I would think that any non-master volume amp would benefit more from an attenuator than a master volume amp would.
Hotplates & Your Mesa Boogie Amp
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I have a THD Hotplate for my Recto-Verb 2 series and have found that I don't like it. It is hard to get bedroom levels on this amp without it because the Output knob is so sensitive, but the tone just goes away when using the Hot Plate. The thing I've discovered is a main part of your sound and tone is the speakers reaction with the air. It just plain sounds better when it's being pushed. The difference in tone is completely different when the speaker is not working very hard, regardless of the power amp section of your amp. I think the ear plug idea is the best. BUT, if you can't play your amp loud, an EQ in the loop will get you the tones you seek at lower volumes. I'm gonna sell my Hot Plate right now.
Good luck.
Good luck.
A lot of good info in this thread.
I haven't bought a hotplate yet, but I am thinking about it.
The problem I have with my Road King is that at really low volumes the distortion is fuzzy.
Once I turn it up, the fuzz goes away, the bottom end tightens right up. It sounds sweet.
I don't have to turn it up to deafening volumes, but loud enough that it is not possible once the wife and kid go do bed. So I wouldn't say it needs to be cranked, but too loud once everyone goes to bed.
When they go to bed I found it is best just to turn the gain way down, and throw a pedal in there with a touch of overdrive.
No, it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the amp turned up with no pedal, but it is better then the fizzy sound I get at ultra low volumes
I haven't bought a hotplate yet, but I am thinking about it.
The problem I have with my Road King is that at really low volumes the distortion is fuzzy.
Once I turn it up, the fuzz goes away, the bottom end tightens right up. It sounds sweet.
I don't have to turn it up to deafening volumes, but loud enough that it is not possible once the wife and kid go do bed. So I wouldn't say it needs to be cranked, but too loud once everyone goes to bed.
When they go to bed I found it is best just to turn the gain way down, and throw a pedal in there with a touch of overdrive.
No, it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the amp turned up with no pedal, but it is better then the fizzy sound I get at ultra low volumes
NoGlassNoClass
Well-known member
Klaasman said:
+1,000,000. I agree that attenuators can be useful for non-master volume amplifiers, but running the power section hard is only part of the equation. To get your rig to really give up the goods, you have to move some air, and IMO the more the better. When I am practicing quietly at home, I use a small practice amp (if I plug in at all)...not really worried about "ultimate tone" in that scenario.
jab said:
I just tried it on a Road King. I cranked the master and left the channel way down. It sounded very fizzy, no bottom at all.
I found it sounded much better when I cranked the channel to about 3-3:30 and brought the output up slowly. Sounded really good in fact.
Maybe it sounds better that way on the Stilletto.
i have a 16ohm hotplate and it's a love/hate relationship with it.
at rehearsals, it's pretty much a must to have; we have a female singer and her vocals is the main part of it; i don't want to overpower her so i use it at -12db (have both my output and channel masters at 12 o'clock)
on stage, i use the hotplate at -4db and in that setting i get the best tone, and the cabs are also mic.
there are times that i love my tone, there are times i hate it! so i'm sorry to the OP if this post confuses you more
i guess i'm still looking for the holy grail of tone...
-PJ
at rehearsals, it's pretty much a must to have; we have a female singer and her vocals is the main part of it; i don't want to overpower her so i use it at -12db (have both my output and channel masters at 12 o'clock)
on stage, i use the hotplate at -4db and in that setting i get the best tone, and the cabs are also mic.
there are times that i love my tone, there are times i hate it! so i'm sorry to the OP if this post confuses you more
i guess i'm still looking for the holy grail of tone...
-PJ
well, i just got a mesa 4x12 traditional cab... and it's 8ohm, so i was forced to take out the hotplate.
played it last night at rehearsal and the sound was AWESOME!!!
i think it's safe to say i won't be using my hotplate anytime soon!
-PJ
played it last night at rehearsal and the sound was AWESOME!!!
i think it's safe to say i won't be using my hotplate anytime soon!
-PJ
Z Airbrake.....Plain and simple...
just have it set on 2 or 3....if I want to go very quiet I use the bedroom setting with the level set around 3PM....and when I need that extra quietness, I simply unhook the speaker cable and hook up a decent pair of headphones into the airbrake....
edit*
....another thing about this is that I do not need to worry about the speaker and head ohm's....
just have it set on 2 or 3....if I want to go very quiet I use the bedroom setting with the level set around 3PM....and when I need that extra quietness, I simply unhook the speaker cable and hook up a decent pair of headphones into the airbrake....
edit*
....another thing about this is that I do not need to worry about the speaker and head ohm's....
sethery2319
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my tremoverb sounds about the same at all volumes levels, i feel this would be a waist of money for me. With a gain knob on the clean channel, i dont have to crank anything to get break up
geddyentwistle
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my dual rec finally kicks ***
it has 2 el34 and 2 6v6 in the power amp... 8 ohm hotplate at -12db...run into a 2x12, either greenbacks or vintage 30s depending on my mood
the 3 pre-amp channels are set completely differently and they are all awesome..takes single coils and humbuckers great...
it took 6 years to make this amp AWESOME
it has 2 el34 and 2 6v6 in the power amp... 8 ohm hotplate at -12db...run into a 2x12, either greenbacks or vintage 30s depending on my mood
the 3 pre-amp channels are set completely differently and they are all awesome..takes single coils and humbuckers great...
it took 6 years to make this amp AWESOME
Im using a Weber Mass for my Triple Rec. If you are in situations where you need to cut the volume some, attenuators are great things to have. The Weber is different in that it has a linear dial so you can dial it down as much or little as you like. I didnt like the Hotplate cause is seemed like I always wound up a little louder or a little quieter than I needed to be.
The first set I generally cut the volume way back, raise it some the second set, somewhere in the 3rd set if we have a thick crowd I bypass it altogether.
If you are looking for an attenuator I suggest at least researching the Weber, it uses a dummy speaker cone instead of a resistor like all the rest. And if you want to crank it at midnite in an apartment complex, you can dial it down to a whisper.
I hear from various people that these devices will kill the transformers, Ive had one of the old Tom Sholz Power Soaks for years and have used it on a variety of amps and never killed a transformer yet. Oh yeah the Weber has an adjustable ohm load unlike Hotplates.
The first set I generally cut the volume way back, raise it some the second set, somewhere in the 3rd set if we have a thick crowd I bypass it altogether.
If you are looking for an attenuator I suggest at least researching the Weber, it uses a dummy speaker cone instead of a resistor like all the rest. And if you want to crank it at midnite in an apartment complex, you can dial it down to a whisper.
I hear from various people that these devices will kill the transformers, Ive had one of the old Tom Sholz Power Soaks for years and have used it on a variety of amps and never killed a transformer yet. Oh yeah the Weber has an adjustable ohm load unlike Hotplates.
jdurso
Well-known member
i had the hotplate for a few weeks and found two issues with attenuators in general:
1. they do a number on your power tubes. i knew that before buying the hotplate but wow i did a number on the power tubes
2. on my roadster i found i could only crank to a certain level before i started losing headroom. when i finally got the amp to the setting with the amount of headroom i like, i realized i was barely attenuating (-4 on the hotplate) and the difference between the -4 setting and no attenuator was so minimal that it didnt warrant the $330 i paid for it. so i returned it and got an eventide timefactor.
i think if i was in a band setting more and always had spare tubes around i would look into another attenuator (maybe the weber) but for what im doing right now, it just didnt make sense.
1. they do a number on your power tubes. i knew that before buying the hotplate but wow i did a number on the power tubes
2. on my roadster i found i could only crank to a certain level before i started losing headroom. when i finally got the amp to the setting with the amount of headroom i like, i realized i was barely attenuating (-4 on the hotplate) and the difference between the -4 setting and no attenuator was so minimal that it didnt warrant the $330 i paid for it. so i returned it and got an eventide timefactor.
i think if i was in a band setting more and always had spare tubes around i would look into another attenuator (maybe the weber) but for what im doing right now, it just didnt make sense.
Charles Reeder
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Greetings:
I am pretty sure that my use and experience with 'Hot-Plates' and the like; is not what is being considered here. But I will tell of my past and current use anyway...just in case this might be helpful to someone with goals like mine.
In years past when the Scholtz 'Power-Soak' was the only one around (or that I was aware of anyway) I used it with my Marshall and Orange amps. It worked but it did change the tone and dynamics of the amps. Both the bass and treble frequencies seemed to suffer attenuation and the sound was more compressed and dynamics were lost. But it was the only real alternative I had at the time. I was not...like many today trying to get 'bedroom' volume levels either...I never used more than about 6db of attenuation.
These days I use my Weber in an unusual way (and only to get about 3db 'maximum' of attenuation) for tailoring my amp to the particular place I'm playing. Actually 3db is plenty of control when you are pretty close to a volume match anyway. I run only 1-speaker of my 2-speaker cabinet through the Weber. My other speaker is run direct from the amp and is totally unaffected by the Weber.
The speaker run through the Weber can be attenuated ever so slightly, completely,or not at all by using the bypass.
In effect...(for example)...when I have my amp (Lonestar Classic) running at 50-watts, and use the 'maximum' attenuation, I am only using 1-speaker which is only getting 25-watts...so I have the tone of a 25-watt amp that is 'cranked'. I can set the Weber at less than max attenuation and get a volume somewhere between 25 and 50 watts. With the Weber only effecting 1-speaker there is less 'coloration' of sound as would be the case when using it on both speakers. If you knew for certain that you wanted a 3db volume cut; you could use a 'dummy load' in parallel with a speaker... which is cheaper than any Hot-Plate
Once again...I realize this is not the reason or use that most people buy the various 'Hot-Plate' devices for. It does not give bedroom level volumes...but for that I simply use smaller amps.
Charles
I am pretty sure that my use and experience with 'Hot-Plates' and the like; is not what is being considered here. But I will tell of my past and current use anyway...just in case this might be helpful to someone with goals like mine.
In years past when the Scholtz 'Power-Soak' was the only one around (or that I was aware of anyway) I used it with my Marshall and Orange amps. It worked but it did change the tone and dynamics of the amps. Both the bass and treble frequencies seemed to suffer attenuation and the sound was more compressed and dynamics were lost. But it was the only real alternative I had at the time. I was not...like many today trying to get 'bedroom' volume levels either...I never used more than about 6db of attenuation.
These days I use my Weber in an unusual way (and only to get about 3db 'maximum' of attenuation) for tailoring my amp to the particular place I'm playing. Actually 3db is plenty of control when you are pretty close to a volume match anyway. I run only 1-speaker of my 2-speaker cabinet through the Weber. My other speaker is run direct from the amp and is totally unaffected by the Weber.
The speaker run through the Weber can be attenuated ever so slightly, completely,or not at all by using the bypass.
In effect...(for example)...when I have my amp (Lonestar Classic) running at 50-watts, and use the 'maximum' attenuation, I am only using 1-speaker which is only getting 25-watts...so I have the tone of a 25-watt amp that is 'cranked'. I can set the Weber at less than max attenuation and get a volume somewhere between 25 and 50 watts. With the Weber only effecting 1-speaker there is less 'coloration' of sound as would be the case when using it on both speakers. If you knew for certain that you wanted a 3db volume cut; you could use a 'dummy load' in parallel with a speaker... which is cheaper than any Hot-Plate
Once again...I realize this is not the reason or use that most people buy the various 'Hot-Plate' devices for. It does not give bedroom level volumes...but for that I simply use smaller amps.
Charles
I have a single recto
I use a dummy load and speaker simulator by SPL. then I run it through a mixer and then into pa or other fullrange system even a boom box or head phones or what ever.
To me the result sounds like a well recorder recto far better then what ID ever be able to do myself with microphones, BUT for jamming and stuff it still sounds better when you crank the monitors.
Someone said something about moving air. ITs still important to move air even if your playing with a dummy load and reamping. THe only thing that will give you that effect is turning it up.
in a way cranked tone at bedroom volumes is not possible because most of the cranked tone is all inside your head when you actualy do crank it up. It may be possible with headphones, but you do run the risk of hearing damage even tho your not going to be bothering anyone else.
I use a dummy load and speaker simulator by SPL. then I run it through a mixer and then into pa or other fullrange system even a boom box or head phones or what ever.
To me the result sounds like a well recorder recto far better then what ID ever be able to do myself with microphones, BUT for jamming and stuff it still sounds better when you crank the monitors.
Someone said something about moving air. ITs still important to move air even if your playing with a dummy load and reamping. THe only thing that will give you that effect is turning it up.
in a way cranked tone at bedroom volumes is not possible because most of the cranked tone is all inside your head when you actualy do crank it up. It may be possible with headphones, but you do run the risk of hearing damage even tho your not going to be bothering anyone else.
I have a Marshall SE100 rack mount active load attenuator/emulator. I bought it new in 1992 from Manny's in New York. I thinks it's 4U in size. It's very heavy and very good. I saw many top shelf touring bands using them and when I saw it one too many times and decided to get one. It was slightly over $500 then.
See if you can round one up. They are stellar.
See if you can round one up. They are stellar.
jdurso
Well-known member
coppa said:
interesting you say its all in your head because im in the midst of reading this book This is Your Brain on Music and it speaks to the fact that all sound is just an interpetation of the brain. What we actually call tone is a combination of pitch and timbre which is interpreted from the sound waves and vibrations that hit our ear drums. All that means is that because what we "hear" is an interpretation, we all hear/interpret things slightly different. I think that plays a big part in what someone considers cranked or a good tone or all the different jargon we throw out there to describe our interpretation. I highly recommend the book to all musicians and engineers... very cool read.
I use my hotplate with my Rectoverb to just bring down the level so it's not blowing me out of the room. My amp sounds like night and day when I can get the Channel master past 9:00 and the output past 9:00.
so I set the channel master to 11:00 and the output to 10:00 and cut it back -8 or -12dbs. I never really go above that because that's when the tone really starts to change. At -8 my amp sounds pertty much the same as it does without the hotplate.................just a little quieter.
Anyone who buys one of these and expects to get a cranked tone at a bedroom whisper volume is setting themselves up for a huge dissapointment. You're better off buying a pod for playing at those low levels. My Recto cab needs a little air going thru it to sound it's best,
that's part of what makes the "cranked" tone in the first place.
so I set the channel master to 11:00 and the output to 10:00 and cut it back -8 or -12dbs. I never really go above that because that's when the tone really starts to change. At -8 my amp sounds pertty much the same as it does without the hotplate.................just a little quieter.
Anyone who buys one of these and expects to get a cranked tone at a bedroom whisper volume is setting themselves up for a huge dissapointment. You're better off buying a pod for playing at those low levels. My Recto cab needs a little air going thru it to sound it's best,
that's part of what makes the "cranked" tone in the first place.
kmanick said:
you play live with the hotplate? in all my years playing, i've yet to come across a band that uses a hotplate live. but i do get quite a few soundguys talk to me about getting one themselves after seeing me play with it.
-PJ
MarkIVwidebody
Well-known member
I had a 16ohm THD and used it with a 6505. It was a big disappointment and I sold it after about 6 months. SOunded like crap.
