Help a (almost) ex-marshall fella find his new home!

[blackoutshred]

Ok, yeah, shitting on Marshall JVM for good... now is on sale (why? just tired) and looking arround for my next big thing -been saving for it a year almost

I'll cut the chase here...

Mark V or Dual recto, that's all, sooo.

- is the Mark V loud enough, I mean, headroom, power, sustaine, roar, etc in a live scenario!? I know that the Recto has power to share. How can you compare them in this aspect? The reason why is that for me, the Rectifier is the best amp I've heard live (try it once at home levels and was not really impressed), the Mark at live... mmm good but not great (maybe because of the owner set up and eq). My real use is going to be 40% home use - 30% thrash band rehearsals (have to compete with my buddys Blackstar series one EL34 - simply a beast for loud scenarios, seriously!, at home use, not so much) - 30% Gigs.
- the Mark V has an Simul-Class Power Amp technology, is this as real as a true 90 watt amp like the Rectifier (100w I know) or is just a simulation that cant give that roar/power that we all know and love about 100w heads cranked.
- im a bit scared about all the Mark V options, to me is like a swiss army of an amp, so basically, great but this means that more things can go wrong. I really want a reliable amp that dont give as much headaches as my JVM did.
- for tone, the Mark V for the win (simply in love with it), the Dual Recto has an edge that I'm not a big fan of but I do like it, just not as much as the Mark or the JVM series.

Hope you guys can help me with this, whatever information you can provide will do.

Cheers.

 

[firmani99]

Well between the mark and the rectifier it is a really tough choice. It really comes down to opinion. I own both as well as a triple rectifier so I can comment a little. As far as the 90 watt simul class, it is a true 90 watts. After watching your videos, especially the second one, my gut reaction is that you would probably prefer the recto.

In a nutshell the rectifier sounds thicker and more massive. More "Disturbed, Korn, and Limp Bizkit." The Mark will sound awesome too but it is a little thinner and more precise sounding. It is also a little tighter so you may prefer that for thrash or speed metal. It just doesn't have the massive low end that the rectifier does. I have also heard that lowering the gain on the recto and running it with a boost pedal can tighten it up some but I suspect that is because the over drive pedals that I have used reduce the amount of bass in your signal and push more midrange to the front end of the amp. I could be wrong on that though. Hope that helps some.

 

[blackoutshred]

Hey firmani99, of course it help, everything

Hello all BTW, I didn't introduced myself, a bit rude.

You think so? I thought that the amp for me was the Mark V. I really want to like the Recto, I really do but for some reason I'm thinking of the Recto just because reliability and no for sound. The worse thing is that I cant check them up for myself cause they are no avaliable here.

Maybe the Roadster is a better option?

That tipe of massive low end that you are talking about (a bit flubby?) of the Dual Rect is exactly the think that I dislike a bit about it, cant really explian, I think is too much for me. Dont get me wrong, thats the think that makes this amp so powerfull live but at low volumen, dont know.

I use lots of low end but for me it's tight (not as tight as the Mark V I think).

 

[blackoutshred]

so if the Mark V is a true 90watt amp, how is compare to the Recto in a live situation? not just talking about volume but power/roar... Feeling that is very important to me live. Hate tube amps that sound thin and undefined when are cranked.

 

[firmani99]

The rectifier bottom end can be a little flubby but if you turn the lows down a little bit it will tighten it up. I am able to get some very good tight tones out of it but I think the mark will always be tighter. I have also found that the rectifier will sound tighter with a traditional sized cab. The rectifier oversized cabinet tends to get flubby with a rectifier when you crank it up.

As far as power I would say the dual rectifier and mark V are very similar. They both sound great when cranked up. They both sound very powerful.

All that being said the rectifier usually sounds more powerful and thick and the Mark sounds tighter. I would say overall the Mark is probably the most versatile. You can probably add an eq in the loop to make the mark sound even more massive if you really wanted to.

This video is a fairly good comparison if you go to around the 3 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j34U7k6mWzI

I am not crazy about how he has that sound dialed in but you can hear that the rectifier is thicker and the mark is more focused.

In the video though he has the Mark V set in mark iv mode. There is an extreme mode that is more powerful or "extreme" sounding and I think it can get closer to the rectifier sound.

 

[firmani99]

If you know you like the tone of the Mark V then I would go for it. It Sounds great cranked up. You really can't go wrong with it.

 

[Mungo Zen]

I have had the fortune of hearing my Mark V next to a Dual Rec Roadster twice a week for the past 3 years, and 2 years before that, against a Dual Rec Solo.

These amps are really great and any of them would be a nice for a wide range of music, however I feel that the tool box for the Mark V is broader than that of the other amps. This is both a blessing and a curse.

The Dual Rec is really easy to dial in a great tone on, while the Mark V may take more experience to get into. However the Mark V will be able to give you a much broader pallete of tones to work with, and has a few extra options beyond having 9 distinct tones.

I initially wanted to order a Mark IV but it was in the limbo between the Mark IV ending and the Mark V being announced. I looked hard at the other Mesa models and just wasn't happy with what I was hearing, but ended up ordering the Mark V without hearing it first. However, when I plugged it in for the first time (and then, like every other day after that for 6 months) I fell in love with the tones.

I have used the amp for Progressive Metal and Stoner Rock in studio and live environments now and wouldn't trade for another amp. In fact, I would likely buy a second Mark V before buying a different Mesa amp.

The Mark V and the Dual Rec compliment each other really nicely BTW. and swapping to EL34 gave it a more British tone. If you listen to a Royal Atlantic you can get an idea of what that would sound like as it comes stock with EL34s.

 

[blackoutshred]

hey guys! thanks for all the replies, they helped alot, believe me...

So, this the situation now. I'm between the Roadster and the Mark V and basically my concerns now are (this is the final clash I promise):

1- reliability (in theory I think the Roadster would be a little better, the mark has so much things that can go wrong)
2- sound in a live application (think Roadster beats the hell out of the Mark from what I've heard, so much power on top)
3- low volumen response (for home practice I think that the mark takes the cake here, more power options and better sound suitable to that specific situation)
4- solo tone (fluid sound - Mark takes it here but, how well the Roadster perform here? good enough?)
5- versatility (both are, so no inquiries there)

so sr, whats your opinion?

 

[Mungo Zen]

To comment on your points:

1 - All Mesa amps are reliable. I have one of the first Mark V produced and in the past 5 years have only required regular tube replacement. Yes, issues come up (I assume, I haven't had any) but, I really don't see one amp having greater likely-hood of failing at any time.

2 - If you are looking for volume, you have more than enough. If you are thinking about tone quality at higher volumes, the Mark V sounds better when cranked (at 90 watt full power).

I have played well over 100 shows since I got the Mark V and I have never had an issue with stage volume or presence when compared to other Mesa amps. These are world class amps and they are all equal in quality.

Honestly, choose the tone you want to work with and trust that Mesa makes solid gear!

 

[firmani99]

To comment on your points:

1 - All Mesa amps are reliable. I have one of the first Mark V produced and in the past 5 years have only required regular tube replacement. Yes, issues come up (I assume, I haven't had any) but, I really don't see one amp having greater likely-hood of failing at any time.

2 - If you are looking for volume, you have more than enough. If you are thinking about tone quality at higher volumes, the Mark V sounds better when cranked (at 90 watt full power).

I have played well over 100 shows since I got the Mark V and I have never had an issue with stage volume or presence when compared to other Mesa amps. These are world class amps and they are all equal in quality.

Honestly, choose the tone you want to work with and trust that Mesa makes solid gear!

I would have to agree with this!

 

[blackoutshred]

ok guys, I heard you.

I'm going to research the web a bit more to finally decide, I would let you know for sure.

Thanks for your help!

 

[blackoutshred]

and firmani99... Now that you have the two heads, which one do you prefer and why? Today I'm leaning to the Dual Roadster (going back and forth, so difficult doing this without actually playing them)... Good thing is that the options are only two, clash of the titans Roadster vrs Mark V.

 

[Mungo Zen]

Have you read the user manuals? I strongly suggest doing so, as there is a wealth of information that will mostly make sense to you and perhaps give you more interest or confidence of one over the other.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/user_manuals.html#gpm1_2

 

[firmani99]

and firmani99... Now that you have the two heads, which one do you prefer and why? Today I'm leaning to the Dual Roadster (going back and forth, so difficult doing this without actually playing them)... Good thing is that the options are only two, clash of the titans Roadster vrs Mark V.

To be honest I don't know if I could pick a favorite. I kind of float back and forth between the two. If I HAD to pick one I would probably say the rectifier. But I'm not a tweaker, I usually find my sound and stick with it. No doubt the mark is more flexible so if you are a tweaker I would say the mark.
I am not playing in a band right now and haven't played out while owning these amps. BUT I can imagine that the MArk V would cut through a band better. I don't know that for sure but I highly suspect it after playing in bands for years.

 

[Mungo Zen]

http://youtu.be/gD_12owDw90

This is the prog metal band I play in. I am on your right side with Mark V and our other guitarist is on the left side with Dual Rec Roadster. I am playing through the Peavey cab in my sig, and the Rec is through a Rectifier Cab.

Recorded off the mixing board into pro-tools and mixed in post.

 

[blackoutshred]

hey that's great... kick *** sound!

I'm going to purchase mine in 1 month period, I'm getting there, exited as hell. I think that I'm sold to the Roadster, now is like 85% the recto and 15% the mark. The only question left for me is, how good both sound at home levels? either one I get is going to be used like 60% of the time at home volumes.

My Soldano and Marshall sound more that great at home levels, both are 100w heads.

 

[Jorn218]

I don't know if you posted it, but what cabinet will you be playing out of? I know that the Mesa Rectifier cabinets are a bit larger than a standard Marshall cabinet and do have a bit extended low end that needs to be worked with until you are familiar on how to tame it. The best real sound I got from my Dual Rectifier was when I plugged into a friends Marshall 1969AX with the Greenback repros in it. That cabinet sang perfectly with the Rectifier. Way better than the Rectifier cabinet.

I use a Rectifier Straight cabinet with the slanted baffleboard. Not the current one, but the 90's style where the entire board is set at a slant like a Marshall B cab. I prefer these to the Mesa Rec. top cabinets as the extended low end seems slightly more balanced and not a difficult to tame. I guess it is less angles inside the cabinet for the sound waves off the back of the speakers to bounce around against. Really though, the Dual rectifier just has a weird bump around 200Hz that needs to either be pulled down using an eq, or bring up the mids roughly where a Tube Screamer accentuates in its design to either match the Rec's 200Hz bump or be a little more prominent. The amp's lows will tame out then. Still though it isnt that bad and does sit in the mix well regardless. It just isn't a frequency of lows that is really tight like around 100-120Hz. A lot of guys who came over from Marshalls in the early 90's didnt like the tone compared to what they were used to.

Think of it like this. A Marshalls tone from low to high starts around 18" above the surface of the ground. A Rectifier starts about 18" beneath the surface of the ground. Marshall is like a sonic tornado, wheras a Rectifier is like a sonic tidalwave. Just have to look at them with different perspective.

Now with my Marshall 1960, I have loaded in it Eminence Texas Heats. The amp sounds ok, but not spectacular. My bass player owns a JCM800 1960A with the GT12-75s white label from 1986 that I use when we jam at his house. Through that my Dual Rec sounds like poo, and the cabinet actually fights the amp so when I let chords ring out the baffle board and the rear lid start to bounce and cry like blowing across a blade of grass in your hands, but a lot louder and not as high pitch.

You mentioned you were getting rid of the Mode 4 and I don't blame you at all. The only thing cool about those amps was the cabinet set up. Otherwise they are problematic and there is a chip on them that tends to go and when it does usually takes out the portion of the board it sits on.

Another thought. You mentioned the Mark V or the Dual Rectifier as your choice. Did you consider the Road King? Aren't they somewhat a combination of the best of the Mark series features as well as the best of the Rectifier series features? Expensive, but its another option that will set you in between and have the possible best of both lines? Good luck and I hope we can welcome you to the family soon.

 

[firmani99]

So I had some serious jam time today because a job canceled on me. I love both the rectifier and the Mark but I am pretty confident now that if I HAD to choose it would be the rectifier. It just sounds so massive.

 

[Given To Fly]

hey that's great... kick *** sound!

I'm going to purchase mine in 1 month period, I'm getting there, exited as hell. I think that I'm sold to the Roadster, now is like 85% the recto and 15% the mark. The only question left for me is, how good both sound at home levels? either one I get is going to be used like 60% of the time at home volumes.

My Soldano and Marshall sound more that great at home levels, both are 100w heads.

I have a Roadster 2x12 Combo and it is fine for home levels. In fact, if you set the amp up as follows: 50 watts on each channel, tube tracking, FX Loop engaged, and Spongy you could practice at midnight with people sleeping in the adjacent room. Part of this has to do with the Roadster Combo's sound projection being super directional and the other part has to do with the FX Level and Output Level acting as two Master Volumes. These are extreme settings and rarely ideal, but they are there is you need them. The Roadster has always been both my quietest and loudest amp. I also owned a Mark IV for a period of time and while it was a great amp that sounded good at home levels, it could never be as quiet as the Roadster. There are a million other reasons I would recommend a Roadster but the fact it can be played so quietly is a nice bonus.

The Roadster is sort of like the second cousin twice removed from the Dual Rectifier family. Channels 1 and 2 plus the Reverb unit are lifted straight from the Lonestar. In other words, Channels 1 and 2 sound like the Lonestar and as far as clean tones go that is a very very good thing. Channel 3 on Vintage Mode is where the Roadster wanders through Mark Series lead tone territory and convinced me to sell my Mark IV. The lead tone is not as smooth as a Mark Series, there is a little bit of an edge to it, but its smooth enough for my preferences. Channel 4 is a brighter version of channel 3 (Channel Cloning is used on Channels 1/2 and 3/4). Overall, its a warmer, darker amp than the rest of the Rectifier family.

The Road King is also an option but thats an amp I feel people need to make up their own minds about. Fantastic amp, but maybe not the friendliest introductory amp to the Mesa Boogie family.

Good Luck!

 

[blackoutshred]

thank you so much for your good wishes guys!

and to answer your yestions, I'm going to play, likely the Roadster, (lets see what happend) through a Marshall 1960A Dave Mustaine Sig cab, if you ask me, best cab in the planet!

and Given To Fly, great post, helped a lot in my final decision but...

One question tho, what the heck is this Roadster switching lag/latency and loud pops thing? I mean, I do know what is it, but, is this issue addressed? could be a deal breaker for me (specially that latency thing cause the pops I already know how to "fix it", pressing through every channel before turning stand-by off)

It would be bad news for me cause I play yestarday through a Triple Rec and love it, even at low volumes.