Hi, Im new here and I'm confused!

[Red=Lead!]

Hey im new here so first thing is HI EVERYONE!

Now the pleasantries are out the way, maybe someone here can help me with my confusion...

I own a Mesa DC-5 and has groove tubes installed when I bought it. It's been fine since and that's about a year ago. I love it! Anyway, after reading the article in manual by Randall Smith, I kinda feel reluctant to having groove tubes in and should really go for the recommended Mesa Boogie Valves. What do you think?

The plot thickens. It's possible for me to get my hands on some second hand STR 415's. I've heard that they are somewhat of a legacy when it comes to valves and after doing some research, I thought, hmmm, maybe it'd be a good idea to get them if funds allow.

However, before doing that, I decided to call Mesa themselves and see what they had to say. I told them that I have a Mesa Boogie DC-5, I had an opportunity to get some second hand STR 415s and would they work okay in my amplifier? The guy on the other end told me to wait while he checked then said "yeah, they'd work fine. We have a limited supply of STR 415s at $75 dollars each. However, I recommend that you use STR 440s in your amp and save yourself some cash."

Can you see why I'm confused? Now I don't know wether to trust this guy at Mesa Boogie - I mean he was being honest - or should I go with the positive recommendation by the people who use them etc?

Please help me with my dilemma. I'd very much appreciate it if you can!

 

[mrmax]

I've got 2 DC 10's, I have Electro Harmonix power tubes in one and JJ's in the other, I had bias pots installed and not limited to Boogie Tubes :idea: :idea:

 

[RR]

This is my opinion which might not reflect many opinions here.

That article you read in the manual about STR415 tubes actually applies if you are a owner of an original Mark I, Mark II and not certain about Mark III. Those two amps were based and the bias set around the Sylvania STR415s.

Your DC5 is not as finicky as a Mark I, Mark II and will accept the STR440s. I would even think your bias is set for these tubes. But I'm not certain.

So spending more on STR415s is not that beneficial for your DC5 I would think.

Hope others will chime in with their comments and opinions.

 

[LithiumZero]

While I have no experience with the 415's I HIGHLY recommend SED tubes. They sound EXCELLENT in my DC-10 head. Save even more money by going to tubedepot.com and ordering SED 6L6GC's from them. In the comments part of the order form request that they ship tubes that are in the Mesa bias range. You'll thank me later! They were an nice upgrade from the 440's that I replaced. I think that Mesa sells the SED's and call them 454's. They just cost more.

 

[dodger916]

Hey im new here so first thing is HI EVERYONE!

The plot thickens. It's possible for me to get my hands on some second hand STR 415's. I've heard that they are somewhat of a legacy when it comes to valves and after doing some research, I thought, hmmm, maybe it'd be a good idea to get them if funds allow.

However, before doing that, I decided to call Mesa themselves and see what they had to say. I told them that I have a Mesa Boogie DC-5, I had an opportunity to get some second hand STR 415s and would they work okay in my amplifier? The guy on the other end told me to wait while he checked then said "yeah, they'd work fine. We have a limited supply of STR 415s at $75 dollars each. However, I recommend that you use STR 440s in your amp and save yourself some cash."

I asked about 415s and was told the same thing, so I opted to save the money. The individual also mentioned any nuance attributable to the 415s is lost after the first cymbal crash! Of course, this would probably not apply to recording.

As a relative noob to Mesas (been playing for 35 years), one thing I've come to realize is people's passion for these amps sometimes borders on fanatical...and for good reason! There's real art and magic on tap in these amps. So some people MUST have the 415s, whereas most others will be happy with the 440s. In a blind test, you might not be able to tell the difference, or you might even prefer the 440s! "Better" is a matter of taste. Get the 415s if you're really curious. You could easily sell them if they don't suit you.

Concerning Groove Tubes, they are the only non-Mesa tubes that will NOT void the warranty. Just make sure you get the right ones. From the Groove Tubes website:

Mesa scale ------ Groove Tubes scale
Red ..................... 4
Yellow ................ 4
Green ............... 5
Gray ................... 5
Blue .................. 6
White ................. 6


http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Rating.html

Concerning SEDs, I have a quad in my Mark IV and like them. They replaced 6V6s, and 430s before that. I also have two 440s in my 60 watt IIC and really like them too. I hardly play the Mark IV anymore. 8) Bottom line: I think sometimes "different" sounds "better". YMMV (your mileage may vary).

 

[Red=Lead!]

Cheers for the opinions guys. I appreciate it! I reckon I'm gonna go with the guy from mesa n those who say 440s. It makes sense really!

Thanks again!

 

[Red=Lead!]

Cheers for the opinions guys. I appreciate it! I reckon I'm gonna go with the guy from mesa n those who say 440s. It makes sense really!

Thanks again!

 

[6L6C]

While I have no experience with the 415's I HIGHLY recommend SED tubes. They sound EXCELLENT in my DC-10 head. Save even more money by going to tubedepot.com and ordering SED 6L6GC's from them. In the comments part of the order form request that they ship tubes that are in the Mesa bias range. You'll thank me later! They were an nice upgrade from the 440's that I replaced. I think that Mesa sells the SED's and call them 454's. They just cost more.

+1
Tried SED's last year for my Mark IV the amp never sounded better in the 14 years I have owned it.

 

[phyrexia]

Well, of course he says you should buy the new tubes instead of the second hand tubes.

 

[JOEY B.]

The "105" PT C+ amps and any of the Series 300 Coliseum amps that see 480+ volts on the plates are the only MESA amps that I could justify the extra cost involved. GT-6L6GE, SED winged =C=, or MESA STR-440 for anything else, including my MkI. 8)

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I've got 2 DC 10's, I have Electro Harmonix power tubes in one and JJ's in the other, I had bias pots installed and not limited to Boogie Tubes

Exactly. I have a bias pot in my DC-10 and don't give a rat's *** about Randall's tubes.

:? I'm not lucky enough to have 2 DC-10's. I do have a DC-3 and Heartbreaker head though.

 

[6L6C]

I've got 2 DC 10's, I have Electro Harmonix power tubes in one and JJ's in the other, I had bias pots installed and not limited to Boogie Tubes :idea: :idea:

Exactly. I have a bias pot in my DC-10 and don't give a rat's *** about Randall's tubes.

:? I'm not lucky enough to have 2 DC-10's. I do have a DC-3 and Heartbreaker head though.

Really a good idea allows you guys to enter the world of NOS tubes, allot more choices that’s for sure!

 

[phyrexia]

To hijack: does anybody have the part number of the bias pot they used? I have installed one in my amp but it is not ideal.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

R-V10KL-BP-FND www.tubesandmore.com


It will not work by itself, nor should it be the only resistor between your Bias Supply and Ground.

Look at the drawing for a Fender AB763 Twin Reverb. It has a 15k resistor from the middle leg of the Bias Pot to ground. This keeps the Bias voltage from being directly shorted to ground.


10k is a good enough value, although, you may have to experiment with the 15k a bit. I think my DC-10 has the 10k pot with 18k or so resistance to ground.


Marshall uses a 25k pot, but usually it is a micro pot that is fixed to the circuit board an not accessible from the outside of the amp.


Another way that I've done it on Plexi clones is to disect a 25k pot and cut the shaft down. Then cut a groove in the top of the shaft so that you can adjust it with a screwdriver. Be careful not to get a lot of metal shavings in the resistor part of the pot or the lubricant that is inside it. It's a lot of work, the 10k with a specific resistor is much faster.

 

[stokes]

To hijack: does anybody have the part number of the bias pot they used? I have installed one in my amp but it is not ideal.

I have done this mod to a lot of Boogies over the years and use either a 50k or 100k cermet pot,depending on the value of the resistor I am changing.Just the pot,no fixed resistor between the pot and ground.A cermet pot will take the dc voltage much better than a standard volume type pot,this type of pot doesnt like dc voltage,which is why your volume pot gets scrathy when a coupling cap feeding one gets leaky.It will eventually burn the trace where the wiper in the pot is sitting.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Actually, that part number was a direct Fender replacement for the same pot that is in my 66 Pro Reverb.

As for standard pots, you have to use a good one, not an alpha or the ones that Weber sells.




As for no series resistance to ground, is this something that you do on a customer's amp, or just your own? I have had some really bad experiences where a customer saw a pot, even though there was not a knob on it, and adjusted it many times. Then, he bitched to me about the pot not doing anything. :lol: That's when I spun the amp around and show the nice red tubes. :lol:




Do you have a part number for the cermet pot? That does sound interesting.

 

[stokes]

As for no series resistance to ground, is this something that you do on a customer's amp, or just your own? I have had some really bad experiences where a customer saw a pot, even though there was not a knob on it, and adjusted it many times. Then, he bitched to me about the pot not doing anything. :lol: That's when I spun the amp around and show the nice red tubes. :lol:
Monsta,I know where you are coming from on that,but I like to use a pot that will cover a wide enough spectrum of bias voltage so as to accomodate a wide selection of tubes.If I replace a 25k resistor I use a 50k pot,50k resistor with a 100k pot,so the original bias voltage is right in the middle of the pots range.I have found that with the fixed resistor in place you cant always find the proper range with some tubes.Quite often even with the low value resistor in place if somebody monkeys with the pot you could end up redplating anyway,not as severe of course,but it is possible.I aint saying you shouldnt use it,I just dont find it necassary,if you feel the need to use it as a safety margin,by all means it is always best to go the safest route you can.As far as a customer monkeying with it,I always explain how and what I do to their amp,and how to adjust it if they change tubes,if they are capable,always set it for the least current flow first and adjust up into the range they need,and not to install tubes without the pot in the far "safe" range.Hey,if a guy is going to poke around in a chassis without knowing what he is doing,he will probably find a way to foul up his gear somehow,or get a shock that will tell him to back out of there,ya know?We cant watch these guys all the time.I use only the cermet type for the reasons mentioned before.Even a good quality volume type pot doesnt take dc very well and the fact that a bias pot sits in one spot for a very long time,makes it more vulnerable to burning the trace in that spot.The smaller square trim pot with the screw adjustment is easy to glue onto a circuit board inside the amp out of the way of curious fingers.I know some people like to have the pot accessible without opening the chassis and makes it easier to bias when you need to,but there are too many a#$holes out there who like to turn things "just to see what will happen".As for a part # I dont have one offhand,but if you go to Mouser and search for "cermet pot" you will see a lot of different ones.I prefer the "multi-turn type",makes for a much smoother and easier adjustment.