Help me love my ED...

[firefly1235]

Ok, a little background info...

I'm a Les Paul Marshall guy from way back, a JTM45 half stack and a 70's LP Standard with a TC G-System and a few odd boosts has been my rig ever since I started gigging.

In the last few years two things have happened:
1. I realized that a non master volume amp for small club/bar gigs is just retarded
2. I've been getting into more contemporary music, more specifically, instrumental rock and Dream Theater (Satch, Vai, Timmons.....Dream Theater :lol: )

So I went out with the intention of buying a new amp, I plugged into a Lonestar (special), and it was over. From that moment, I was a boogie man...
Gigged with the LS for a couple years but then I started gassing for a new amp right around the time of the ED's release. It seemed like the perfect amp for me, the old world tone and dynamics of a Marshall with all the reliability, features and BALLS of a Mesa Boogie. So I took my Lester down to guitar center, plugged into one for a couple of hours and left with and ED 1x12 combo.

Ok, your more or less caught up with my Boogie career, time to move onto the issue at hand.
When I was testing the ED out, I was in the platinum room of Guitar Center. I was playing plenty loud but the master never got past 10:00 and was using the suggested EQ setting. It sounded freaking great (probably the reason I bought it)

But I get home and play around with it a bit, and I feel like I need a little more juice so I bump the gain up to just before the clean channel starts clipping (w/ the gain trim set to clean, the volume knob ended up at about 3:00). This however is still not enough for me, so I turn to the master volume, I open her up (master at around 12-1 o clock) and everything I like about my brand new amp vanishes. It just gets so bright and clanky sounding when the master gets cranked up. It sounds to me like all the low harmonics get completely choked off. This is even more disturbing considering that I read almost daily about how amazing this amp sounds cranked up. So that's the rock and the hard place, I can leave the master low and not have enough gain (and possible not be heard over the rest of my band) or crank it to get the extra gain and Db, but lose the tone that I like.

I just don't get it. I suppose it's possible that the LS drive channel has just spoiled me with the thickest, fattest lead tone ever, but I plug into my old JTM every once in a while and it still sounds awesome.
So am I doing something wrong? There's nothing wrong with the amp, but it's possible there's something wrong with me :lol:

If you guys could weigh in on this issue that would be very helpful, I am just about ready to put her up for sale, but I desperately want to be talked out of it and taught how to coax the great tones that you fellas get out of these amps.

 

[Laskyman]

I use a boost to send the gain channels a little beyond the capabilities of the amp by itself- a TS style adds a layer of gain and helps "tame" the bottom a bit- it also helps establish more of a fluid lead tone- but to be honest- I have never felt remorse upon turning up- the amp does come alive....I would suggest lowering the gain a little and using a boost to goose the front end, see where that gets you....definately experiment before parting ways...whenever I start "getting the fever" for something new, i just plug in and my GAS dissipates...hope this helps...

 

[YellowJacket]

Wait, I'm confused. How loud does your band play?
I ran an ED head into a 4 x 12 and with the volume at 10:00, it was face melting loud already. Shouldn't you get plenty of headroom for pre-amp gain type tones when setting the amp to 90watts? I also thought the ED had plenty of gain on tap for Les Paul type guitars. I was running stock axes with the gain trim switch set to clean and it was molten liquid lead tones and super fat crunch.

 

[firefly1235]

I also thought the ED had plenty of gain on tap for Les Paul type guitars. I was running stock axes with the gain trim switch set to clean and it was molten liquid lead tones and super fat crunch.

That is exactly what I'm going for, but I'm just not getting it.
With the gain at 3:00 and the master at 11:00 I get a really tight, really aggressive, really grainy lead tone. It does't even sound bad, it's just not what I want and not what it sounds like with the master much lower. What I want is a fat crunch from LO and a smooth, warm, cutting lead sound from HI.

I'll try the TS, I've got a Maxon 808 that would probably do the just wonderfully. However I'd rather not rely on a pedal, I'd prefer to just plug in and get it.

 

[Birdy]

You might have a bad tube maybe ?
You're sure that your not trimming your Hi/Lo channel ?

Man....like YellowJacket says....I get crunch/lead tones that just slay anybody
that hears the amp...me included.
I rarely use any boost/gain pedals anymore.

 

[J.J]

Also try turning the reverb off. The reverb can re-shape the tone and make it very harsh, but the kicker is that it doesn't sound like its coming from the reverb. The manual says so avoid high reverb settings for the high gain mode as this can overdrive the reverb tank which is what causes the harshness.

 

[tubby_cosmos]

Also try turning the reverb off. The reverb can re-shape the tone and make it very harsh, but the kicker is that it doesn't sound like its coming from the reverb. The manual says so avoid high reverb settings for the high gain mode as this can overdrive the reverb tank which is what causes the harshness.

Definitely look out for the reverb - at least set it to bypass the hi gain channel, it does mess with the tone under high gain settings.

If that's not what's causing the problem, I reiterate what you realized - that the ED is a totally different beast when you crank it. I've found I need to lower my presence and treble and raise the bass slightly when I really turn it up to get the same tones I use at bedroom volumes. As other people have noted, too, you get significant amount more gain at high volumes, which I love, but might bother some people.

I have to say, I never got truly liquid lead tones from just the amp alone. IMO, there's *just* enough gain on tap to get old-school Metallica tones, but not quite enough to play Vai or Satch stuff. Definitely try adding the Maxon 808 to your rig for those tones.

 

[firefly1235]

So I sat down with my ED for a couple of hours today and I'm starting to lose hope...on top of the general tone problem I now have some pretty serious cone cry when I play in the high register, I know that it goes away over time, but at this point it just adds insult to injury.

The level of saturation I'm getting is not even remotely close to the youtube videos of this amp (specifically the official Mesa demo) and the whole amp just lacks punch and thickness. The tubescreamer helps, but when I drop 2 grand on an amp I don't want to need a pedal to produce a tone that is acceptable.

I think I'm gonna sell it and get a Mark V or another Lonestar...the ED just isn't for me I guess

 

[J.J]

Did you follow any of the suggestions here ?

If you have checked that the reverb is not the problem and that the gain trim has not accidently been set to anything other than clean, then the amp has a problem. Probably a bad tube.

Might be an idea to take the amp back to the shop and compare it to the demo amp. At least you will figure out if it is your amp or you just don't like the ED.

 

[JOEY B.]

the whole amp just lacks punch and thickness. (

I would think that you MUST have a preamp tube issue. Compared to my Mark IIC+, the ED does not have quite the saturation, but will easily stomp the Mark series' *** in the punch and thickness region.

 

[firefly1235]

Did you follow any of the suggestions here ?

If you have checked that the reverb is not the problem and that the gain trim has not accidently been set to anything other than clean, then the amp has a problem. Probably a bad tube.

Might be an idea to take the amp back to the shop and compare it to the demo amp. At least you will figure out if it is your amp or you just don't like the ED.

The gain trim is set to clean, the reverb is off, and it sounds nearly identical.
I adressed the TS earlier, I simply don't want to rely on a pedal.

I'll check the tubes before I sell anything, thanks for all the tips...

 

[danyeo1]

Did you follow any of the suggestions here ?

If you have checked that the reverb is not the problem and that the gain trim has not accidently been set to anything other than clean, then the amp has a problem. Probably a bad tube.

Might be an idea to take the amp back to the shop and compare it to the demo amp. At least you will figure out if it is your amp or you just don't like the ED.

The gain trim is set to clean, the reverb is off, and it sounds nearly identical.
I adressed the TS earlier, I simply don't want to rely on a pedal.

I'll check the tubes before I sell anything, thanks for all the tips...

If you have the master on 1 Oclock and you're not deaf, then something is up. The amp is VERY loud when the master is at 10 Oclock. But i use a pedal to get the gain i want. It's not about relying on a pedal, it just helps bring it out.

 

[Gordybaby]

I feel your pain man. I purchased my ED a year ago, loved it first couple of gigs it was wonderful. Had some power tube problems still under warranty no problem. Installed new and was back to normal. Next practice speaker started rattling. New speaker no questions. Band practice before a gig volume issues. Usually gig with volume at 2:00 and Master between 9:00 and 10:00 Usually around 10 our singer start asking me to turn down. But before the show I am running the same settings with the master up to 11:00 and am barely keeping up. So before the gig I stop at the store were I bought my ED and by a quad of 6l6's pop them in and sound check. Everthing is back to normal. 2 weeks later back to having to crank it up to noon. So I have been on the phone with Mesa and they say to send it back and they will check it out. In the mean time I have been using my modded stiletto ace which I now love so I havent got around to sending my ED back. Maybe you have the same problem. When I first bought the ED I had never been so satisfied with my tone. No effects except a little delay in the loop. I loved the fact I could sound check in about 2 minutes and be ready to play. But now I dont trust it to gig with. So I need to pack it up and send it back and see whats up. I have replaced all 4 power tubes twice the speaker once and all the preamp tubes with no lasting fix. This is my 4th mesa and they all have been ungodly loud except this one. Like most mesa's this thing should sing when cranked but it just sound harsh. I will let you know what I find out.

 

[YellowJacket]

Tubes cooking in 2 weeks? Unreliability? This just seems weird and entirely un-mesa. My old 93' Dual Recto Rev F is ungodly loud, reliable as a Toyota Hilux, and just keeps going.

Firefly, maybe try a couple of other Mesas. A Dual Rectifier Reborn equipped with EL-34s is going to give you a much larger and wider crunch, especially on Modern. Vintage will give you super saturated lead tones and you can keep pouring on the gain. The rhythm tone from my Dual Rev F (2 channel) has a crispness, aggression, and breadth that an Electra Dyne can't hope to have. By comparison, the 'Dyne has this more marshall-esque mid focus to the tone, as well as this nice liquid quality. They're both great amps, but decidedly different flavours of tone. I don't have much experience with a Mark V but I'm told they are amazing metal amps. Much more nimble and responsive than a Dual.

 

[tubby_cosmos]

I feel your pain man. I purchased my ED a year ago, loved it first couple of gigs it was wonderful. Had some power tube problems still under warranty no problem. Installed new and was back to normal. Next practice speaker started rattling. New speaker no questions. Band practice before a gig volume issues. Usually gig with volume at 2:00 and Master between 9:00 and 10:00 Usually around 10 our singer start asking me to turn down. But before the show I am running the same settings with the master up to 11:00 and am barely keeping up. So before the gig I stop at the store were I bought my ED and by a quad of 6l6's pop them in and sound check. Everthing is back to normal. 2 weeks later back to having to crank it up to noon. So I have been on the phone with Mesa and they say to send it back and they will check it out. In the mean time I have been using my modded stiletto ace which I now love so I havent got around to sending my ED back. Maybe you have the same problem. When I first bought the ED I had never been so satisfied with my tone. No effects except a little delay in the loop. I loved the fact I could sound check in about 2 minutes and be ready to play. But now I dont trust it to gig with. So I need to pack it up and send it back and see whats up. I have replaced all 4 power tubes twice the speaker once and all the preamp tubes with no lasting fix. This is my 4th mesa and they all have been ungodly loud except this one. Like most mesa's this thing should sing when cranked but it just sound harsh. I will let you know what I find out.

Definitely keep us posted. I've had some problems cooking power tubes, too! No volume reduction, but a lot of fizzing and popping that wasn't fixed with preamp tube replacement, but WAS fixed with power tubes. I wonder if Mesa's got the bias set to hot on these amps...

 

[Analog Kid]

Try a patch cable on the fx loop and see if it does anything. I was having an issue that was solved by that.

 

[Laskyman]

Ever since recording with the Dyne- I also now identify a very prominent treble coming from the amp- I never really noticed it before playing live or around the house, but now I hear it all of the time...

As for power tube problems, my first 112 combo had serious power tube problems- lightning and no sound, literally burning the tube into the socket- so yeah, there is definatelly something there with a power tube issue....

 

[primal]

Wow, definately something up with the amp.

Don't just swap tubes yourself, it is under warranty, bring it to a tech.

If I turn mine up anywhere beyond 9 with the hotplate off, I'm drowning everybody out.

 

[primal]

One more thing to add.

I think the biggest flaw in this amps design (BY FAR), is the lack of a fan. And I have to wonder if this is not atleast partially to blame for some problems.

When I first got this amp and jammed with it for a little, I noticed the front face plate got ungodly hot. Without a fan the heat from the tubes just rises into the electronics. And there is also no vent above either. Very poor design choice in my opinion.

But as soon as I noticed that, I went out and bought a cheap fan and have always run it behind my ED. It never gets even warm anymore

Here is an old pic back before I had my Axe FX and was running soundroofing everywhere.

This fan gets turned on before the ED, and stays on till after the ED is turned off 100% of the time.

 

[Laskyman]

Yeah- the lack of fan is very lame especially with the heat this beast generates- and no vent on top...poor design at best