Help me love my ED...

[J.J]

I thought you guys were all being a bit precious about temperature before I got my ED. I don't think that any more :mrgreen:

These amps do run hot, certainly hotter than any other tube amp I have owned. The combo is worst off and it stikes me as more than odd that Mesa decided that the Lone Star and MKV with their 4 6l6 tubes needed a fan, but the ED with the same 4 x 6l6 tubes does not need a fan ? The ED head is the only one out of all these amps which has the tubes pointing up and allows a better path for the heat to get out, not that it runs cool.

At the moment I have a 60mm (2.5") fan jammed in the side of my ED head with an external power adaptor to run it. It puts out hardly any air, but keeps it cool enough after a few hours of running that you can hardly feel any heat anywhere. Next time I have the head apart I will permanently mount the fan just under the top grill and if possible power it from the amps internal power supply.

My amp is only a few months old now, but it does get played for about 2 hours a day every day and I will be getting a spare set of tubes in the next few months for that rainy day :roll:

 

[Gordybaby]

It' funny you mention the fan. I have had the the chassy out of my combo several time trying to figure out whats wrong and there is a spot the is marked fan so i put a volt meter across the terminals and was reading 12 v. They for watever reason decided that a fan wasn't neccessary. You could always add one i guess.

 

[J.J]

Hey, good spot. That will make things much neater and easier. I had wondered if some of the Mesa amps shared a common transformer, maybe they do.

Another reason I want a fan is that I don't like puting the cover on while things are hot which means I have to wait for the amp to cool down before I can pack it up.

 

[DWAKO]

I feel your pain in regards to harshness coming from the ED. I've found this to be pretty common with a lot of Mesas, but recently I've discovered it more attributed to V30 speakers then the head itself. I swap out my V30s out with G75s and I was much happier with the result. However.....

Last night my band played a show and for whatever reason the sound guys didn't want to mic our cabs :x so I had to crank the loudest I've ever had to crank my dyne. I was near the 2 o' clock region. (thank God I wear ear plugs) and its tone was pretty terrible at that level... So much middy crackle and I lost all percussive attack... It made me want to sell it on the spot. Keep in mind I play for a modern rock band with some pretty aggressive riffs. I did everything I could to get it to sound good, I threw a Tube screamer in front to help tighten it up but to no avail. It was quite possibly some of the most frustrated I've been in a while with my tone. I pray to God that I won't EVER have to turn that load again... But I'm not going to lie, it made me lose faith in my dyne and pushed more closer toward getting a RA-100. I don't use vintage tones, I brought the ED because I loved it's clarity and thickness, but the lack of that percussive element, buzzy mids, and harshness at high volumes is making me reconsider. :|

 

[YellowJacket]

I feel your pain in regards to harshness coming from the ED. I've found this to be pretty common with a lot of Mesas, but recently I've discovered it more attributed to V30 speakers then the head itself. I swap out my V30s out with G75s and I was much happier with the result. However.....

Last night my band played a show and for whatever reason the sound guys didn't want to mic our cabs :x so I had to crank the loudest I've ever had to crank my dyne. I was near the 2 o' clock region. (thank God I wear ear plugs) and its tone was pretty terrible at that level... So much middy crackle and I lost all percussive attack... It made me want to sell it on the spot. Keep in mind I play for a modern rock band with some pretty aggressive riffs. I did everything I could to get it to sound good, I threw a Tube screamer in front to help tighten it up but to no avail. It was quite possibly some of the most frustrated I've been in a while with my tone. I pray to God that I won't EVER have to turn that load again... But I'm not going to lie, it made me lose faith in my dyne and pushed more closer toward getting a RA-100. I don't use vintage tones, I brought the ED because I loved it's clarity and thickness, but the lack of that percussive element, buzzy mids, and harshness at high volumes is making me reconsider. :|

You were probably overdriving the hell out of the G12T-75s. They are a lower efficiency speaker with a looser cone so they can really start to crunch with a lot of volume. Nothing beats running a halfstack or fullstack at a large unmic'd venue. Running a 4 x 12 with a mix of v30s and c90s would allow for more speaker efficiency and projection. I can't even fathom how loud one of these amps would be with the volume at 2! Does your drummer pound the SNOT out of his kit? You could also have an ED 2 x 12 extension cab loaded with c90s for these desperate situations!

I find with my Dual Rectifier, I have the opposite problem. I hate the tone at low volumes, but when I crank it up, it becomes everything you say you like for modern rock. Punchy, percussive, tight, and aggressive like crazy. What I don't like about the amp (and why I'm considering an ED) is the fact that it doesn't really hold up so well with the vintage tones! Plus, I never need the sort of power the Dual puts out.

 

[JOEY B.]

I feel your pain in regards to harshness coming from the ED. I've found this to be pretty common with a lot of Mesas, but recently I've discovered it more attributed to V30 speakers then the head itself. I swap out my V30s out with G75s and I was much happier with the result. However.....

Last night my band played a show and for whatever reason the sound guys didn't want to mic our cabs :x so I had to crank the loudest I've ever had to crank my dyne. I was near the 2 o' clock region. (thank God I wear ear plugs) and its tone was pretty terrible at that level... So much middy crackle and I lost all percussive attack... It made me want to sell it on the spot. Keep in mind I play for a modern rock band with some pretty aggressive riffs. I did everything I could to get it to sound good, I threw a Tube screamer in front to help tighten it up but to no avail. It was quite possibly some of the most frustrated I've been in a while with my tone. I pray to God that I won't EVER have to turn that load again... But I'm not going to lie, it made me lose faith in my dyne and pushed more closer toward getting a RA-100. I don't use vintage tones, I brought the ED because I loved it's clarity and thickness, but the lack of that percussive element, buzzy mids, and harshness at high volumes is making me reconsider. :|

You need to completely re-think your tone controls as well as presence and gain, when the power section is pushed that hard.http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=50304 It's funny how our ears work, as one persons' lack of percussion is another ones' power tube grind. The RA-100 will not solve the lack of percussion problem.

 

[J.J]

I fully agree with the above two posts. I have had my ED at 2:00 through a single V30 (only in 45 watt mode) and was pleasantly surprised by what I heard. The V30 seems to sound better and better as volume goes up. You definately do need to re-adjust EQ. Winding the presence back will help it stay in control.

I doubt the RA-100 will fix things, I am expecting that it will have a virtually identicle power stage. The RA-100 may well suit what you are doing better though, but I thought it was still aimed at the vintage side of things.

It is worth noting that even given a speaker like the G12T75 which is rated to 75 watts, that by the time you get to 20 watts will already be far from clean. You are would have been close to 100 watts or 50 watts for a two speaker cab.

I find that the C90 is one of the more consistent speakers, in that they stay cleaner for longer than the other Celestions I have tried. Still I will use diferent speakers and conbinations depending on volume level.

If I can't get the attack I want, so far is has been casued by to much bass making things muddy especially in vintage low mode.

Hope you find a solution to you troubles soon...

 

[primal]

On the few occasions I have pushed my ED that hard, it has sounded superb.

 

[J.J]

Just remembered the main reason I upgraded from my Express. To my ears, the Express tone just got worse with volume and didn't cut it at gigs for me. The ED is the opposite and just gets better at high volume for me.

 

[YellowJacket]

Just remembered the main reason I upgraded from my Express. To my ears, the Express tone just got worse with volume and didn't cut it at gigs for me. The ED is the opposite and just gets better at high volume for me.

Ok, so you use the Express as a tube practice amp and the ED for gigs?

 

[J.J]

Ok, so you use the Express as a tube practice amp and the ED for gigs?

Thats what I thought would happen when I got the ED, but I just find I use the ED almost all the time. I do take the Express to jams when I don't feel like moving the ED. I have a Vox AC4 that was also meant for practice, but by the time I get the tone I want it is way to loud.

The Express does have way more tone variety and does the singing high gain lead pretty well, but for the tones I want to use the ED makes me much happier.

 

[DWAKO]

Thanks for all the responses, Out of all of the responses I feel the fact I was using G75's in a such a high volume setting was most-likely the issue. Our drummer doesn't play loud, it the fact that the venue decided to only mic the kit and not anything else, therefore we had to push our amps pretty hard. As far as eq goes I always eq very conservatively, I never push the presence past 9:00 at any point, I keep the bass at around 9-10:00 mids anywhere from 10:00-12:00 depending on how much cut I want, and treble stays around 12:00 maybe 1:00 if I'm feeling a little adventurous. I also use Valve Art KT-66s in the power amp, they seem to help the headroom issue some. I really like C90s, I'm not a huge V30 fan but I do agree they can handle a significant amount of output. I played another show last night and sounded great with my master in the 9:00 range. I may just need an extra V30/C90 cab on hand for incase a similar situation happens again.

To each his own, amother mans trash is another's treasure. I guess I just prefer a clean power section. I do agree the RA-100 would be a better fit, but I'm not going to make that transition until I sit one side by side next to my ED and determine for sure it's a better fit.

 

[YellowJacket]

Shouldn't 90watts give you a clean power section!? You could always put what is it? 6550s (tubes) in your power section to bump up your clean headroom!

I think either c90 / v30 extension cab or even a c90 x 2 extension cab would give you the tightness you want. The G12T - 75s break up a lot at LOUD volumes and speaker distortion is **kind of** similar to power tube crunch in that it makes the tone more 'muddy' and less defined. (If you drop the gain down, you can get some great, albeit different tones) Speaking of which, I test drove an Electra Dyne halfstack and noted that at 45watts, the amp is already IMMENSELY loud with the volume running at 9:00. I think the more aggressive taper on that pot is to allow for overdriven power tubes, if that is what someone wants. The 90 watts is most likely for people who want to run the power amp clean. More speakers will give more projection which is what you want for unmic'd venues. Higher efficiency speakers will also give more clean headroom. Swapping from G12T - 75s to c90s / v30s will give a 3db increase which is the equivalent of swapping up from a 50watt amp to a 100 watt one.

I understand how you find v30s midrangey, ice picky, and ******. The v30 + c90 mix is definitely better. Have you looked into some high power celestions such as G12K-100s, G12T-100s, or G12H-100s? If I recall correctly, the G12K 100s and G12T-100s have the same aggressive mid scooped characteristics of the G12T 75 but you get that higher power handling which I think would mean less cone breakup. I believe is it the G12K 100s that are high efficiency and the G12T 100s that are low efficiency. Don't quote me on it though. Do some research and look up sound clips / power ratings. This should give you a good idea what these speakers are all about. If you go to the Mills Acoustic homepage, they link to a website that has TONNES of clips available. Best wishes on your search for tone!

 

[JOEY B.]

To each his own, amother mans trash is another's treasure. I guess I just prefer a clean power section. I do agree the RA-100 would be a better fit, but I'm not going to make that transition until I sit one side by side next to my ED and determine for sure it's a better fit.

I forgot to mention that my 2x12 is loaded with MESA Eminence Black Shadow MS-12 speakers for a total of 300 watts power handling. Clean headroom, you bet! 8) The RA-100 will not have more headroom at extreme volumes, but it will get that power tube distortion(lack of dynamics) at a lower volume, though. Maybe you need a Mark series Coliseum model? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[YellowJacket]

I forgot to mention that my 2x12 is loaded with MESA Eminence Black Shadow MS-12 speakers for a total of 300 watts power handling. Clean headroom, you bet! 8) The RA-100 will not have more headroom at extreme volumes, but it will get that power tube distortion(lack of dynamics) at a lower volume, though. Maybe you need a Mark series Coliseum model? :lol: :lol: :lol:

300watts worth of speakers!? BAHAHAHAHA!!! I bet it sounds pretty sinking awesome and clear.

Hahaha, Mark Coli or maybe a Mesa Boogie Triple Rec. The reborn ones are pretty awesome and they have that modern aggression in spades!