Help with tubes Roadster

[bandit2013]

What RoadKing version do you have? I or II ? and when it comes to the progressive linkage system, the Roadster does not have that feature.

The Roadking II and the Roadster are very similar from what I recall others saying in reference to the preamp section (not sure if there was a previous Roadster model based of the Roadking I).

I would try turning off the FX loops on the RK with the toggle switch on the back and use the channel masters for setting the volume to see if you can get the CH1 and CH2 loudness up. Check your gain level on CH1 and CH2, if you have them too low they will influence the volume of the channel. The obvious will happen if they are set higher than 1pm as that will get the amp into clipping. I would try increasing the gain just a bit and see if that helps. Also check the progressive link on the back of each channel and confirm you are running the same settings for all 4 channels. Sometimes the rotary knobs can be cleaned just by rotating the control from selection to selection (most switches of this type are self cleaning as the wiper pole is surrounded by pressure on both sides and movement of the wiper will clean the surface of the switch contacts. No chemicals are needed unless it is really bad. Most chemical cleaners tend to remove the lubricants in the switches or pots, so it may depend on construction, that would be a last resort thing and not recommended as general maintenance. (caution on cleaners or de-oxit if used, never spray that into a live circuit, that stuff is a last resort if normal use does not correct the issue, many of the products used in cleaners are Ether based organic compounds and are very flammable). Just a few turns of the knob should clean the contact surface from friction. Check and see if the progressive link is actually switching. I would try each setting on all channels and compare the differences. That amp has a lot of features to it. There may be some other differences I am not aware of as I do not have the RoadKing so my help may be limited at best regarding that one..

 

[tzoranski]

bandit2013,

As always, thanks for your suggestions. I have the Road King II. It's a 2010. I did try most of your suggestions the first time however some of them I didn't so well see if any of them work. The Road King is very much like the Roadster except it has the progressive linkage, a second FX loop and two speaker outs instead of one. Everything else is about the same. True their are a lots of modes and switches but it's not confusing so I'm sure I'm not doing anything wrong.

I'll try reaching out to Boogie support and see what they say about it. They are usually very helpful when trouble shooting an issue. I'll also start a new tread on here to see if anyone else has any ideas. Their are a lot of people on this forum like you with wells of knowledge. I've gotten some great advice and information on a wide range of issue so hopefully someone will have some suggestions that lead to a solution. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[bandit2013]

Mesa is a good resource for diagnosing issues. I can only help to a certain point but tube swaps and such are considered maintenance tasks.
Based on my Roadster, I found CH1 and CH2 to be serving with plenty of volume to compete with the other two channels.

The only notable volume drop I have ever encountered is with the vintage and raw settings on CH3 or 4 that would be expected due to the change in gain which also impacts the volume level. Gain is generally at the front end of the circuits and the channel volume is usually at the tail end of the channel circuit. With some amps it may be more than obvious with the affect the gain has on output volume (RA100 for example) It may not be all that apparent with the Roadster but there is a relationship.

Good luck with a resolve on the CH1/CH2 volume drop issue. If you have used old tubes from one amp to the other, it may be probable that one was used in a cathode follower position which does lead to weakening of the triode in half of the tube over time when the amp is used. I would suspect either V1 or V2 to be the two tubes to recheck with one that is either new or known to be good (one that was not used in the V3 or V5 positions).

 

[tzoranski]

bandit2013,

Well, I tried some of your suggestions this weekend and the good news is the Road King is working, I repeat the Road King is working! And the F'ed up thing is it wasn't even bad tubes. I'm pretty sure both sets of tubes in the Road King and the Roadster were fine. It ended up being the Mini Amp Gizmo I use to switch the roadster channels via the G-system. Weirdly enough when I would connect the G-system to the RK I always forgot to unplug the MAG from the G which was also connected to the RS. So when the G was connected to the RK there was still a connection from the G to the RS on stand by obviously. It must have been confusing both amps somehow. When the RK was connected I would have issues with CH 1 and 2 and when the RS was connected I would have issues with Ch 3 and 4.

This weekend I took the G and MAG out of the loop. I turned the FX loops off of both amps which takes the Solo and Master out as well and just used the foot controllers and everything worked fine. Then I slow introduced everything back into the loop and both amps worked fine. Crazy. The Roadster still needed new tubes anyway so I'm glad I did that. I'll just keep the old ones as spares for now. Thanks again for all you help and suggestions. I can't tell you how much it help me. I'm fairly new to some of this and the signal flow can become confusing after a while. Not like when I was growing up and play some pedal into the front of an amp. What a different life that was.

 

[bandit2013]

That is good to hear. It is always best to reduce any diagnosis down to the basics. What is plugged into the amp (including the FX loop but it is one thing I do not use that often so it is far from my thoughts). Enjoy the new tubes....

 

[tzoranski]

bandit2013,

I am so enjoying the new tubes. I definitely wont go 9 years between a re-tube ever again. I guess I'll keep my ear out for when I start to hear a change or maybe every couple of years just re-tube it. I know tubes are made to work for 1000's of hours but somewhere along the way they really lose there color. My amp really started to loose it's definition and tone years ago. I figure I put about 1000 hour a year at the most on them.

Since your a Roadster owner I have another question for you. Do you ever use the solo function on the amp? I have a G-System running through the effects loop so my loop is active which engages the master volume and solo. On Ch 3 and 4 I keep the channel master up really high and the master volume really low if I'm playing in my bedroom. In order to have Ch 1 at the same volume with 3 and 4 and not have it break up at all I've been using the solo feature as a way of getting more volume and keeping it really clean. The problem I'm have is when I switch from Ch 3 and 4 to Ch 1 I get a loud pop. Going from Ch 1 to 3 or 4 doesn't give me a pop. If I don't use the solo then the pop is also gone. It clearly seems like its coming from the solo being engaged. I wonder why I would be getting such a loud pop.

 

[bandit2013]

I barely use the solo feature on any of my amps that have that option. I have tired the function just to hear the effect but have not made use of it. Cool idea to use that to balance out the clean the gain channels. For some odd reason I always found the clean channels to be louder than the gain channels if I am not using the Modern voice on CH3, CH4.

Channel pops, just about all of my amps do the channel pop except for two models, RA100 and the TC-50 but I doubt they are prone to the issue. Since relays and switches are used to switch audio circuits, there is that risk of getting the noise especially with circuits that have capacitors as their main element (tone stacks) and in some cases any inductance in the circuit that changes abruptly. This causes a change in current in the signal path if associated channels do not have the same operating state or some initial charge in their associated circuitry, it may actually happen if a charge potential builds up in a circuit or a lack of charge in that circuit when the channel is changed. The Roadster is not prone to the pop but it can be minimize or rendered non existent if you cycle all of the channels and modes on the footswitch control once the amp is taken out of standby or some have success with cycling the channels after the amp has warmed up and is still in standby. I generally found a couple of cycles of the channels and even the mute eliminates the popping noise for the entire time I use the amp. Mark V, and JP-2C, have this issue too. The JP-2C is a bit different due to the method how it switches channels since it is all handled by a midi controller that strobes a mute signal during channel changes. Mark V, Roadster and the Roadking all use the same switch logic control which is supposed to have the mute dynamic during channel changes to eliminate the electrical discharge or sudden spike in signal due to impedance changes between channels and other circuits. I believe there is a sticky note in the forums on the Roadster or just a general note about pops and such and ways others have found to defeat the issue.

 

[tzoranski]

I learned that little solo trick from a fellow Road King owner. I also always play Ch 3 and 4 in the modern mode. I keep the channel volume at about 12 o'clock on ch 3 and 4 and then keep the master volume really low. That way I can really get the amp to scream and even feedback a bit when I'm playing in my apartment at low volumes. The only problem with this is I can't get the Ch 1 to sound clean and equal to the channel volumes of 3 and 4 without using some type of boost or the solo function which gives me the pops when going from Ch 3 or 4 to Ch 1. I don't seem to get the pops going from Ch 1 to 3 or 4.

I did read the sticky about the cycling through the channels and and modes on the footswitch controller. I don't use the footswitch, instead I'm using the Mini Amp Gizmo which is connected to my G-system via a midi cable and into the foot controller input on the Roadster via special cable. I did try cycling through the channels and and mode using the MAG with my amp in standby but that didn't solve the solo pop issues. I'm gonna reach out to the Mesa support to see what they say. Lately I've just turned down the solo really low and turned down the channel volumes of Ch 3 and 4 to even the volume out with Ch 1. Hopefully there will be another way to do what I want since the Ch3 and 4 sound better when the channel volume is turned up higher. Maybe it's using a boost pedal for Ch 1 instead. Not sure that would work any better.

 

[domct203]

I learned that little solo trick from a fellow Road King owner. I also always play Ch 3 and 4 in the modern mode. I keep the channel volume at about 12 o'clock on ch 3 and 4 and then keep the master volume really low. That way I can really get the amp to scream and even feedback a bit when I'm playing in my apartment at low volumes. The only problem with this is I can't get the Ch 1 to sound clean and equal to the channel volumes of 3 and 4 without using some type of boost or the solo function which gives me the pops when going from Ch 3 or 4 to Ch 1. I don't seem to get the pops going from Ch 1 to 3 or 4.

I did read the sticky about the cycling through the channels and and modes on the footswitch controller. I don't use the footswitch, instead I'm using the Mini Amp Gizmo which is connected to my G-system via a midi cable and into the foot controller input on the Roadster via special cable. I did try cycling through the channels and and mode using the MAG with my amp in standby but that didn't solve the solo pop issues. I'm gonna reach out to the Mesa support to see what they say. Lately I've just turned down the solo really low and turned down the channel volumes of Ch 3 and 4 to even the volume out with Ch 1. Hopefully there will be another way to do what I want since the Ch3 and 4 sound better when the channel volume is turned up higher. Maybe it's using a boost pedal for Ch 1 instead. Not sure that would work any better.

Not only will the clean channel have a hard time keeping up with Modern Mode's channel master at noon, but your FX Loop send level will be pretty hot compared to the clean channel as well.

When my Roadster is at band volume (Output ~11:00) I find that with a good strong clean tone (gain & master around noon) that Vintage mode in CH 3 balances at about 11:30 on the master, Modern mode in CH 4 around 10:30.