How about a mini recto!

[InsomniaClown]

So there are some really cool mini stacks out there right now. I am looking into getting one for recording purposes. The Marshall MG 15 sounds quite good and is pretty cheap, then you've got the Krank Rev jr pro, and coming soon, the Krankenstein jr. I love the idea of these amps for recording and practice amp purposes. I have never owned a practice amp. Honestly, I could never get past the mediocre tone.

So, do you guys think we will ever see a mini recto stack?

I know mesa has some lower watt stuff like the express series, but it's not a recto! The Krank and the Marshall have awesome power, gain, and huge tone for the small package with the added bonus of being able to crank them up without blowing yourself out of the room.

So why don't I buy a marshall or a krank mini stack? Simple. I like Mesa Boogies.

 

[Elixir]

I love that idea but I don't think Boogie would ever do it. Egnatar has a really nice one, just imagine what a boogie could sound lik e :shock:

 

[JonCurcio]

I can see it happening.

 

[InsomniaClown]

Well, I can dream!. Its really tough to get that cranked boogie sound when you can't crank your boogie. If my volume is past 9:00, I am risking eviction! I will check out that egnatar for now.

 

[Jacko123]

I can totally see it. A 7/15 watt version like Orange's tiny terror. I'd get one

 

[TheBlackman]

maybe the problem is that if they had a 15 watt or so mini-recto, even though it would sound awesome with a 1x10 or something, it might sound too good driving a 4x12 cab and they'd loose sales on the higher power stuff, could put them in the entry-level amp market, and we all know that mesa's are rarely a beginners choice (dream maybe!). Plus it would probably still cost about $600-800!

 

[pokerrules47]

They have one, it's called the rectoverb...

 

[coppa]

randall rm20 and recto module?

probably close enough

 

[InsomniaClown]

They have one, it's called the rectoverb...

I don't know about anybody else's rectoverb, but mine is ridiculously loud. I played a gig once in a large bar, lots of people were there, 1x12 rectoverb sitting on the floor, no mic in front of it. I had no problems being heard, and the volume knob never passed 12:00.

I am not wanting this mini stack for anything but recording in situations where I can't get the amp up to the sweet spot. Something low power that you can jam on, and still get that raging boogie sound. Although I did check out some samples of the express 5:25, and it sounded pretty nice.

 

[MetalMatt]

Well you could get an express and slave your Recto into its power section for the low volume thing. As far as a mini Recto, the only version I can see working is one of these on top of 2 1x12's

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of%20_Production/Recto_Rack/recto_rack.html

A mini recto would be very cute! :shock: ...Oh! errrr, ahhh, I mean COOL! :twisted:

 

[MF]

randall rm20 and recto module?

probably close enough

I'm using a Vox AD100VT and it's got a Recto model which sounds pretty good. Not as good as my actual recto, but very good for bedroom levels.

 

[InsomniaClown]

I used to go to my guitar rig 3 software, but even a poorly recorded recto takes guitar rig 3 to school, and then beats the crap out f it and steals it's lunch money. I was thinking of getting one of those Egnater or Marshall mini stacks, and then running my Zvex box of metal through it. The box of metal is the only pedal I have ever heard come close to a recto.

 

[lerxst88]

I think the issue with the idea of a mini recto is that it doent make sense. allow me to explain:

the reason some amps are making mini versions is because those amps are used for rock rather than metal where power tube saturation is key and with the metal sound its more about lots of headroom and you typically take all the mids out (which power tube saturation causes) so that wouldnt really help you out. im not oppsed to them making a mini stack or even a version of the express with more gain im just saying it doesnt really make sense musically.

im not sure why krank decided to make a mini stack but orange (tiny terror), egnater (rebel) and Marshall are all rock brands that built their fame on power tube saturation and theyre trying to adjust to a quieting world.

 

[jdurso]

I used to go to my guitar rig 3 software, but even a poorly recorded recto takes guitar rig 3 to school, and then beats the crap out f it and steals it's lunch money. I was thinking of getting one of those Egnater or Marshall mini stacks, and then running my Zvex box of metal through it. The box of metal is the only pedal I have ever heard come close to a recto.

MI Audio Tube Zone comes pretty close

 

[jdurso]

I think the issue with the idea of a mini recto is that it doent make sense. allow me to explain:

the reason some amps are making mini versions is because those amps are used for rock rather than metal where power tube saturation is key and with the metal sound its more about lots of headroom and you typically take all the mids out (which power tube saturation causes) so that wouldnt really help you out. im not oppsed to them making a mini stack or even a version of the express with more gain im just saying it doesnt really make sense musically.

im not sure why krank decided to make a mini stack but orange (tiny terror), egnater (rebel) and Marshall are all rock brands that built their fame on power tube saturation and theyre trying to adjust to a quieting world.

I dont buy the whole power vs preamp distortion as for why it wouldnt make sense for Mesa to put out a Mini Recto. If anything it would make more sense to design a mini amp off of an amp that relies on preamp distortion because to get a good power amp distortion amp to its sweet spot requires playing at super high levels or using an attenuator. Even you 5 Watt single ended class A amps get pretty loud when you hit the sweet spot (just not as loud as a 50 or 100 watt amp). Plus categorizing Marshall as just a rock amp is a bit of a stretch too, if anything they were THE amp for early Metal and Trash.

I think the biggest reason not to dive into the Mini market is because Mesa is NOT going to give up quality and reliability thats made them the company they are. It may be me, but when i think mini stack i think affordible which in most cases translates into cheap in comparison to the manufacturers regular lines. If Mesa were to make a mini recto up to their standards i bet it would go for at least $1000 if not more. At that price point I dont think your going to get many people biting, especially when you can get a used 2 or 3 channel recto for that much. So to make it more affordible they'd need to cut back on the design and quality of the components, which would bring the price down to a competitive level but in my eyes would end up killing their reputation. Keep in mind the Marshall and Egnator mini stacks are built in China/Korea, not at the shops where they build their higher end products... that plays into the price point as well, and I highly doubt Mesa would ever venture down that road. At the end of the day i woudl think they want to retain some of that high end/boutique stigma, and diving into the affordible market with a mini stack just doesnt make sense for a company like them.

Now what I can see them doing in a few years is something like a Single Channel Recto, bare bones, meat and potatoes amp. Very much like the ElectraDyne or VHTs Deliverence, a one trick pony that does its trick better than any others. Make it a straight up high gain monster with your main eq controls and possibly a contour knob and solo switch (which would be the only switchable parts of the amp). Maybe do a 50/100 watt switch on the back and the three voicings on the front, and make its price point near the Express. I think a lot of people would buy into that as I know way too many Recto users that just use 1 channel for everything, using either ODs for boosts or their volume knob on their guitar to get the cleans they want.

 

[InsomniaClown]

I think Marshall can still hold it's own in the metal category. Kerry kings JCM 800 is pretty ridiculous. Different strokes for different folks.

Pre amp distortion on it's own is not that pretty. That's where power tube saturation comes into play. It smooths it out, gives it some body, and really lets you feel the chugging insanity, not just hear it. At the sweet spot, I get incredible metal tones with my gain control set at around 1:00. Giving me heavy distortion, while allowing me to retain note definition and clarity. Turning the gain much past this point adds a lot of mud and takes away a lot of detail. Well, in my opinion anyway.

Back on topic. Smaller amps, when recorded, can sound much bigger than larger amps. The reason for this is the much lower bass response. Yes, those 20 watt mini stacks are very loud. A 100 watt recto puts out 3 more decibels than a 50 watt recto. So it's not loudness, it's bass response. You buy a dual rectifier because it puts out a much tighter sounding low end than a single rectifier, giving the dual a more powerful sound. However, all that bass colours the sound, and is inevitably stripped out in the mix to make room for other instruments. There, I said it.

Bass also travels much farther than treble and mid range frequencies. A super loud, low bass set up turned up to the max will probably not penetrate the average house wall, so you don't have to worry about sound proofing. Believe me, turning down the bass eq is not an equivalent.

Plus, those mini stacks are cool! Well, I like them. I would pay over $1000 for a boogie mini stack. I know that marshall and krank ones are made with inferior components in a third world country. That's one reason why I haven't run out and bought one.

 

[jdurso]

I think Marshall can still hold it's own in the metal category. Kerry kings JCM 800 is pretty ridiculous. Different strokes for different folks.

Pre amp distortion on it's own is not that pretty. That's where power tube saturation comes into play. It smooths it out, gives it some body, and really lets you feel the chugging insanity, not just hear it. At the sweet spot, I get incredible metal tones with my gain control set at around 1:00. Giving me heavy distortion, while allowing me to retain note definition and clarity. Turning the gain much past this point adds a lot of mud and takes away a lot of detail. Well, in my opinion anyway.

Back on topic. Smaller amps, when recorded, can sound much bigger than larger amps. The reason for this is the much lower bass response. Yes, those 20 watt mini stacks are very loud. A 100 watt recto puts out 3 more decibels than a 50 watt recto. So it's not loudness, it's bass response. You buy a dual rectifier because it puts out a much tighter sounding low end than a single rectifier, giving the dual a more powerful sound. However, all that bass colours the sound, and is inevitably stripped out in the mix to make room for other instruments. There, I said it.

Bass also travels much farther than treble and mid range frequencies. A super loud, low bass set up turned up to the max will probably not penetrate the average house wall, so you don't have to worry about sound proofing. Believe me, turning down the bass eq is not an equivalent.

Plus, those mini stacks are cool! Well, I like them. I would pay over $1000 for a boogie mini stack. I know that marshall and krank ones are made with inferior components in a third world country. That's one reason why I haven't run out and bought one.

Agreed on the marshall comment... they definitely aren't my type of amp, but they are no doubt metal amps. The DSL, TSL, and JVM can all get pretty brutal tones out of them.

As for smaller amps vs bigger amps; while i agree the volume levels arent a huge difference (3 dbs can be a pretty big jump BTW depending on where you're jumping from), the real difference is in the headroom. Bass response can and should be determined by your cabinet/speaker choice. So going back to the SR vs DR... while you will get a bigger sounding bass, most of your end result will be determined by how much of that bass your cab can translate properly. My Mills cab can destroy most other guitar cabs out there in terms of translating bass frequencies, where as your run of the mill Marshall cab will start farting out. So while i think bass response plays some part in the tonal differences between smaller amps and larger ones, the true difference which no cab, eq pedal or tube arrangement can alter is the difference in headroom. The fact that i can drive a 150 watt TR clean for a more extrended volume range than a 50 SR, is the reason Mesa even makes three wattage platforms for the Rectos.

BTW, if you feel the Recto's bass colours the mix too much, do yourself a favor and get a Mills cab :wink:

As far as the mini stacks being cool... i tend to agree with you. The only problem is i think there is enough demand to warrant Mesa putting out a $1000+ mini stack and they sure as hell arent going to skimp on quality. Personally I'd like to see a one channel, bare bones Recto or an update to the Express to add more high gain before we see a mini stack.

 

[lerxst88]

A high gain express would be fantastic and i bet Mesa would sell a ton of those.

also i came from a marshall DSL401 and it could NOT do metal. I tried everything: 4x12 cab, eq pedal, booster pedal, hotter bias. It could rock no doubt but my Line 6 had a better metal sound so i knew it was time to sell it

 

[Jacko123]

I like the High gain Express idea a lot.

 

[jdurso]

I like the High gain Express idea a lot.

that would pretty much be a DC-10 though, but im not complaining