Help with my dual

[chimpinatux]

Rectos are meant to be high gain amps right?

i know the learning curve with guys getting these amps is meant to be quite steep, but ive had a huge fiddle around already, sure i dont expect to have found a great tone but im concerned about something else.

It really doesnt seem to have much gain on tap, and i am talking about red channel, modern mode (though i have tried everything else) and im not talking about achieving a ridiculously over the top distortion, but something that at least gives a decentish lead tone, all im getting atm is a brittle harsh and grainy tone.

Ive tried cranking it up a bit too (within reason at home) and this hasnt yielded much, but i might have noticed that it isnt as loud as id expect 100w to be

Is it possible that it could have been shipped with dodgy tubes at the end of their life? perhaps dying preamp tubes?


on the other hand i dont know if anybody here could direct me to some clips where the lead channel is shown , with perhaps fairly neutral settings on, so i can compare what thats like to mine and whether this is a legit problem or not

thanks

 

[b0nkersx]

Rectos are meant to be high gain amps right?

Not as high as, say, a Peavey 5150/6505.

It really doesnt seem to have much gain on tap, and i am talking about red channel, modern mode (though i have tried everything else) and im not talking about achieving a ridiculously over the top distortion, but something that at least gives a decentish lead tone, all im getting atm is a brittle harsh and grainy tone.

Red modern shouldn't be your first stop for lead sounds. Try red vintage or orange vintage. For leads, try turning up the mids, keep the presence down a bit (around 9-11:00), and work with the treble knob and your guitars tone knob. I like to take the gain as high as 3:00 in vintage mode for leads. Try hard-bypassing the loop on the rear panel. Tube/diode is up to you, but I prefer diode.

Ive tried cranking it up a bit too (within reason at home) and this hasnt yielded much, but i might have noticed that it isnt as loud as id expect 100w to be

How loud were you expecting it to be? Mine rumbles my house at around 9:00 with a decent amount of bass added.

Is it possible that it could have been shipped with dodgy tubes at the end of their life? perhaps dying preamp tubes?

Probably not the case if it were ordered direct and brand new for you. If it were a floor model at a store, maybe. Certainly a possibility though.

on the other hand i dont know if anybody here could direct me to some clips where the lead channel is shown , with perhaps fairly neutral settings on, so i can compare what thats like to mine and whether this is a legit problem or not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfahRmsLfJU
Go to about 2:45 for his lead playing. You may not be able to achieve these sounds, but they at least demonstrate the amplifiers capabilities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6czCFCMOtpE
Vintage/modern lead with a strat.

If none of my advice helps you enough, you may want to look into purchasing one of these (Fulltone OCD or Maxon OD808). I have both, and they both are amazing in what they can do for any amplifier. I'd highly recommend them even if you do find what you're looking for.
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Maxon-OD808-Overdrive?sku=155025
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fulltone-OCD-Obsessive-Compulsive-Drive-Overdrive-Guitar-Effects-Pedal?sku=475656

 

[chimpinatux]

I have a TS9 already, in fact i can only get a decent tone with that

I'm thinking it could have indeed been a floor model, it was from an online dealer that also has a store so thats a possibility...

In regards to volume, at 9:00 on mine, with channel volumes at noon, its certainly making some noise, but not rattling the window its right next to

I think i might just retube and see what happens, just out of interest would dying preamp tubes cause a gain drop?

 

[espboogie123]

These suckers get loud!! You shouldn't have a problem with volume. Master output on 9 - 11 is plenty. It's quite possible your tubes are in the death tracks. What are your settings?

 

[chimpinatux]

These suckers get loud!! You shouldn't have a problem with volume. Master output on 9 - 11 is plenty. It's quite possible your tubes are in the death tracks. What are your settings?

atm, im mainly using:
Red channel:

channel volume - noon
presence - 10
gain - change between 1 and 3
bass - noon
mids - 1
treble - 2

this is on power rectifiers, and bold

also have keeley modded ts9 with tone at noon, gain at 0 , and level all the way

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

Channel volume at noon with what master setting ?

With a bypassed loop, this should be devastating at home, really

 

[chimpinatux]

Channel volume at noon with what master setting ?

With a bypassed loop, this should be devastating at home, really

master output at 9:00....

shakes stuff around it a little bit but nothing i would define as devastating.. and thats in my tiny bedroom

I'm thinking full retube is the way to go

 

[espboogie123]

Ya dude, I run modern mode channel vol at like 10:00
Master output ranges from 9-11:00 for crazy volumes.

I agree to freshen up them tubes... With floor models, you get alot of peeps constantly turning on and jamming throughout the day especially if its a busy place. Some genius people sometimes tend to leave the amps on after their done with it.

 

[erectifier]

definitely sounds like a retubing is the way to go, i dont think ive ever heard someone say there wasn't enough gain on tap. also try putting the master and channel volume about the same (i.e. 10-10 instead of 9-12) i really dont like the sound of my single recto when i have the channel volume really high and the output low.

 

[volatileNoise]

Doesn't sound like tubes are the issue, the thing will start to get loud from 10 upwards on the output, I run the output on noon at rehearsals with a loud band, and at most gigs. Turn it up before doing your dough on a set of tubes, and they generally don't do the saturated type of gain you are talking about, maybe with a set of EL34's they would though, I am not sure as I have never tried them.

 

[GuitarGuy503]

Definately sounds like the tubes are on their way out. Try retubing the amp with a high gain tube kit and then report back to us.....

 

[volatileNoise]

master output at 9:00....

shakes stuff around it a little bit

then it doesn't sound likely to be tubes unless the thing has been used for several years previously?

9.00 is not loud, though it can seem loud when you are not used to cranking the output in a full band situation. But if it is shaking things a little at 9.00 it sounds pretty well like the output should be as strong as to be expected.

Although it is hard for any of us to judge, without actually hearing it in person or via a decent sound/video clip...

 

[YellowJacket]

What guitar / pups are you using? I saw someone with a budget strat knockoff try using my head and the pickups were so weak he was getting a clean tone with the gain dimed on the red channel.
Vintage mode on orange / channel 2 is definitely the choice for lead. Modern is great for a tight and brutal rhythm tone!

I have a Gibson Les Paul Standard with Bare Knuckle Rebel Yells and I can get PLENTY of gain saturation, more and more as I turn up. I find as I turn the amp up, I have to turn the gain down to maintain clarity.

 

[Authorized Boogie]

Chimp -

Is the Loop ON or Bypassed?

If it's ON and the send level is set low, this might be your reason for the amp not ripping your head off a bit at the settings you mentioned. With Loop ON, the Send Level on the back should be set at at least 12:00 (halfway) and you can sometimes ride it up a little bit to around 1:00-2:00. Higher than that is not suggested.

Regardless of whether the amp is new or not, if it got shipped, it may have had a preamp tube get bonked on the journey and while the tube still works, it's lost 5-10% of its gain potential and the amp can sound pretty weak - both gain and volume wise.

If the amp was new and even if it was a floor model, I would expect that your problem is only 1, MAYBE 2 preamp tubes that have gone weak. If the amp is used and the seller can't provide any tube info for you to get a reference for how used the tubes may be, THEN I would consider replacing the whole set and seeing if that fixes it. If the tubes aren't that old, I would consider changing the preamp tubes one at a time to see if replacing one of them brings the amp to life.

Curious what you find out.

Authorized Boogie

 

[mikey383]

One of the things I found when going from a solid state head, to a Crate Blue Voodoo head, to a Dual Rec is that the Dual doesn't have nearly as much gain as the other two did. For a high gain head, it lacks the brutal gain of some other amps, especially solid state. I learned to make it sound brutal by the way I pick. I'm a better player now because of that. But it has tone, whereas the others really didn't.

Like Authorized Boogie said, make sure your send level is at least at noon if you have the loop on. I ran mine completely dimed and the mix level was at 100% all the time.

 

[joe web]

which kind of cabinet are you using?
1x12? 2x12? 4x12?

i´m running my recto into a 4x12 and set the master between 9 and 10 o´clock, with the red set to vintage - the channel volume is set at 1 o´clock, the orange set to modern - channel volume at about 11 o´clock - send level at 11-12 o`clock (set the g-major I/O that there is no volume change while turning on and off the loop) and this thing is loud!
but maybe it depends on your guitar/pup combination or your playing as well.

short story:
a friend of mine tried one of my guitars with my setup and asked for more gain, it really sounded thin as he played. i said: "you don´t need more gain it´s enough, just play right."
he looked at me with ???? in his eyes, so i took the guitar and played it - guess what, there was enough gain. after that he understood what i meant.
it´s not only about turning the gain up more and more, those amps react to your style of playing so sensitive, that´s amazing. i like this behavior, it allows me to go from nearly clean to high gain by turning down the guitars volume a bit (not much) and controlling my picking style.

 

[erectifier]

i like this behavior, it allows me to go from nearly clean to high gain by turning down the guitars volume a bit (not much) and controlling my picking style.

this is the true benefit of having a high gain amp, but it also depends on your type of pickups and what pots you use. its definitely tricky to master but with practice it becomes second nature

 

[screamingdaisy]

I think i might just retube and see what happens, just out of interest would dying preamp tubes cause a gain drop?

Worn out power tubes can cause a big drop in volume and a general dulling of the tone that sounds similar to a loss in gain because all the treble detail/harmonics are lost.

I don't know how old that amp is, but if it's been sitting on a store floor for a year with every retard in town playing it with the bass and gain on 10 it could be a little stressful on the tubes.

One of the things I found when going from a solid state head, to a Crate Blue Voodoo head, to a Dual Rec is that the Dual doesn't have nearly as much gain as the other two did. For a high gain head, it lacks the brutal gain of some other amps, especially solid state. I learned to make it sound brutal by the way I pick. I'm a better player now because of that. But it has tone, whereas the others really didn't.

I had the same sort of issue... I was used to distortion from a distortion pedal into a solid state amp where the pedal does all the hard work. With a tube amp you have to adjust to manipulating distortion, compression, speaker breakup...

The hardest thing was to learn to dig in. I'd learned to play guitar using one of those wimpy ultra thin picks, which was plenty of oomph when plugged into a DOD Grunge pedal. When I switched to a tube amp I also switched to heavy picks... I found I need to be able to dig in and lay back to get the most out of any tube amp.

The cool thing was that the first time I ever fired my Dual Recto up I dialled in some of the suggested settings and turn the master volume up to something stupid... like 7 or something like that because I'd heard Plexi's sounded good on 7. It was glorious... I felt like my guitar strings were liquid electricity. I've been chasing that dragon ever since....

 

[YellowJacket]

The fun of tube amps is the vast expressive capability at ones fingertips. I tend to run my gain high with hot pickups but I turn the volume knob down and play hard for crunch and a phat rhythm. I use the volume boost on the guitar for searing solos. The extra gain allows me to use the light picking style necessary for fast and clean playing. Wacking the strings is great for riffing but it induces tension and slows things up for solos.