Help me make my Boogie's signal carry!

[boogie1]

Hey, I posted a similar post a couple weeks ago but didn't get a lot of feedback (no pun intended!) on this issue...........

In my quest for Holy Grail Tone, I realized that my sound up close was decent. Yet, when I stepped out about 30 feet, it kind of sucked.

Here's what I am using:

Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifer head
Genz Benz G-flex 2x12 cabinet (lots of bottom end- cabinet has 4 bass ports)
Assorted pedals on pedalboard
Sennheiser E609 mike, miked slightly to side of cone

The thing I am trying to accomplish is to make the sound carry. Last gig I added more highs, took out some lows and added presence and midrange. It was better, but still not enough to put a sh#t-eatin' grin on my face. A buddy of mine suggested replacing pre-amp tubes, said he had the same problem and that solved it for him. (Also uses a Dual Rec....)

The amp is only about a year old and has only been used for gigs. I think it's unlikely a tube is bad, but not impossible. Has anybody had similar issues and have any advice to offer?

 

[playdosboogies]

In my experiences, keeping the mids up past noon and juicing the highs help a lot..It seems weird, but sometimes the sound that sounds great dialed in at home get lost in the mix. And sometimes the sound that cuts/sits best with a band sounds lousy when you are playing alone...Go figure.

 

[woody777]

Past 30 feet is for the PA... make your tone sound good from cab to mic and let the soundman do the rest.

 

[mikey383]

Woody has the right idea.


The whole problem is that an amp will sound different when your ear is in different places. Move 30 feet out and to the left and it will sound totally different as you start moving toward the right. The frequencies will be more focused in one area than the other.

Try adjusting the amp from about 5 -10 feet out, and see how that sounds.

 

[DeFrag]

Remember if an amp is 30 feet away from your ears, you've effectively just added a 30ms delay to your sound.

 

[justanotherguitarist]

I dont know how you figured that DeFrag. I mean yeah the sound is delayed by like ~27ms but that doesnt change the sound as it is not adding an additional delayed signal 30ms after the original (like a delay pedal would). Its like saying that you would sound different if you shouted something to me from 30ft away as opposed to 10ft away just because its being delayed ~30ms.

I think that woody has the right approach. Although if you are still seeking more projection and dont mind risking your lows in the process maybe you could try removing the back cover on your cab. I've heard this increases the spread of the sound as well as lowering the bass response. I dont know how legit this is but its what i've heard. I suppose the closed back cabs are more directional.

This could sound sh*t with your g-flex though...who knows. Good luck anyway

 

[mikey383]

Remember if an amp is 30 feet away from your ears, you've effectively just added a 30ms delay to your sound.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I did not know this - I did the math to figure out if that was right, and came up with 0.88 ms/foot - so 30 feet comes to 26.4ms. Interesting stuff. Thanks for getting my brain working this morning.

 

[woody777]

Past 30 feet is for the PA... make your tone sound good from cab to mic and let the soundman do the rest.

Dang... I was in a pissy mood last night! Sorry if I came off a bit like a dick... I meant to add IMO, YMMV, blah, blah, blah.

But if you are playing a room that's big enough for your sound to project 30+ feet... then let the PA do the work for you. That's what it's there for.

Also, are you just listening to your guitar by itself? I always find that things sound so different with the rest of the band and even with people in a room compared to an empty room.

My best advice would be to always listen to your guitar tone in context with the rest of the band. You might dial in a killer tone at home and then get completely buried at the gig.

And trust your sound guy! If your band is serious... try to recruit a buddy to be your sound guy. Even if he's not the best, he can learn and having a mediocre sound guy who knows your music can be better than a great sound guy who doesn't give a crap!

 

[jab]

boogie1:

what's your opinion of the Sennheiser mic you are using? I am using an sm57 and have this same complaint you do. I was going to try a Sennheiser instead because I hear 57's have a bit of that muddiness problem. Doesn't seem to have fixed your problem though.

Also, do you not like your actual amp's sound 30 ft. away, or do you not like your amp's sound mic'd through the pa from 30 ft away?

 

[nemesys]

Taking advantage of the PA is good advice. Guitar cabs tend to be pretty directional. If that's not an option, you might try something like Weber Beam Blockers, which will diffuse your sound a bit better. Also, turn your midrange up if it isn't already, especially on your dirty sounds -- the guitar is a midrange instrument, and where a scooped mid might sound nice playing by yourself, it can get lost in the mix pretty easily. Maybe back off the gain a bit, crunchy cuts through better than fuzzy. You may already have done some of this, or tried it and not liked the result, disregard if so, I just thought I'd throw it out there...[/url]