you were able to get your amp dialed in for you gig!

When I play live gigs, I usually have my master set at between 10 and 11 o'clock. I've never felt the need to go much higher than that. I feel that I get enough power tube saturation at that level without sacrificing clean head room. Keep in mind, about 80% of your sound comes from your preamp, so you shouldn't have to crank it to "11" in order to get the sound you want.

I don't think what ohms you're running at makes a huge difference in tone, as long as it is a correct match or a safe mis-match. I've just always gone by what it recomends in my owners manual. 8 ohms from the head to 8 ohms in the speaker cabinet.