help with recto versions....

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That was a great post silverwulf thanks!

That makes a lot of sense to me and i want to think in that terms in the studio have the right amp not something that does it approximatelly and live i just need like you good OD and decent cleans.

But in that case you said thats why you opt for a dual recto vs roadster or roadking. but that doesnt explain why it couldnt be a triple.

I guess i will have to wait for the document? :)

Oh and by the way because of the reasons you talked about and that i totally understand, when i mentionned roadster and roadking i was only reffering to the sound of all these amps in respect to OD (not all the additional features). So i guess by your answer it means that they have the same OD sound as the dual?

I know you mustve put a lot of effort into your guide so if you dont feel like answering i can wait for it :D thanks!
 
rispsira said:
But in that case you said thats why you opt for a dual recto vs roadster or roadking. but that doesnt explain why it couldnt be a triple.

Here's my opinion on the Triple... and it's not a very experienced so take it with a grain of salt. It's entirely based on a rhythm guitarists perspective, so lead guitarists may disagree with some of what I'm about to say.

In my opinion, Modern high gain works best with lots of headroom. You don't want much in the way of power amp compression since it'll smooth out the dynamic response of modern, which means your rhythm work won't punch as hard when you're chugging away on power chords.

To put this into perspective, the Dual Rectifier is not very loud for a 100w amp. Don't get me wrong, it's still really f*cking loud, but compared to other 100w amps (ie, Marshall) I don't think it's very loud. The trick is that with a Marshall you can drive the piss out of the power section since obtaining some compression actually makes the amp sound better, so your 100w Marshall can scream away at 120-150w and you'll sound awesome doing it.

The Recto on the other hand needs headroom. Modern high gain does not sound great with the 100w power section being driven for 120-150w. Driving the power section that hard creates a fair bit of compression, and that compression will smooth out the punchy response of modern high gain. Thus, as the volume increases the rhythm response will become more and more mushy. You'll start to get more of that "Recto wall of mud" thing going on that people complain about.

Enter the Triple Rectifier. Since the Triple has more headroom you can use it at the same volume as the Dual without overdriving and compressing the power section as hard. You can turn the amp up to 120-150w and maintain that aggressive, punchy modern high gain tone you were getting out of the Dual when it was running around 80-100w. You can now match the other guitarists Marshall without needing to drive the piss out of your power tubes.

To add to all this... lower frequencies take more power to amplify than higher ones. Thus, if you're using a 7 string tuned to A or B you'll need more headroom if you want to play with the same dynamic and punchy response you would have with a 6 string tuned to D or E.

The catch is... most Marshall users never get to use their amp with the master volume running nearly flat out, and the average Recto user doesn't need 120-150w of headroom to keep a tight, punchy sounding rhythm tone, so the extra headroom is not only lost on them, but may in fact be counter productive since the average Recto user will never be able to play a Triple loud enough to achieve any compression out of the amp.

Anyway, this need for headroom and subsequent lack of compression is why I think you'll generally see a Triple Rectifier in the hands of a rhythm guitarist, and usually one that's using modern high gain rather than vintage high gain and/or using a detuned guitar of some sort. Lead players will obviously have a different perspective, and as I lead player I actually prefer to run my Dual in tube rectified mode (vintage high gain) since it adds more compression and smooths out my lead tone for a less abrasive, more singing quality. However, as a rhythm player when I switch to modern high gain I switch also to silicone diode... even at moderate volumes that extra bit of headroom makes all the difference in the world when it comes to aggressive, in your face guitar tone.

Your mileage may vary, but that's my opinion on it.
 
Yes it IS a great post! Thank you for taking the time to answer all my stupid concerns :oops:

mm.. this is having me thinking about two things mainly:

- To be honest the reason why i am interested in a recto is to have only one sound: a crazy modern riff sound. I will switch to mark V heads for all the other sounds. So the recto would only be used for a certain riff in a whole song that would need this aggressive sound, no clean or solo tones needed or even mark heavy rythm tones from the recto.So that would mean that i would need a triple recto according to what you just said. you may wonder why i asked about the roadking and roadster since i only need one sound. The reason is i was wondering if that ONE sound has been or is different in those two amps beasides all the other extra features that i wouldnt use but would be willing to spend extra money for the one rectifier sound i would use if it was deemed unanimously better in any of those two.
Still all those amps are dual rectifiers. But according to that new onformation you kindly took the time to explain, i would need a triple.
But from what i understood it would be prefferable i get the two channels? And theres still that issue of revisions..
Why are you making it so hard mesaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa lol

- On the other hand i agree about lower notes needing more power to be generated (which is why bassists have crazy amps. check out the Titan my bassist has :s) And you were right on spot when you mentionned playing a 7 strings tuned down a whole step which is what i do even though i play progressive metal. What i will need to do is try that tuning with the mark amps when i receive them, to see if its still tight enough. God i hope it is....

Thanks!!
 
I beg to differ by far.

I used to use a DC-3 and the other guitarist in my band at the time had a Marshall JCM2000 Dual Super Lead 100. The DC-3 blew the marshall away in every way shape and form. the Marshall just could not keep the low end together, and when I cranked the Marshall up to what would be way beyond a "normal" playing volume, the DC-3 was still only around 4.

Mesa's 30 watt amp blew away a Marshall 100 watt amp

screamingdaisy said:
To put this into perspective, the Dual Rectifier is not very loud for a 100w amp. Don't get me wrong, it's still really f*cking loud, but compared to other 100w amps (ie, Marshall) I don't think it's very loud. The trick is that with a Marshall you can drive the piss out of the power section since obtaining some compression actually makes the amp sound better, so your 100w Marshall can scream away at 120-150w and you'll sound awesome doing it.
 
colemaneuclid said:
I beg to differ by far.

I used to use a DC-3 and the other guitarist in my band at the time had a Marshall JCM2000 Dual Super Lead 100. The DC-3 blew the marshall away in every way shape and form. the Marshall just could not keep the low end together, and when I cranked the Marshall up to what would be way beyond a "normal" playing volume, the DC-3 was still only around 4.

Mesa's 30 watt amp blew away a Marshall 100 watt amp

That's nice, but I'm not comparing a DC-3 to a JCM2000.
 
rispsira said:
Yes it IS a great post! Thank you for taking the time to answer all my stupid concerns :oops:

mm.. this is having me thinking about two things mainly:

- To be honest the reason why i am interested in a recto is to have only one sound: a crazy modern riff sound. I will switch to mark V heads for all the other sounds. So the recto would only be used for a certain riff in a whole song that would need this aggressive sound, no clean or solo tones needed or even mark heavy rythm tones from the recto.So that would mean that i would need a triple recto according to what you just said. you may wonder why i asked about the roadking and roadster since i only need one sound. The reason is i was wondering if that ONE sound has been or is different in those two amps beasides all the other extra features that i wouldnt use but would be willing to spend extra money for the one rectifier sound i would use if it was deemed unanimously better in any of those two.
Still all those amps are dual rectifiers. But according to that new onformation you kindly took the time to explain, i would need a triple.
But from what i understood it would be prefferable i get the two channels? And theres still that issue of revisions..
Why are you making it so hard mesaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa lol

- On the other hand i agree about lower notes needing more power to be generated (which is why bassists have crazy amps. check out the Titan my bassist has :s) And you were right on spot when you mentionned playing a 7 strings tuned down a whole step which is what i do even though i play progressive metal. What i will need to do is try that tuning with the mark amps when i receive them, to see if its still tight enough. God i hope it is....

Thanks!!
If you're just looking for that one special sound, I'd say hands down go for the 2 channel Triple. That's what I've got and believe me, what you're looking for, these amps will deliver! Just make sure of two things: one, you're using the right speaker cab and two, you have the right tubes in it.

Personally, I've found a NOS RFT sounds incredible in V1 when matched with JJs for the rest of the pre section. Pair that with good 6L6s for a deeper scooped sound or EL34s for a more aggressive mid sound and you'll be in Recto Heaven.
 
Thanks for the reply man!! u mention dthe right speaker cab so i have a very important question!

All my cabs are 4X12 but my old one was a standard rectifier, then i bought a traditionnal (stilleto) and was blown away with how much better it works with mark amps!!! and the speakers arent even broken in!!

So i ordered a second to have a stereo rig. The thing is i couldnt justify keeping the standard so i am about to sell it. but i am scared the result wouldnt be the same with the recto. Which cab do you use??

Also i have found a used triple recto locally so no shipping or taxes for about 1200 or 1500. yes it makes a difference but i cant remember the price exactly.

Only thing is i bet its a three channel recto (i will make sure). So what i understand from all of you is its well worth it to get the 2 channels!
What about revision number for the 2 channel triple recto?? what should i look for?
 
I always felt Rectifiers sounded better with Rectifier cabs. There are some that like the Traditional cabs over the Rectifier. Again, I think it's best that you try out as many revisions as possible w/ the cabs you would use in a live setting. Since your only interested in one sound, personally I'd recommend a two channel that meets your tonal needs. Regardless of rev. What I like about the older 2 CH you may prefer a "newer" 2 ch.

With the two channels you could channel clone and have one channel modern and one channel vintage. This would give you two distinct heay rhythmn tones.
 
rispsira said:
Thanks for the reply man!! u mention dthe right speaker cab so i have a very important question!

All my cabs are 4X12 but my old one was a standard rectifier, then i bought a traditionnal (stilleto) and was blown away with how much better it works with mark amps!!! and the speakers arent even broken in!!

So i ordered a second to have a stereo rig. The thing is i couldnt justify keeping the standard so i am about to sell it. but i am scared the result wouldnt be the same with the recto. Which cab do you use??

I don't like the Recto Standard cabs. I had one before and I found it tracked really loose. It imparts that "Recto sag" onto every amp you plug into it. I myself use Orange cabs. They're about the same size as a Recto Traditional (now called the Stiletto) cab, but a few inches deeper so a bit more bass response. Given the choice between the Recto Standard and Traditional/Stiletto I'd go with the Traditional/Stilletto. Faster response, and the Recto doesn't need more bottom anyway.

Only thing is i bet its a three channel recto (i will make sure). So what i understand from all of you is its well worth it to get the 2 channels!
What about revision number for the 2 channel triple recto?? what should i look for?

I'd lean towards a Revision F or G, but that's because I like darker tones and I want a functioning clean channel.

You know... one of the cool things about your Mk IV/Recto setup will be that you can use either channel on your Recto for high gain riffing... so you could dial in one channel for vintage high gain and the other for modern high gain and switch to whatever rhythm tone suits the music better. That'd be a pretty cool way to go. I usually find myself using modern for metal as it crunches up more and stays tighter, and vintage for rock as it sounds a little more natural and flows better from chord to chord when playing rock rhythm (ie, not chugga chugga stuff).

On a side note... have you considered a Triaxis/2:90 or Triaxis/Stratagy 500 rig? It may not perfectly emulate a Mk IV and Recto, but it'll get you most of the way there and then some. It'll also be smaller, eliminate the need for A/B switching, and having access to all those presets via MIDI will give you huge flexibility in a live rig.
 
Don't have much time to write, but a quick side note - if you're buying a 2 Channel Triple Recto, you'll only find them in Revision F and G. The first documented Triple is around the R0700-ish mark, which is Revision F.
 
clutch71 said:
I always felt Rectifiers sounded better with Rectifier cabs. There are some that like the Traditional cabs over the Rectifier. Again, I think it's best that you try out as many revisions as possible w/ the cabs you would use in a live setting. Since your only interested in one sound, personally I'd recommend a two channel that meets your tonal needs. Regardless of rev. What I like about the older 2 CH you may prefer a "newer" 2 ch.

With the two channels you could channel clone and have one channel modern and one channel vintage. This would give you two distinct heay rhythmn tones.


Cloning to two different high gain settings/mode.. COOL lol i didnt think about that thanks man!!
 
Thank you for the help Screamingdaisy. Yes i actually have a triaxis/290 that im keeping as a second rig. i might buy a THD hotplate and move this rig to my house for proactise. Or keep it as a backup for live etc i thought id would be helpful (though i could really need the money haha)

As fo rthe rig you are helping me with its not yet built i am planning it. It will consist of two mark V heads if i ever get them ;( haha and was excited about adding a recto to it to cover that sound.

Then plenty of time spent in the gym so hopefully i can get to the concerts with all that stuff....
Which is why i decided to keep the TA/20. never know

But to recap i guess you all agree with going with a two channel instead of three and according to silverwulf (thank you silverwulf) the 2 channel trple are all F or G which you agree are good sounding revisions right?

Btw any of you know about the effects loops of the 2 channel triple? is it parallel or series? Does it suck like i heard haha?

Although i might not have the need for it for that one dry modern sound
 
The 2 Channel Triple Revision F's all have serial loops and a slightly different circuit than Revision G. The Revision G models almost all have parallel loops, with the rare exception of a small run that were produced using leftover "Pre-500" chassis (such as the Revision G Dual in my sig featuring a serial loop) that shipped that way from the factory.

Revision F Triples tend to be rare also. I'm sure there's a quite a handul of them floating around, but I've only seen about 8-10 of them over a course of the last 5 years or so pop up. I will say the Revision F Triple is a massive sounding Recto.
 
rispsira said:
Btw any of you know about the effects loops of the 2 channel triple? is it parallel or series? Does it suck like i heard haha?

Although i might not have the need for it for that one dry modern sound

Rev F has a series loop. Rev G has a parallel loop. The parallel loop can be modified to series if you really want to, though you'll loose the solo boost effect if you do so.

With my Rev F having the loop on causes the amp to loose some of it's extreme bottom end response and adds some midrange. I suppose some would call this tone suck, but I think it actually sounds better this way. The lost bass is that very low frequency rumble you can't hear in a band mix and the overall effect is that the amp feels tighter and more aggressive.
 
Thank you all!

One last question. I have everything narrowed to the 2 channels triple rectifier with the rev F or G and modify it to series if it most probably has parallel loop.

But i noticed that some have the silver plate and some the black plate. Does that mean anything or will it be enough what i have narrowed it down to already?

Thanks!!
 
Silverwulf said:
It's purely a cosmetic thing.


Great one less thing to think about! (i was scared it would be a fender kinda thing if you know what i mean haha!)

Thank you for all the help :)
 
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